PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: corsairk8 on January 03, 2002, 10:07:23 pm
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Please give feedback on this poll.
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Well I think my vision of how PK should work is a bit of a few of those options. I think that there should be areas like arenas to have set as open PK. Anyone entering them do so knowing that anyone at all can kill them that is also in the arena. I also think duels are a must. This is mutual combat between two players and agree on terms of the duel. Then I also believe in an area in the outskirts of the world where things are completely hostile. Here there will be limits as well. It would depend on your alinement on who you can or cannot PK. A good alined can\'t harm another good alined and same goes with evil aligned. It would probably be a lot of work but I feel personally that to do PK right and give it meaning in a RPG there has to be a code and no one should just be able to kill anyone else without cause or rules allowing it.
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I played a game called \"Call of the Warlords\". In it, when you wanted to attack a country, you sent them a decleration of war. They could either respond to it, and start the state war. Or leave it, and the state war would start automatically after a set amount of time. I really liked this version, but it might be kinda hard to implement in a RT-RPG.
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:P You should have LIMITED pking. That means LIMITED. Arena fights (which we have) are a MUST HAVE as well as clan/ group wars.
As I posted on the old forums we should have some sort of Holy war between an incoming Cult and Talad and LAanx
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I would make it like Best of the Best in EQ, personally. Make things like tournaments in arenas possible, but otherwise not.
My enhancement to that idea is that maybe by doing well in the tournament, people would be rewarded with something. Perhaps a title like \"the Conqueror\" after their name or something so everyone can see how good they are.
I liked the idea someone had about only attacking players with opposite alignments (good vs. evil) too.
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The has always been my picture of the PVP system in Planeshift:
Two forms of arena exist
A. The Gamblers Arena
Before entering the arena each of the participants in the fight ante an item and agree upon eachothers items as an ante. They then fight in the arne, afterwhich the winner receives all the anteed items.
B. The Bloodied Arena
This is an arena geared toward showing your stregnth. The only money involved is the bidders on the fight. You could work out that a group of friends bid on you, and if you win they pay you but in general money is left to the gamblers arena. Winner of the fight gains nothing but Honor
In addition if two players decide that they will deul for a perpose, such as ownership of disputed land or something of that nature they must find a witness- a moderator - and the moderator will settle the issue based on the winner.
Players may also deul in public for the sport, but deuling is not allowed in the city. Both players must agree for the deul to take place.
what do ya think?
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BTW I look stupid
How do I gain devel status on these boards?
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I like the Arena idea, but i\'m still not sure how big these arenas will be
could you give the arenas scale measurements? (if there are any)
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think of an arena that you go see or watch a profetional sports game like football at... that is how arenas were used back in the day. so they are still going to be similar in size as the ones of today. able to seet many spectators and a play field(so to speek) able to support many participants....
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cool :) i like the idea of watching a guild war :)
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I would say PK all the way! If you\'re fighting a monser together with some mates, you\'ll have to watch out for them. if PK is not allowed you could just throw a fireball into your party hoping to kill every monster they\'re fighting with....
Thekkur
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I agree with Thekkkur Pvp should be allowed. Meaning anyone within 3-4 levels of a player could attack someone. This still woud protect a level 5 from getting killed by a lvl 10, or a lvl 1 from getting killed by a lvl 6,etc. Plus theres gonna be vigilant city guards.
The more danger involved in the game the more fun it will be. Please everyone support total PVP!!
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I think Kendaro once said that total PvPing scares off more people than it brings it, and I beleive he was right most people don\'t like PK
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i think you have that backwards a bit Thekkur... if there was total PK then you couldn\'t and wouldn\'t try and throw a fire ball in there. area spells would now do harm to your own group. you could be trying to kill a monster and wind up killing a member of your party. or maybe someone from outside of the group sees you in danger with more than one monster. he couldnt try his area effect spell to attackj them or he would just kill you trying... if you go full out PK you just end up making players not want to interact with each other. not by purpose but that tends to be the side effect caused. look at UO. full out PK and no one wants to work with one another. they all just want to do solo and powergame. that is completely against the way they originaly wanted the game to be played. after all it was ment to be a RPG but now it is just a kill em all thing. all out PK will kill the RPG aspect of this game FAST. it will be left to power gamers and griefers.
