PlaneShift
Development => Development Deliberation => Topic started by: Dark Energy on May 25, 2018, 07:42:58 am
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I have been pondering this idea of PlaneShift becoming a blockchain based decentralized MMORPG.
The benefits would be countless, enough to say the self-sustained economics it would bring to the game.
Progressing at a faster level would be the best ever change that happened to the game.
We have a great role playing game, with loads of quests and story, let alone game philosophy.
I have some ideas to share but like to hear what you have to say first.
I mean this post to be a fire starter. So any ideas are welcome. I have always been in love with PlaneShift and like to see it go big and gold. It's time we Shift this Plane.
:love: Love and Prosperity :sorcerer:
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although a decentralized mmorpg would be interesting(if it goes beyond having instances hosted by players) I don't see how using blockchains would bring a self-sustained economy(presuming you meant that) to the game, well at least not anymore than there already is. A large problem with the current economy in the game is that essentially everyone has plenty of tria because there are plenty of ways to generate tria but not many sinks(places where tria gets destroyed).
I'm also not seeing how how a blockchain implementation would increase leveling since that would mean you would need to chance the game's code for that. Although it may be tempting to want that, allowing the playerbase to directly affect it may be disastrous.
That said, I have advocated for open sourcing (most) of the game's content and decreasing the barriers to contributing to the game.
I may be missing what you mean with what you said, if that is the case please do bear with me and explain.
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I have pondering this idea of PlaneShift becoming a blockchain based decentralized MMORPG.
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Some details, please!
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although a decentralized mmorpg would be interesting(if it goes beyond having instances hosted by players) I don't see how using blockchains would bring a self-sustained economy(presuming you meant that) to the game, well at least not anymore than there already is. A large problem with the current economy in the game is that essentially everyone has plenty of tria because there are plenty of ways to generate tria but not many sinks(places where tria gets destroyed).
I'm also not seeing how how a blockchain implementation would increase leveling since that would mean you would need to chance the game's code for that. Although it may be tempting to want that, allowing the playerbase to directly affect it may be disastrous.
That said, I have advocated for open sourcing (most) of the game's content and decreasing the barriers to contributing to the game.
I may be missing what you mean with what you said, if that is the case please do bear with me and explain.
In terms of drive and incentive, it would bring an environment with self-sustained worth because you'll be able to have your own unique assets and to trade those assets, knowledge, whatever for something tangible in both the real and the virtual world opening many possibilities, and I believe it would be much more than what we have right now.
Supply and demand would become a reality of this game, and new features become something eminently related to what the people of Yliakum want to manifest in the game(in terms of development and future versions).
Development would still demand the same fan-base and the developing expertise currently at work but it would mean an autonomous world of possibilities, a final world of real virtual interaction. I believe that's the future to come.
About open sourcing, I agree with you that opening up to it would bring imagination and pioneering qualities to this game.
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I have been pondering this idea of PlaneShift becoming a blockchain based decentralized MMORPG.
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Some details, please!
This is a good read I suggest you take a look.
https://plarium.com/en/blog/blockchain-games/
There are some good projects out there(chimaera for instance), real pioneers but no real open-source project.
Blockchain technology is taking the world by a storm.
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you'll be able to have your own unique assets
This doesn't need a blockchain implementation, descriptions and names can already be changed by GMs who occasionally play an engraver ingame to facilitate that, I would like to see an autonomous(where a player can do it themselves) way to do such however although it should retain the base description/stats to make sure there's no swindling of players.
If you mean the shape of items in game then it gets a bit more complicated due to the implementation of it, since currently (and I may be very wrong on this so don't take my word as true) meshes and textures are stored client side meaning that if you were to have a single uniquely shaped item then everyone would need to have the file for it, which means that it will bloat quite quickly.
I also do not think that if we're talking about shapes that players should be free to be able create them without staff approval, since it's open to misuse. The same could be said about descriptions and or names of items but I think they are magnitudes apart in the severity of misuse potential.
for something tangible in both the real and the virtual world
I think the player base would be up in arms about this, one of the major upsides of PS is that it's free, completely free and there isn't even a premium option.
and new features become something eminently related to what the people of Yliakum want to manifest in the game(in terms of development and future versions).
Two points about this, again I fail to see why blockchains. A change in how features are developped/who may implement them is 'all' that would be needed.
Secondly I believe this should be avoided. If this were a game without a specific world setup and lore then I would perhaps agree that it should be more open but even then I would be hesitant to not have a committee or something to safeguard the game.
As it is, since this is a game with lore and a specific world it's in this has the potential to be totally destructive. Unless I misunderstand what you mean.
it would mean an autonomous world of possibilities, a final world of real virtual interaction. I believe that's the future to come.
