PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: *Md* on December 09, 2002, 10:52:56 am
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Well i read on these boards there will be no pking (player killing) but rather things like duelling in an arena... i play another online roleplaying game that im starting to get bored with but the point is in that game there is both duelling and a pk system... the duelling feature is kind of boring and is hardly used... but the pking part is the best part of that game... a pk system is a lot of fun and this game looks great so far so a pk system in it would be awesome :)
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We don\'t care what you think, There will be no pk\'ing.
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Link, you are scaring everyone away with your hostile attitude! :(
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Pking will probably not even be considered until the game is totally finished. I\'d advise you not to waste your breath on the issue, since many before you have tried and have utterly failed.
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Originally posted by Aruneko
Pking will probably not even be considered until the game is totally finished.
Pking HAS been considered and it WILL NOT EVER be in the game, that does not mean some do not want it, it just doesn\'t work out
so NO free-range pking, no matter your argument (exception=guild wars)
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I meant that there will be no chance of it being allowed until then, because until then there will be no chance of fully testing the system to see if pking would benefit people or not.
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thanks for your opinion link... stop surfin this board all day and get a life... im not gonna search the whole board to see if this has been brought up im new here... and im not gonna waste my time if i can just post it myself... duelling sux pking is good... the game looks awesome pking would give it a nice boost thats all im saying if you dont like it shut the hell up :)
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If you want one of them hack and slash games look elsewhere. PS won\'t be one. No matter what you say or how much you beg. Hundreds of n00bs have posted a thread exactly like this one and it gets them no where. You waste our time by not looking through the boards for the answer.
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unfortunatly, there will be hundreds more to attempt to enlighten us with their fetish for pk b/4 this game is even playable.
such postings seem to be a sport of online games.
best practice i have found is to completely ignore them.
peace
xam
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I support PKing. as do many others who frequent here. BUT by now we realize the devs simply dont want it in the game. And most of the PK supporters respect that and do not constantly pester the devs with reasons why it should be implemented. In other words, just let it go, because like everyone else has said, no matter how much you ask for it it simply wont happen.
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I want free but restricted PvP... the Caverns of Madness, The Rogues quarter...
ahhh :(
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Yes, as most people have already said, I think it is best that this discussion ends here.
A decision has been made, and it will not be changed. This subject has been gone over, many times before. Feel free to read all about it, in old threads, but there is no need to bring it up again.
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besides, can\'t we all just slaughter each other happily during guild wars?
Jessyn
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To show even further how there is no way to actually controle PvP even the newest MMORPGs in development are not even including any type of PvP, not even duels. It is just impossible, no matter what you think, to ballance a game for both PvE and PvP.
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So many pesamistics ^^... UO, its pvp system was great... and monitorable. Its basicly just half baked designs and little thought given that makes PvP in the recent games so faulty and undisrable. The main fualt is that all teh power is given to the Pker, and the victim usualy has little chance to fight back and either runs off or just dies where they stand. In UO players that Pk\'d had a timer, if this timer on kills was exceded within a certain time or there longterm kill count was exceded they became irrivocably open to attack from other players without the same penalties being applied to there attackers and there names where permanatly red, not to mention city gaurds would engage them on sight (unable to bank anywhere but the ungaurded city of pirates(forgot teh name), and they had to do ALOT of work or play there char for along time with out PKing, (however there open to all attacks with no penalties for teh attacks remained in place untill they became blue again) before they could become normal.
The downfall of the PK system in UO how ever was that the class or skill system allowed the Pkers to be both very defesive and very offensive in play style, the infamouse Platemail halebard weilding grand master mages/Fighters combo (which they fixed shortly before i left UO for EQ, ie penalties on mana and spell fizzles based on amounts of metal armor worn during casting).
UO also had a bounty system a player if PK\'d could talk to a special gaurd and the person that last killed them was placed on the bounty list and the pk\'d player could put forward money on there head, some notoriouse Pkers had some very LARGE bounties, some bounties where so high that you could buy a large ingame house from the reward, how ever finding them and disposing of them was a rare occorance, and often PKers would kill them selves adn turn in there own heads to get teh reward.