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i like the idea of pking all the way but lets say you have consent to the fight if he is not within 10 or so levels,
other wise some people who have beaten the role playing part of the game might just give PS up because it gets boring
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other wise some people who have beaten the role playing part of the game might just give PS
you must mean role playing as in quests, I hope planeshift will have a different type of roleplaying
Roleplaying in this game should be like acting, you have to play the role of your character, thus making the game endless if you are good at it
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there is nothing to be beaten in role playing.. you are constantly going to have new quests, places to explore, artifacts to find, and so on and so on and so on. it is a never ending thing. thing that would get boring to me is to go play a game for power alone. to just hack and slash my way through a game with no player interaction is a snooze for me. so what if i can do 396 points of damage in the blink of an eye. finding that lost city is more exciting.
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after you do so many quests or you \"act\" for so long it will get boring
and one of the things that i most like about these kind of games is that aftering you get bored doing quests and what not you can go and have fights with people which takes more effort and is exiting
especially guild wars
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Couldn\'t Guild wars and Player fighting be done in Arenas?
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after you do so many quests or you \"act\" for so long it will get boring
and one of the things that i most like about these kind of games is that aftering you get bored doing quests and what not you can go and have fights with people which takes more effort and is exiting
especially guild wars
thats what dueling, arenas, and guild wars are for. that has nothing to do with all out PK. there is an option to fight. forcing everyone to fight even if they dont wish to, would just push people away from the game. all out PK would make it so everyone would have to weather they like it or not. just running a duel system along with arenas and guild war options allows it to be a mutual thing between those that want to fight other players.
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so what your saying is that all out pking has nothing to do with what i am talkin bout
so you will have the pk areas all around and close to every place on the entire game becuse i might not wanna go all the was to an arena just to fight somone on the spot just for fun
what your saying will discourage pking altogether if i ask somone to fight and they say \"yes\" then i say how close the nearest place to fight is and what then if they say \"nm to far\"
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I like the Idea, \"Attack some one in a specific areas\". Why would it be any fun if you where in town, trying to buy some weapons, When... Some Lvl 78 Trying to kill you. That would be unfair.
There should be specific places where you can fight, and you can only be 5 lvls ahead, and below to fight other people.
Example:
Lvl 15, He can fight a lvl 20 (5 lvls above him) and he can fight a lvl 10 (5 lvls below him)
Thats a good way to stop higher lvl people from killing low lvl people.
Now lets say you want to kill a high lvled person. Well there would be other places where the rules did not apply. (Mostly in areas far away from towns)
A good way to use the fighting system on the first demo. :D
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I agree with Kendaro - full out PK is a BAD thing. Look at RS - for a while it was \"PK anywhere\" and it turned into an everyone for himself, power-gaming atmosphere. Even with the Wilderness (the only PK zone in the game) it\'s still pretty bad. While limiting PvP to certain areas isn\'t quite within the bounds of reality, it would encourage those who are interested in roleplaying, rather than power-gaming. There should be someplace to fight other players though, simply for roleplaying purposes, i.e. guild wars and arena combat. As far as guild wars, you could have one guild declare war on another guild, and if the war is accepted, members from either guild can attack members of the other guild anywhere, anytime (but ONLY members of those guilds). Of course, then you\'d have to have some method of distinguishing who\'s in what guild, and making it so only those players can be attacked, and blah blah blah... well, maybe it\'s not such a good idea.
What do you mean by \"declaring hostility\"? I assume that\'s the same as \"challenging to a duel\". Duelling should be included also, with the option that you can ignore all challenges, if you don\'t want to be pestered all the time.
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duelling can be held inside an arena. In arena\'s there might also be gladiatorplays, with prizes set by moderator PC\'s. To draw spectators to the fights items can be given to players who enter the arena (thinking of bread and games).
Another option for PK is to only allow player killing/damaging other players only when ENEMY is IN SIGHT. This would mean that you can accidently hurt players when casting a fireball onto a monster, but you can\'t when you cast into the other direction, as for you can only cast a fireball onto a player when an enemy is in sight.