For a generic roleplaying game I would agree that it's desirable and an interesting subject. However for Planeshift it's not necessarily(since most of these proposed features can be implemented without relying on blockchains) and would in effect cause it to cease and turn it to a more generic and loose setting due to a lack of guidance.
From a quick look most project seem to use it for the currency, to guarantee ownership of items(so they can be traded outside of the game?) or to generate stats for items, which can just as well be handled by the server
There are some good projects out there(chimaera for instance), real pioneers but no real open-source project.
Blockchain technology is taking the world by a storm.
Well, from what I can see it seems to be implemented either as a currency or as a magic marketing word, since blockchain technology is "taking the world by a storm" . I'm quite cynical I suppose.
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I think the big problem in this thread is the blockchain itself, the whole conversation would be much easier if we just talked about decentralized mmorpgs.
There are some good projects out there(chimaera for instance), real pioneers but no real open-source project.
Blockchain technology is taking the world by a storm.
Well, from what I can see it seems to be implemented either as a currency or as a magic marketing word, since blockchain technology is "taking the world by a storm" . I'm quite cynical I suppose.
Blockchain is just mediasexy word, it's not that amazing at all people just hype it for no specific reason (i guess it's cause bitcoin or something). It either dies in few years or sticks to some communities to plague the world.
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I think the big problem in this thread is the blockchain itself, the whole conversation would be much easier if we just talked about decentralized mmorpgs.
Decentralized mmorpgs are hard enough to do right when one entity (company, individual, etc.) owns and operates all of the servers. I grimace at the thought of trying to pull that off when there is no single trusted entity (a base assumption of virtually all decentralized systems at some level or another). Literally every single interaction that's trivial to get right on a single-server MMO is 10x (or more) harder to get right when multiple servers are used to scale a single game world, and multiply by 10x or 100x again when those multiple servers can't be trusted. You also get into some weird questions with decentralized designs that don't come up when you assume a single controlling entity. For example, decentralization usually implies no single owner/authority (and most decentralized computer systems assume that at some level in their design), but mmorpgs virtually always have a single controlling entity. So what happens if there's a conflict between, say, 55% of the controlling population and Atomic Blue? Depending on the decentralized design, that might be enough to convince the computers that the 55% are "right" and that the game should follow that path - but Atomic Blue holds the rights and intellectual property of PlaneShift, so they're the owners and thus have the right to all final decisions. That's one of the easiest problems I can think of solving, too - when you assume that some of the people holding the keys to portions of the decentralized system might be willing to budge things around to cheat (duplicate rare items, increase currency balance/stats, etc.), it gets reaaaaaaally nasty.
Blockchain is just mediasexy word, it's not that amazing at all people just hype it for no specific reason (i guess it's cause bitcoin or something). It either dies in few years or sticks to some communities to plague the world.
I'm Ecthion Felagund and I approve this message. Vote Ecthion Felagund for no more blockchain! (Ok, maybe not entirely - it's a fascinating technology that has a lot of possibilities in a few areas... but I agree with you that it's freakishly overhyped.)
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Popping in to say that this is one of the worst meme ideas I've ever heard.
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This would be something like SecondLife but sans the tyranny of Linden Labs. :snicker:
Or, MineTest with server-hopping.
Although I like the idea of a “decentralized” virtual social environment — I'm writing a story, more or less, in a world with such a thing…
I don't think such a thing would be best for the PlaneShift MMORPG.
If Dark Energy wants me to discuss further about clusters of RPers and mutual world settings, then I shall.
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Just an update. what do you think about this?
https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/16/blockchain-gaming-gets-a-boost-with-mythical-games-16m-series-a/
And sorry I couldn't follow up on the topic guys, my bad.
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This would be something like SecondLife but sans the tyranny of Linden Labs. :snicker:
Or, MineTest with server-hopping.
Although I like the idea of a “decentralized” virtual social environment — I'm writing a story, more or less, in a world with such a thing…
I don't think such a thing would be best for the PlaneShift MMORPG.
If Dark Energy wants me to discuss further about clusters of RPers and mutual world settings, then I shall.
I like the idea of decentralization. It entitles independence and self-reliance since it creates a self-sustaining environment with opportunities for user created contents to be published and materialized inside such a world.
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I have yet to grasp what the blockchain will be used for in a game such as Planeshift. If the idea is to store player's assets in a blockchain to do away with the central server, you need to note a few things (based on my understanding of blockchains, which is far from perfect), namely that the idea of the immutability of blockchain transactions relies on the facts that:
- Adding a new transaction to the blockchain is a computationally expensive operation, hence using one would require the players to expend lots of time and processing power to add their shiny new plate armor to their inventory, rather than playing the game.
- Transaction validity is based on the fact that, in the case of conflicting transactions, the one that gets to go in the blockchain is the one accepted by the majority of miners. If at any point in time there are just 3 players online, that majority is just two players. How hard would it be for anyone to use two computers to insert any transaction they want to the blockchain? If just one player is online, how hard would it be for them to gift their character with every rare item and all imaginable wealth of Yliakum?