EQ was the major deathnell of PvP, with its none PvP stance it turned MMorpgs from being some what exciting to exp grinds and item hording and large social chat channels (if you want that sort of thing go play on a FFMMORPG or MUD. Thing is people have become fixed with that aspect and therefore demand it so newer developers remove PvP in favoure for a easier to design PvE only environment and a feel that the mindless masses think they want. and most games with PvP in them are designed from the PvE viewpoint but then have PvP tagged on as a seperate server useing teh combat rules of teh PvE system which ultimatly makes for bug\'s and huge imbalance. In EQ PvP a wizard can take a warrior apart with Roots, nukes and snares in a matter of minutes, and the warrior is helpless, while in the PvE environment teh Wizard needs the warrior inorder to survive since a mob will take teh wizard apart with out the warrior being the meatshield and the warrior needs the wizards nuke to finnish the mob off and to root adds and so forth.
I think now days developers are affraid to give PvP a proper look, and would rather simplifie the game design and coding than stick a well thought out system in. Closest one that so far has succeded is DaoC\'s RealmvRealm system, however even it has its fallbacks, as most combat becomes mass charges rather than co-ordinated attacks and defences,... but its still a fair site better than most PvP of recent years.
I for one will always be an advocate for well designed, realistic PvP (of which i have yet to see a realy good system)... unfortunatley the average player and upcoming players are becoming brainwashed into thinking its nothing but griefing, negative, and un-needed... unfortuanatly I can see why people have come to think that... And for that the blame lays sqaurly on the heads of both Developer and Player.
And kendaro you statement is alittle arrogant... it is possable, no ones realy put the time or imagination into it to get it right. You have to think both like a PvEer and PvPer at the same time, unfortuantly this is never done. And most upcoming if not all MMorpgs im aware of have some form of PvP in them or another.
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Not arrogent at all. In the lates chat with Sony developers, the ones doing EQOA and Starwars Galaxy, stated that not even a duel system was going in cause it goes against the main theme of players cooperating as well as ruined the PvE ballance. They stated that as the class systems stood, nearly fully ballanced now, would be ruined if they had to go back and rebalance for PvP. So it isn\'t an arrogent statement I made but just restating what highly payed big name game developers are saying.
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I totally agree with Bigfoot, that UO had a full PK system that actually worked. The best part about UO was, you didn\'t have to worry about class balance. There were no classes!(the same goes for PS, which voids the Sony argument that pvp causes class imbalance.) I fully support PvP. Anyways, that being said, I\'m going to go with Princess Aelya on this, that we may want it, but we know that this is one thing that won\'t change.
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and then there are some \"we\'s\" who like it just the way it is now.
i do support pvp but do not partcipate in it.
i do not support pk.
peace,
xam
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if some people think it will disturb the game in anyway i dont mean that... pking is cool but there are people who dont like to pk... so just a little area where pking is allowed and most of the game just a part where you play in a non-pk evironment... it would be stupid if you could be pked anywhere in the game while your trying to do something that involves fighting in no way
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hi i typed out a big long message but because this is a crappy forum when i did an alt back it deleted my message so iam not gonna bother typing it out again so you can just guess what i suggested
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I totally agree with you Pencil.
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i saw game and its pk system was pretty neat too.
u cant kill players that arent 2 levels above/below u
if you join a guild, u r given a rank and you can kill whoever you want, b/c you have your pals to back you up
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Bigfoot,
I don\'t think it has anything to do with devs out there (not just PS) being \"afraid\" to implement PKing in their games. It is that they fundamentally believe that that concept is contrary to the game they are trying to build. It is like in Space Invaders, when you get two players, those two guys can\'t shoot each other, but in Atari Tank Battle the two players go after each other exclusively. It is just a different type of game.
- Vengeance
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Oh for cripes sake.
Link: don\'t be so abrasive (how many times will it be said? :P )
Bigfoot et al: what will happen will happen. The devs have the power,l not you, so it doesn\'t realy matter what is suggested if they say no
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Im sure bigfoot already is aware of this athelas ;)
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Kendaro i apologies its been a while since i visted teh SWG website seems SWG is doing away with open PvP, sept for the bounty hunter thing, but as one annoyed poster on teh SWG forums mentioned its pretty stupid being able to see a bounty in a bar, and being unable to do anything about it with out the guy leaveing and going out into pvp areas, Verants (now a part of that ugly beast SOE) logic has and alwasy will be screwed up.