It wouldn\'t be worth casting a fireball onto both another player and the monster just to kill the player, as for XP is shared with other players attacking the monster. This means the player that attacks the monster is your ally, and the sooner you kill him, the more work you\'ll have to do yourself.
Thekkur
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i like the idea of having to be within a certain level to pk in town and being able to fight anyone outside of town
but, i think, even if your very close to the town but outside the other person should have to accept a fight
but when your far far out it should be all out pk
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All out PK is for Unreal tourny.
This is a RPG and should think about RPing rather than gaining items.
I want to be able to explore a distant lands without fear of other players.
Fear makes people not trust each other, which makes them want to go solo.
I think Arenas are the best way to go, you can\'t really explore an arena like you can a distant land. Distant lands are meant to be explored by RPers but PKers stop that from happening, thus making the RPers shy away or turn into PKers.
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kendrick, isn\'t fear part of tough living? you can\'t call an adventurer someone who\'s afraid of fera... in real dark ages you\'ll have too deal with corruption, treason, and stealing too. battling a gang of evil PC\'s together with your friends can be as much fun as battling NPC\'s. as long as these robbers get the chance of organising themselves (by allowing them to set up bases in caves and so on.
ppl, look at my post! what about this line of sight system combined with a duelling system?
Thekkur
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I call adventurer anyone who seeks adventure.
problem with all out PK is it\'s very disorganized, PKing is good, and fun, but with PK comes RPK (Random Player killing) such as...
your admiring the giant mountians that stand before you, when a complete stranger runs up to you and attacks for no reason!
I think you must have a reason for attacking, not just running after a person because it looks fun
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how bout this kendrick (also to PS members)
there could be walls allong the paths to different places and these walls would be considered in town and there would be guards there as well
the same rules would apply for the paths as there was for intown
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there might also be player GM\'s that look for bad language/PKing without reason and other unsuitable acts commited by players.
and face it: PKing(or just stalking) in 3D online games occurs much less than in birdseye perspective games like RS.
Thekkur
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It is very encouraging to hear that you may include player GMs. I welcome this kind of policing, something that Runescape could have done with a lot more of.
Hopefully we won\'t need much of it, but you can never underestimate the idiots out there. No one should ever have to put up with harassment and abuse just because they are female or because of the colour of their skin X(
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player GM\'s can also add to the role playing experience. They could play hero\'s of which their deed are descibed in stories, that you can find in in-game libraries.
Thekkur
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I like the idea of GM\'s being heros Thekkur, but I reckon we need some \'undercover\' GMs as well, cause there\'ll doubtless be people who go silent as a GM walks by, then continue swearin or whatever and the GM doesn\'t know about it...defeating the purpose. But, if they didn\'t know the person they were swearing too or about was a GM...
As for the PK factor, that\'s one thing that I didn\'t really agree with in RS. A lot of people have something against newbies, so the poor newbies got beat up a lot. I agree that there should be areas of open slather, but I think that in the more travelled areas, the declaration and acceptance of hostilites is an excellent idea.
However, this also has it\'s bad points, mainly this...it will only work if people accept. The reason RS was changed is because about 75% of people had opted for non-PK. I dunno, I\'ll sleep on it cause it\'s 15-2AM (a quarter to two :P)
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if you want to fight someone and they agree, you wolnt have to go all the way to an arena. arenas are for group battles. if you want to fight someone one on one then just duel them. that doesnt take an arena to hold a one on one and no one else can jump in either. dueling is a working PK comand option that only lasts for as long as both are in the same zone and alive. a duel end when someone runs out of the zone or someone is dead. just target a player that wishes to duel with you and use a comand like /duel. the other player does the same and poof the two of you are allowed to fight each other no matter where you are. just dont be so foolish as to accept a duel next to a guard.
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We DO have a BLOOD THIRSTY population dont we...Most of you seem to want to attack ppl all the time...this is completely inapropriate. Clan Wars rock, so do Faction/ Religion Wars also duals and arena fight are neat. We should be limited to those, except in the Labyrinth...Its dangerous
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Ken, that\'s exactly what I mean.
Oh, and about fighting near a guard? Well, you\'d only do it once... :)
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just a question about guil wars
are we going to be able to have guild colors, so when in war you dont accientally attack a friendly
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wouldnt be needed cause you could only PK those of the other guild... not your own members....but on that note, i think it would be nice to see, like they did in DAoC, guild insignias and so forth.