- To have a valid view of the ledger, miners need to have a consistent copy of the entire blockchain. If a player ever logs in to find they are the only player online, where from are they going to download the latest version of the blockchain if there is no central server? If the blockchain is stored on a server somewhere, how will it be protected from tampering while no players are online?
I hate being negative, but I'd say the game still lacks so many things, if you are a programmer good enough to implement a blockchain within PS, you would benefit the community a lot more by joining the developer team and helping with the current effort. Still, bringing in new ideas is always worthwhile.
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Blockchain is a trigger word, please use an apropiate trigger warning ;D
In all honestly, blockchain is still terrible technology. If we want to know why blockchains would be used in any case, we have to start with good sides rather than problems. So far, there's been only downsides on this thread. As of self-suistaining economy, i dont really know how would blockchains help on that.
As someone working and studying on IT actively, i'm way too unidealistic and cynical towards bloclchains and way too biased, tho it really doesnt habe s lot of case uses.
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Those on the thread may be interested in having a look at a new dapp on the STEEM blockchain called dlux. Good gateways to the blockchain are steemit.com (http://steemit.com) and busy.org (http://busy.org). The dapp is explained further at dlux.io (http://dlux.io). It at least demonstrates that a virtual world is possible using blockchain technology. The game could be run on the STEEM blockchain and then STEEM could be rewarded through game play.
- Nova (@novacadian on the STEEM blockchain)
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I just remembered posting about blockchain-based games.
Have you heard about NFTs? Games are taking off, and they're not even half what planeshift is.
It's a shame.
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Hello,
I still do not really understand what this is about.
Can you give some precise examples which parts of PlaneShift could profit from this approach?
Thank you,
Gonger
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I must admit, I don't understand this either. I've seen people suggest blockchain for Planeshift, but never any mention of how precisely it would help the game. There are no financial transactions, so how would blockchain even apply?
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Blockchain armor? ;D
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I also have no idea how blockchain would benefit the game and what it could mean for PlaneShift.
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Greetings! since the last time I started this post, a lot has changed and a new wave of communities have arisen around the blockchain technology. Now we have NFTs which stand for Non-Fungible Tokens and are widely used and being accepted in more and more sectors, and more importantly to us, the game industry is embracing it to the degree that we now have multi-million dollar massively played games, setting a new standard for everything else to come, and are so economically independent that development seems instantaneous. Please search "NFT video games" and let me know what you think.
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Greetings! since the last time I started this post, a lot has changed and a new wave of communities have arisen around the blockchain technology. Now we have NFTs which stand for Non-Fungible Tokens and are widely used and being accepted in more and more sectors, and more importantly to us, the game industry is embracing it to the degree that we now have multi-million dollar massively played games, setting a new standard for everything else to come, and are so economically independent that development seems instantaneous. Please search "NFT video games" and let me know what you think.
But you do understand that PlaneShift is not a game to make money with? When googling for "NFT video games", the first results seem to be all about money.
I would suggest you come to the next Dev meeting for a real discussion.
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Greetings fello Planeshifters,
Let's educate ourselves today (including me, but I've already started!):
What are they actually?
https://www.gameinformer.com/opinion/2021/03/17/what-are-nfts-and-what-is-their-impact-on-the-gaming-industry (https://www.gameinformer.com/opinion/2021/03/17/what-are-nfts-and-what-is-their-impact-on-the-gaming-industry)
Potentials
https://hackernoon.com/the-next-nft-craze-monetizing-mmos-for-gamers-wt2c339a (https://hackernoon.com/the-next-nft-craze-monetizing-mmos-for-gamers-wt2c339a)
On the Philosophy of why:
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/nfts-and-gaming%3A-a-match-made-in-heaven-2021-07-08 (https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/nfts-and-gaming%3A-a-match-made-in-heaven-2021-07-08)
Answering Gonger, I would say, it's not necessarily "Play to Earn" but actually a self-sustained model of evolving into something everybody enjoyed playing, and at the same time evolving.
Who wouldn't love a game he owns a piece of? I would love to have a sword that nobody else has, and might consider selling it someday because it's only MINE.
I believe it's an application worth pondering and discussion, specially with the DEVS, and I have reasons to believe it's about time.
New trends are not always bad, unless proven.
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This game isn't going to be monetized, though. It's free. Always has been, and always will be.
Getting in-game benefits (a sword that nobody else has, for example) by paying RL money simply does not fit within the concept of the game. You want a unique item? Come to an engraver event and pay 2 circles (ingame currency) to have an item renamed something unique. Ta-Daa!
There is no point in trying to introduce NFT's to a situation that is designed to not ever have an exchange of real currency.