I beleive that you cant have roleplaying with out PvP... thats not a fact just an opinion.
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The answer (as so many games have demonstated) is segregation of PvP. UO did this with the whole Fel/Tram thing, mirror worlds on the same shard...one with PvP, one without. EQ and severeal others simply put it on a seperate server.
The best thing to do would be make the PvP rules modular and selectable. You either run a whole server or just a zone with that rule set. Just notify the player before they enter and your all peachy. Those who want PvP go there and those who don\'t want it don\'t go there.
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Those who want PvP go there and those who don\'t want it don\'t go there.
I would adapt that to be: Those who want PvP can build a PvP game, and those who don\'t want it don\'t have to.
The PS team is the latter.
- Venge
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Originally posted by Vengeance
I would adapt that to be: Those who want PvP can build a PvP game, and those who don\'t want it don\'t have to.
Wow ... your touchy. It was just a suggestion that I think would all \'players\' happy. I have no fears that PS team will do what they want with or without my interjections.
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Vengeance, I wish to know why you deleted my post giving a suggestion of how pking COULD work. Heh if you don\'t want ideas, don\'t have a wish list forum.
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Originally posted by kinshadow
Wow ... your touchy. It was just a suggestion that I think would all \'players\' happy. I have no fears that PS team will do what they want with or without my interjections.
Polls and surveys have been done countless times in countless developments and the fact is the numbers for non PvP systems out weigh the numbers for those that want PvP. It is just that the small group of players that want PvP are very vocal about their desire to PvP. Their numbers are small but their voices are loud. This tends to get anoying, every five days someon has to bring up PvP once again and again try to explain how they feel it must be part of a game. The PvP issue is as dead of a horse as it could get.
Cyo, nothing that has been said hasn\'t already been said and said again. Someone always thinks they have a way to make PvP work but the fact is in all those that try, it fails. You must either have a full out PvP system and please the few or you go with a PvE system and please the masses. So far I have yet to see anything that has so called new to try that hasn\'t already been tried. So if Vengeance deleted your post it was for the simple fact this issue is trired and useless.
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Actually, I\'m suprised the boards went so long without someone saying something about pking...it had been a while :P
As for you cyo, you should know better 8o (jk)
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Originally posted by Kendaro
Originally posted by kinshadow
Wow ... your touchy. It was just a suggestion that I think would all \'players\' happy. I have no fears that PS team will do what they want with or without my interjections.
Polls and surveys have been done countless times in countless developments and the fact is the numbers for non PvP systems out weigh the numbers for those that want PvP.
The last poll about PvP was a long long time ago...things can change. perhap its time for a new poll? just a suggestion.
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I dont mean specificly here for this one project but over many projects all doing polls and in each of them PvP has lost. They are done of development sites, fan sites, and many other places where devs of different projects go to get public opinion.
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Cyonamie,
If I deleted a legitimate post of yours, it was inadvertent. Just post it again.
Sorry,
Venge
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And I wasn\'t being \"touchy\" about that other post either. On the contrary, I think YOU are being touchy to react so strongly to me saying that if you want a PvP game you should build one. :-)
The dev team as it stands now are almost all dead set against PvP. You might as well be arguing that we build it all as a 2d side-scroller. It isn\'t going to happen.
- V
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ugh.. there are a lot of games that allow PK, but in most of them all that happens is that the PKs hang around the NooB areas and kill them(Or something like that) , which really REALLY (Ad Infinitum) sucks.
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Erm.. oops... didnt see the second page :D.
My point stands, however. Most PKers (that I have seen) are just cowardly B***ards that get kicks out of killing NooBs.
And before anyone say anything, I didnt say ALL PKers.
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Post Removed
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Woohoo I\'m on my way to becoming not only the most Loyal, but also Longest Lasting fan!! WOOOOHOOOO!!!
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You wish Link....
See ya Cyo :P
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Link the longer you lick that area the longer your tongue tastes like a toilet bowl... no bum licky, or choclate brownie favour mining.
anywho on a lighter note, ive been playing on teh PvP server on teh european DaoC the last week, and aside from teh odd noob camping mass murderer or elitist \"sun shines from out our collective asses\" Nolby Pride guild members, most of us where quite civil, although I did have the odd urge to gank teh odd blue or green on occasion, but resisted.