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well i was just askin that because i thought that you would have the possiblity to kill anything (in specail areas) by accient or on purpose
are you saying that there is no possibilty of hurting a team mate?
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in an arena it is a free for all... but in a duel or guild war it is quite specific who you are to fight.....
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This might have already been said but I do not have the time to read all those posts.
In towns TECHNICALLY PKing is legal. You could attack a person within 5 levels of your own (town restricitions). BUT even though you can fight, a guard will pull you two apart and put the person who started the fight into jail where you have the choice of....
1. taking money from your bank account to get parrolled. (a cost of 500-1000 tria considering the damage done on the opponent)
2. wait for a friend to parrol you.
3. wait for you to be let out of jail (can last from a few hours to a whole day/ If its a whole day and you log out and stay out PAST your time to leave, the moment you log in your are told you can leave)
When you are in the woods not far out, or in the crossroads between cities, you can fight people within 10-15 levels difference. If a patrolling guard happens to see you they will attack you, split you up, and take you to jail. The charges may be a TINY TINY TINY bit less harsh because you are not technically in the city.
Beyond the eye of a guard you can attack from 15-20 levels difference, and since there is no one to split you up, you can fight all you want. Occasionly a guard could go for a drink and see you and POSSIBLY (VERY rare occasion) be scared of being caught and throw the beer on you and say you were drunk putting extra charges on you.
Anyone like this idea? ?(
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?( antonio why would you want to hurt a team mate? ?(
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PK should be allowed but, in the areas where low lev player start should have higher amount of Guards or something like that, so PKing on those areas is not easy
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Guards will kill ANYONE attempting to kill in the cities
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Guards will kill ANYONE attempting to kill in the cities.
GOOD. Those guards better be bad-ass, too - in RS they helped for awhile, until everyone powerful enough that they were using the guards to train on. They should be able to call on their friends for help too - being dogpiled by half a dozen soldiers should make anyone think twice about starting a fight in the city.
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dwinney to answer your question
i just thought that it would be possible to accidentally hurt people.
because thekker wrote earlyer that if we were team fighten like a monster it wouldnt be a good idea to throw a huge fire ball in there because it might hurt your friends
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yea yea, you all out PKers will change you mind when you die and lose all your stuff!
then you\'ll be like \"Change it, Change it\" or \"He Pinged me, he cheated\"
yes, everyones happy when they win, but when they die their like \"this system sux! planeshift Sux!\" because the same thing happend in Runescape!
Everyone was like \"i want a PKing area\" so bang, they got one then when they all ran out to explore BANG! they get pked now they say \"Andrew Gower is a loser, he\'s a crappy programer, booohooo\"
sorry I\'m in a dialogue mood
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yes...PKing in town is not encouraged. Well its not encouraged anywhere by me!
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Ive been reading this with some interest.But I must state for the most part there should be total pk except in certain safe zones though outside of the zones there would be guards player and non player as well as lvl restriction in some parts ...I dont know about most of you good people but ive played my share of rpgs and im not into going around just randomly killing people ..though some people will be however there are benifits to this one it is a real adventure you just dont walk up to anybody and fight them or talk poo to them knowing they cant do anything about it due to lvl or areas that you are currently in also for rogue and thief even assasin characters as well as people that wish to play evil villians there is no hope for the world if they cant kill on call (if they cant it will only lead to scammers and such ive seen it in other games )
Now I do agree and think there should be penelties for just going around killing outside of the arena if they are a native we dont want mad high lvl people random pking everyone in sight but there should be other high lvls that should be able to keep that person in semi check as well as npcs if it gets out of hand i mean we sit here and talk about roleplaying well lets roleplay we dont know what lvl other people are do we sure some might become famous but hey they have there fame to think of as long as there is some group order against random pking that takes action against certain tresspassers I dont see any problems perhaps a safe zone lvls and a certain lvl before you are allowed to pk or to be pked.
Also for those of you that say well your mage isnt gonna be able to cast his fireball into a group LOL if he is a good mage and a roleplayer he shouldnt be doing that anyway he should be trying another spell to either trap entangle confuse the foe or to empower his team.
Any mage that casts a fireball in any world into the midst of his comrades (unless the are protected by some means)is a fool or not to be trusted and lacks the discpline to hold true to his or her calling in honorable ways.
make it so if people are in line of site they take damage it will just make the mage that much better in the long run or that much deader.
PK all the way ..well almost
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Well I dont think we have many PKers here so far, I only remember one guy (forgot his name) and he said he was gonna be more \"business-like\" , and not just randomly PK peanuts.
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if he is a good mage and a roleplayer he shouldnt be doing that anyway he should be trying another spell to either trap entangle confuse the foe or to empower his team.
IF is the operative word here. Obviously even the densest powergamer probably wouldn\'t nuke his own friends, but it has been known to happen. Judging from the quality and kind of posts on these boards, I don\'t see too many random PKers here (unless they\'re all lurking). That might well change once the game comes out, though. I\'m sure a lot of ppl will come over from RS, and then we\'ll be dealing with RPKers all over the place unless we have some sort of system in place to deter it.
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Originally posted by Kendaro
A good alined can\'t harm another good alined and same goes with evil aligned. It would probably be a lot of work but I feel personally that to do PK right and give it meaning in a RPG there has to be a code and no one should just be able to kill anyone else without cause or rules allowing it.
how would a \'good guy\' get a evil status thing then? and vise versa?
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Not all that are born into this world are good. As the Kendaro has seen many times, there is a seed of badness in all. It is up to the individual on what way they will follow and what side they shall choose.
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I think evil should be able to kill everyone, and good only kill evil. But thats if their was an alinement, which I would rather not have.
I say we should not have zones because people will be jumping over and back on the line getting away from an opponent.
I do not know what to say except that....well....uhh.....cheese tastes good. :D
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I agree the safe places should be small and inbetween evil should be able to kill anyone and good should be able to kill evil.
Pking yes it has to be in but absolute random Rpk is bad but in order for the world to have some sort of structure you need to have that option of just killing the booger with dueling and such i dont see how that would settle anything
normal person minding there own business
N00b Ha ha you suck bleep bleep you cant even kill me that is ooc of course the player could kill the noob but due to laws and order wouldnt (for the most part)
player :um I challenge you to a duel
Noob: lol noway you bleep bleep
this takes the whole game ooc
another way it could happen
normal person doing his normal stuff
noob hah you Bleep bleep (lets face it people in a world where you can be killed by anyone you dont talk like that to someone that could kill you unless your an idiot)
Why even play if you cannot interract with fellow players just go grab your ps2 or your xbox and woah instant fantasy world that hey its all set in stone I can do this and that but i cant do this .
At least in this kind of world you can interact work with others have friends ally\'s and clan members to help you in dire times along with guards and other players that just happen along seeing a criminal trying to kill someone .
Lets face it even in cities people get killed here and there but people can find shelter with the law and not have to fear as much.
as the dumb merchant who cant handle a dagger or so forth taking his millions from town to town without an escort and being waylaid by bandits .
Hmm how many people would run around without guards and so forth and friends if we were back in a real medievil world with magic and monsters ...not to many not till you tohught you were really good and could handle the situation right ..if you want all cozy lovey dovey no harm accept for monsters or not go play sims or go out and play in the real world .
In this kind of world if it is rp people come to become warriors mages thieves adventurers of all kinds to live in another world the skills farming mining smithing fishing alchemy cooking are side skills just like skills in the real world they help you obtain your goals.
In this kind of world good trys to establish themselves protecting the innocent destroying the villians while evil trys to make everyone bow down to them and cower in fear causing chaos everywhere while trying to destroy good.
Alignments people
laws put into affect will protect players if you go into a part of town or outside it you shouldnt um isnt that your mistake and shouldnt whatever happen that will happen it is a game remeber the fun is in playing it not always going the safest route adventure remeber.
Now you will have people trying to kill other people um if its done right it will only be in certain allys after night or out in deserted areas otherwise guards and other people will be forced to step in and take measures .
Some of the safe points I belive should be but not restricted too because a truly evil player should be allowed to use a spell or item to get past these at times making it ..More realistic.
Houses :thieves and such might find entrance using skills they have.