Its the players that make or break the PvP sytem in games.
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we should have pvp because it is cool and i think it will work because it is cool.
hahaha j/k Im really against PvP, it just makes people really power hungry arrogant people sometimes. I mean, some people are nice about PvP, but some people can camp your body, so when you wanna come back to get your stuff, they just slay you again. Wheres the fun in that? :rolleyes:
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I\'m not really for or against PvP, I mean, It\'d be nice to slaughter everyone every now and then, you know, just because I\'d be able to...but other than that I have no use for it :P
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ah, theres that player attitude keirn.. slaughter every one because i can. That is the primary problem with PvP...
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There\'s nothing wrong with getting rid of some annoying people to relieve some stress, of course, if thats how everyone went by it, i\'d be in some trouble 8o
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Originally posted by Vengeance
And I wasn\'t being \"touchy\" about that other post either. On the contrary, I think YOU are being touchy to react so strongly to me saying that if you want a PvP game you should build one. :-)
The dev team as it stands now are almost all dead set against PvP. You might as well be arguing that we build it all as a 2d side-scroller. It isn\'t going to happen.
I think you missed the point of my post. I was not advocating a whole PvP game. I am usually not a PvP advocate and I generally do not seek out PvP games. BUT, I think that a good deal of games would benefit from limited PvP outside of Guild combat. It adds a level of intensity and danger to areas that need it (places of evil, arenas, etc.). Perhaps another solution would be to allow chars to run monster characters and restricted to special regions?
I believe that all \"options\" are good options. Allowing people to run different rule sets on different servers would be a bonus in my opinion.
Again, it was just a suggestion and I am obviously new to the whole PlaneShift community thing. As for \"touchy\", your second response was a little less \"bug-off\" than your first and I appologize if I my remark was premature.
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I think the point was that their not sure how they would implement it, also their busy getting the rest of the game up and they wouldnt want to dedicate a whole server to it, since their not gaining any money from this
Noticed your from texas...were taking over these boards :P
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Originally posted by Kiern
and they wouldnt want to dedicate a whole server to it, since their not gaining any money from this
I was talking more about SW dev , not the team running a server itself. Allowing an option or coding with it mind for future use is not the same as running a server with it. If someone else wanted to run a PvP server, I think some PvP fans might get together and run their own (or w/ specail PvP option, etc.) All options are good options.
I noticed the Texas thing too. What city are you in?
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ill try for the post again, anywho, i think pvp should be realistic yet restricted. u cant have power-hungry people runnin around choppin off every merchants head as they commute between cities. i guess after i think aobut it, that would be a problem if it was full pvp, people couldnt go anywhere with out bein jumped. i dunno, im doin a little thinkin out loud :p
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I\'ve not always been a huge fan of PvP or anything, and would most likely not be one to vote for the game to have one (unless someone can convince me otherwise) though I do however, like how they implemented PvP into Dark Ages of Camelot. For those of you who haven\'t played it, basically you start out as your character like most MMORPG\'s. You level, get stronger, what ever. Basically it\'s your own world and you never have to join the PvP part if that\'s the way you want to go.
You start off part of a realm. There are three realms, in each realm there are different classes, races, etc, but everything is pretty much balenced, so each realm has a healer, tank, etc. Then, only if you want to, you go to a large battle ground where you try to penetrate the opposing realms base and just go all out against other groups. It\'s a lot of fun, building up a group, then sending waves of attacks at the opposing realm. You try to sneak across or what ever, and then you keep trying. It was a really interesting way for PvP to be implemented.
I\'ll admit, for someone who wasn\'t a fan of PvP in the past, it was pretty cool. I think this is true, because it\'s not an individual type thing were one person runs around attacking everyone. You work as a team against another team. I was brainstorming that there are ways that PvP can be implemented with out the traditional style everyone always thinks of. But, since PvP will not be implemented in PS, I guess there is no point in exploring those ideas.