Temples and churches :sanctuary anyone....of course evil players with there being gods and all might have ways around this ...being powerful enough or directed from there diety.Also other evil people should be allowed to kill here ..um there evil right ..guards and such could then report it making the person a criminal and killed upon site if they were caught .
Then they could be hunted down by all sorts of people with rewards and such coming from there capture or kill .with proof if the guards cant handle em.
guards should be made really tough and wander from place to place also there could be informers and such that could place reports as well as players with some sort of proof computer or otherwise that could report a criminal...UM Zordak failed to kill me in the catacombs where he attacked me ...this could be used and prices could be put on the persons head and so forth until he was caught and punished.
Also this would be a way to make other cities as the criminals dont want or wish to be caught losing time items and so on since it wasnt a duel in the arena and such they would decide to move to another town ...um Hey Im not wanted here ...and they wouldnt be but what about those people hunting them ...could they capture the person or would they become a criminal of another city .
Just more ideas had more but page was already longer than most like to read
Lenric
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I like the idea of not giveing out XP for PKing
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I was too lazy to read all of that, bit I did read about the people harrasing new or just regular people.
If I had a dime for every time someone talked nice to me when I was new in \"the other game\", I\'d be broke.
But out of character things will happen almost no matter what. There is nothing you can do to stop it. Its only bad, though, when you cuss them out like saying \"No way you son of a *bleep*!\". But what the moderators (to help a bit) is to make a chat filter so that when anyone cusses it says *bleep* or *beep*. Just to keep younger children ok.
But people can always nudge off curse words, but not rascist (or in many females\' case) sexist remarks.
One time (in \"the other game\") some person wanted some plate mail armor which took a long time for me to get. I simply said \"No thank you\" but of course he comes back with \"Stupid Jew\". I ask \"What was that?\" he said \"Haha your a stupid *bleep*ed up Jew!\". I reported this to the head of \"the other game\" but, as always, he was swamped with letters and had probably not even seen my message. I am Jewish and that was very offensive. He did not stop with the comment above, but I need not go any further with the conversation.
If any representative could speak, what will be done in this game about rascial, and sexist remarks, and just plain swearing?
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Ok here is how the PvP should go down.
There should be racial tensions( i\'l ley the GM\'s figure out how that will work). You should only be able to pk within 10 lvls of your own( like a lvl 20 could kill a lvl 10-30), but must be lvl 10 to pk or get pked. If you pk a person you should lose faction with that race. After you kill a person you should NOT be able to take items, only money( BTW there should be a bank where you can store money and items). When you die, pk or no, you should have to go back and loot your corpse. Pending on your level is how long your corpse will stay before it goes POOF and (decay\'s) if you will.
Thanks for listening ;)
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i think there should not be full pking all the time everywhere, i want to just mine and smith unharassed by other people...
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what you think of MY pk ideas?
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kendrick, i think the type of arena is similar to a the collauseam or what ever is in rome, where the gladiators fought(althought i think it will be a bit more organized than that ;) )
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One of the best MMO games I\'ve played was a space sim called Jumpgate. I personally think they got the PvP system down real well. Anyone can kill anyone else, but they had a couple of systems implamented to stop idiots from killing random people who didn\'t have PvP indicated. The first system was a political rating. The more missions you do, NPC\'s you kill (there were no GOOD NPC\'s so that was fine) the higher your political rating, and the higher the political rating the lower the Taxes you paid on your purchases. The other system was a bounty system, that placed a nice fat bounty on your head the moment you killed a non NPC, which was announced publicly over the Main com channels, so that every bounty hunter worth his level was chasing the person down. The nice side effect was that some of the \"unregulated\" stationstended to be populated with the rougher element of the game, which noobs very quickly learned to avoid, but the rest of the areas were very safe. In the whole time I was playing I never saw someone shooting down a non PvP player in regulated space. Something like this could easily be ported over to this game.
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I liked that game, but it was complicated to learn. I just had a bunch of space ships fire at me when I had just started...And when there were guild wars...I was toast! Isn\'t that game dead now? (or the page wont load)
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Originally posted by Kendaro
but in a duel or guild war it is quite specific who you are to fight.....
specific as in you only attack the players from the guild you are waging war with... or??