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Cyonamie thats why I suggested an area separate that pvp combat could be only done in this area... like towns and things you couldnt attack people... and if you went to the fighting area you could fight... so if your choice is to never fight then you never have to fight... if you wanna fight just go out to the fighting area... oh and if pking is such a bad idea and all... why is my post still on the top of this board with so many replies now?
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maybe we should switch topics to the language filter programs..
peace,
xam
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Well I wanted pvp and was disappointed when all the devs turned out to be rpg pussies, but now I\'ve realized it could be just as fun to duel in an arena against other players, that is.... if you guys do it right.
I think that if you guys make a players current status in the game affect how good he plays in the arena then we\'ll have problems but if you guys some how make the arena battles unreliant on a persons status in the story mode ur whatever you wanna call it then you guys might be able to make a fun arena mode. make this a real battle system and not just a leveler massacre. for example in and fps there are people who are good, they just can shoot good and have good mouse clicking reflexes and eye coordination (like me! :D ) people need to learn how to be good fighters then there are those of us who were born good (like Me!). This and not a player \"status\" should be factored into the game because it is an intricate and complex skill that is gathered and perfected over time. in short arena battles should be based on learned tactics and \"real\" skill, not earned points stored on the games server that kinda mix with real skill but really just make for unfair play.
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p.s.
link i was here way before you :D
you can keep the most loyal title. Hell I think they\'ll even give you Brown nose of the year if you keep that crap up
:P
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Yeah hitman, but you have to subtract all the days your NOT here.
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the worst type of fan, is a fanboy.... there rarely creative or helpfull, quick to anger, quick to stomp there feet in a hissy if some thing changes and deffend the developers as if the very sun shone from there posteriors.
And Link your are fanboy extreme
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Bigfoot, go to hell, I am not your fan anymore.
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You seem to be making a habit of telling people what they are Bigfoot :P (NOTICE: I have not left out the smiley this time)
EDIT: I should really learn not to post stuff at 5 in the morning
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Note: I thought this post was to end since the 4th post....
anywho.... seems like pk just seems way to much of a problem as people would make some character, build it up and go on a homocidal killing spree. Then everyone would be complaining about how people kill them, then the admins would try to resolve the issue by putting caps on it, then the pro-pk people would be complaining. So we can completely avoid parts 2-whatever, and not implement the thing in the first place. Thats my 2 cents about PK.
PS: Happy Holidays all!
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Link all those post counts but honestly... your nothing but spam :)
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heh ^^...
**grabs his bottle of chicken blood and satchle of lizard bones, dances like a voodoo priest around the thread**
this should keep this post alive, long after its used by date.
heh, ive only got a beef with link...
on a side note, got an email today from someone that made 2 quake3 skins for one of there custom models based on 2 designs of one of my own character creations ^_^... and some one emailed me a week ago asking for the use of some of my artwork on a card game ^^.
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Originally posted by *Md*
Link all those post counts but honestly... your nothing but spam :)
Shut up peanut.
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I thought you were leaving, Link?
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Nope, It was all a conspiracy.
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good thing for you the devs don\'t seem to want pking... i think i would kill you too much anyways :)
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OOooOoOhHhHh Kill me in a game that you know nothing about.... sure...
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Three words: What the F*ck?
Seems like some one needs prozac.
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Originally posted by *Md*
Link all those post counts but honestly... your nothing but spam :)
no no no, it\'s not spam, its called gourmet spam....
....some people
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I just hope this doesn\'t get as ugly as the GARGULI incident....
Jessyn
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thats what we call \"normal\" around here ;)
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i will find out more about the game when a more playable version is released... i hate reading im not gonna search thru these boards and read!!!! i will prob fall asleep ill just play it when it comes out
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Well if your not going to do some research on a project, This IS a project, then you have no business being here.
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Originally posted by Link
Well if your not going to do some research on a project, This IS a project, then you have no business being here.
If i wanted to be a dev im might be a so called \"PROJECT\" for me but i do not... reading sux :)... ill just play thx
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god i love this thread.
you can learn a lot about peeps here on a subject like this.
wonder how we will do with the language filter??
peace
xam
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No PKING! Noooooooooooooo! None! Please?
I hate it when I am playing something and happily prancing around in my elven leotards of +3 happiness and +2 rainbows/bunnyrabbits when some jerk comes along and decides he needs to take his pent up agressions out on me.