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I like the bounty idea.
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First I need to get one thing of my chest really fast, Mehallie do you honestly believe there was NO killing in medieval times for say, gold, a nice sword someone was carrying, even just for some cloak a bandit decided he liked. you say it would be to real if it implemented this system in the game yet you say you don think there will be enough tradeskills, lol last time I checked baking cookies, mining, carving, etc. is part of the real world. and your arguement about the raping, and other illegal crimes in the real world is an extreme, I coudl just as easily say that about your \"trade skill\" for example, why If your gonna add baking, smithing, mining, why cant a player raise animals to breed, shouldnt we be able to build new towns ourself, what about players inviting new ideas, like a cake powered cariage. anyway thats all quite silly. and now for the veiws and personal opinions of Zaphieon, someone that has been playing RPGs since the mid 80\'s.
I remmber when MMORPGs first started coming out.. what a glarious time it was for RPG lovers.. the chance to play there favorite genre of game with 1000s of others to interact with. before then we had were stuck playing alone, before then you didnt go to the store looking for a RPG wondering if you coudl bake a cake in it, make a guild, buy a house, anyone those. It wasnt really about the graphics engine, how much bank space you would have, if there was gonna be PVP(of course not cuase there was only gonna be us playing it). anyway there is 2 extremes to MMORPGS today tradeskills and pvp, 2 aspects players really worry about, 2 aspects you must have to make a successful mmrpg. now in a mmorpg you have very few avid crafters i mean the ones that love to craft just about as few as them as avid pkers in a world were once you ave a repuation of pking you cant go into town cause the gaurds wil kill you, you cant sell to the town merchants cause gaurds will kill you, where when your spotted by a player he runs off and comes back with 15 friends. its 2 extremes very few people are going to really get into. sure there would be casual pkers here and there watching there limit, same as crafters, they will craft untell they get to a certain lvl and boredom then go out to quest or what not. arenas dont cut it for pvp, guild wars dont cut it. if you put these kinda limitations in the game your game will be jsut that limited. I will give you my personal opinion and wisdom how to set up constraits and enjoyable/exciting pvp interaction even for the most extreme crafter, try player cooperation. ok here goes.
first off all crafters newbies always start off in town, usuall some mine and what not, forges, ovens, all that good stuff to get them going.. likewise the pker they start usually just outside the safe zones usually in a dungeon.
number thing you need is a way to seperate those that pk from non pks.. easiest way(and most nonrealistic) is murder counts, I say if your gonna take the life of other players then you must face very harsh punishment. that being said after 3 murder counts NO matter what amount of time has passed between them or after then the player is labeled a murderer forever, after those 3 kills there is no way for them to redeem there selves, after the first kill they shoudl be labeled a criminal for 8 hours of game play, not being able to go into town, and being able to be attacked by others freely. after 2 kills the criminal label should be expanded to 36 hours of game play. the 3 is the forever murderer label. this label is established by either a red name when clicked on or by an aura of blackish-red the readiate, the more kills they have the darker it gets(add more dreaded the player is as well as teh bounty on his head). now those that have become a criminal/murderer KOS to npc gaurds, rangers, bountyhunters, that are in common towns throughout the land, roam the roads, and even scout out the woods here and there for these players. the weaker pks would be no match for these npcs, the higher lvls ones will generally die by 1 of them but sometimes win the fight, the veteran pks will win the fight with 1 about 75% of the time but if 2 are there they pretty much run or die.
Now for the craftsmen. they will start mining around town, as teh progress slowly they shoudl realize for the more precious/rare ores, minerals, plants, ingredents, etc. for there trade is found outside of town the more rare the further they have to wonder, now some trades lovers will say well i dont wanna get pked by some one that waiting way out there for me to come pick a spotted fluffy radishshroom, and well only veteran crafters really would need such an ingredent anyway so what they would/could do is get a friend, mercs that would go with them for these materials in the wilderness, these mercs are players general wanting to kil teh murderers for bountys on there heads, status symbol of being a protecter of the land(maybe a white arua, or hightlighted name), or just plain satisfactin of helping another player from the most dreadful danger of all another player(which everyone knows no AI can match the pure unpredicatblitly, braver, and sometimes sheer dumbness of an actually player).