I could SEE it if they were PLAYING a villian -- but they aren\'t ussually, it\'s ussually some sort of holy-paladin kind of character... BAKA!
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Originally posted by Severed Hope
No PKING! Noooooooooooooo! None! Please?
I hate it when I am playing something and happily prancing around in my elven leotards of +3 happiness and +2 rainbows/bunnyrabbits when some jerk comes along and decides he needs to take his pent up agressions out on me.
I could SEE it if they were PLAYING a villian -- but they aren\'t ussually, it\'s ussually some sort of holy-paladin kind of character... BAKA!
lol... ok that was funny ;)
anyways... Pk\'ing is an intricate part of any MMORPG... it can actually make or break an online game... of course there will always be those little \'carebears\' that want nothing to do but hoard their pixelated treasures, and want no involvement with other people whatsoever. But what better way to get them involved with the rest of the community, by having a pk system... UO\'s pk system WAS good... over the past few years, its just gone down the crapper, with the addition of Trammel... and many other non pk elements added... although many strives are being implemented to bring back the old system...
Id love it if there was a pk system in PS, but I can live without it as long as I will be able to fight other online players :) Guild wars, and dueling will have to do for me... :(
But I know of many people that would flock to this game if there was a PK system introduced... actually im sure I could get a few without it... but these people live for pk\'ing... as do many...
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So very true,
and then after having thier pound of flesh, be off to the next game they could party on.
oh well..
pvp optional then u can play the game here or if u so desire go back to one of those better games.
peace,
xam
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Originally posted by Zerbean
But I know of many people that would flock to this game if there was a PK system introduced... actually im sure I could get a few without it... but these people live for pk\'ing... as do many...
And just as many or more will leave because of it...it works both ways
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If you want PK\'ing I know how you can get it. Just a secret between me and the people who want it though.
Go find a game with PK\'ing. That\'s how.
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Originally posted by Link
If you want PK\'ing I know how you can get it. Just a secret between me and the people who want it though.
Go find a game with PK\'ing. That\'s how.
Unfortunately there aren\'t many games out with a good pvp system :( otherwise id be more than happy to...
but PS looks like it could be good... guild wars and such can make up for a lack of a pk system ;)
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Ok, im not sure if this has already been asked... but how difficult will it be to start a guild war? I mean, if its as easy as setting up a guild then they might just enable PvP and save us the hassle...
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must be at least 5 or 6 beta\'s
\" looks like this could be a good game for pk\"
or some such verbatum as that..
so common think it is copied from message board to message board.
oh well..
keep those cards and letters comin folks.
peace
xam
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(sorry on the late reply)
lol, i guess your right link, I am away alot.
but thats only cause I use my schools comp and I have
a life outside of planeshift. not that you don\'t or
anything it\'s just i like interacting with humans in the
flesh some times (if yah know what i mean, he-he)
I also play other games, console games actualy.
speaking of console games, anyone play Bmx XXX, on xbox?
its fun but I think yah should steer clear of the play station version, no nudity. Its cool \'n all just for such a crappy bmx sim you need the nudity to help you play through this hard thing.
oh and need for speed 2 was ok...in the demo version!
The release sucks ass. For some reason they took out the \"zoom ahead\" feature and slowed the speed at witch you move. I mean the speedometer might say 300,
but it really looks like your taking a cruise down the strip. Also that xoom ahead feature, the one that let you see danger befor you hit it, was just about the neatest thing it had going for it also the screwed up physics had me trip\'n hit the edge of another vehicle at 90mps and watch how high and long you fly, also watch out for the spins (i once did a 4000 degree spin). I was really disapoint in need for speed and in the end all I was thinking was: \"What bullshit these developers pull.\" X(
Edited for language.
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If you want PK\'ing, then play TIBIA or something. It\'s very funny when you try to grow in levels and all of a sudden someone come and PK you, then they laught at you and tell you to \"come and get your loot\". And every time you try to take it he kills you and you go down to lvl 7 again. It\'s really funny! And then you try again and some other guy kills you again, and again. Yeah, Tibia is SO much fun.
Seriousely, It\'s much more fun to cooperate with people who don\'t wanna kill you for your loot.
Planeshift isn\'t for PKers, sorry :P