ok on elast aspect to thru in the mix, travel. travel should be done by several means, first and most common the players feet, secondly maybe ridable steeds if added. and thirdly portal spells if added, now portal spells shouldnt be able to be used by just any player, should be very hard to obtain the ability to portal anywhere, this said there shoudl be portal points not ones which a player decides to mark a rune or bind or anything of this nature. maybe shrines, sacred stone circles, enchanted tree stumps and what not.. now the players that decide to be portalers, should first have to locate blank portal type scrolls off of beast that are deep within dungeons, way out in the forest of the world or maybe the corpse of a player. then they have to bind the scroll to the sacred spot not always so obvisous, all towns would have a spot or 2 to bind in some very secret ones. and thru otu teh worlds there shoudl be spots that are hard to find determine and as a portal channel once the player has atleast 2 binds then he can open a portal between the 2.. not just open a portal from dans house of the weird back to town.. now the portal will only be accessible from the opening side.. the side which you are traveling to will not indicate any thing except you poping thru it..
ok well i am gonna end it here, i am sure there is much to flame, argue about, and maybe agree with. these are simply my opinions on a balanced mmorpg were the 2 aspect players yearn for is met in teh extreme and the not so extreme
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pking is fun but.... some people are very opposed to pking
the way i see it there are several ways you can do this...
1. you can do team pking... meaning that certan races team together against other ones (ie. good versus evil versus neutrul)
2. level based pking it may be 4 levels diffrence to be able to hit and so on
3. a dueling pking system people that dont wanna pk can stay out of it but you still need pk areas ie. arenas
4. area pking ive seen this on other posts like dangerous streets and what not
5. all on all i dont agree with this at all cause some high level will always have a bad day.
id personally vote for a combo of 1 and 2 ... it adds a new aspect to the game... i like the fact that it would make guilds closer to each other, but people would make enemes fast.
the thing about crafters versus fighters.. crafters will always have more money than fighters. so they can pay for a certain degree of protection
you could make it no pk in town. that would make it more diffucult to traverse the terrain and would make the weak need to pay for protection caravans and such would make fighters at any leveles be able to gain money
my last thought on this subject is pking should have great rewards and great risks to add a risk factor to killing cause without it i think it would get out of hand
and remember no matter how good you are there is always someone better
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Look just to allow people to fight in arenas in which you need consent from both is dumb yeah I like the idea of arenas and think you should have them for people to show off thier skills but that should not be the only place that PKing exists. To have guild wars solely confined to an arena suckssss too, not only would it completely demean the concept of exploring because if I were in a guild and if we were on the brink of war or even in war I would know damn well that my friends and I would be out there exploring the hell out of the world so that we would understand the playing groud we would be fighting on.
Heres the deal:
Player Killing PVP system:
1.) During character creation a person has to choose a path. Peaceful and then Fighter/Warrior. If they choose the peacefull path they should get some special beneifits towards the crafting, alchemy jobs however that is not to stop them from being able to train as a fighter they just have to be more suited for those other vocations becuase it woudl be unfair to allowed a fighter to choose the peaceful path and then be a jackass out there knowing that no one could kill him.
2.) After creation of path then they choose everything else as regular.
3.) Pking is allowed everywhere except inside of towns.
4.) After someone has attacked a player they are not allowed to enter a town for up to 10 minutes after an attack and they may not log off for up to 10 minutes afterwards of an attack. There is an easy way to code this up by the way which won\'t allow you to exit from the game when you are in combat or immediately after. You also want to prevent people from getting low on Health when fighting monsters and then just logging off so they don\'t die.
5.) That option will give the person who is attacked ample time to sneak into a safe town to hide from the PKer adn the Pker of course will not be able to enter into the town after him.
6.) If someone is killed they should lose some experience as well as all of their ITEMs they are carrying on them. there should be a 10 percent chance that they will lose some of their armour also. This will minimize people from PKing solely to get a person\'s equipment.
7.) If someone PKs another person they will be branded as an outlaw. In each town a bounty hunters office will exist which will have a list of all the current outlaws. A small reward will be give to a person who successfully tracks down this outlaw and kills him.
i.) there are two ways to get rid off the bounty hunter list. 1\'st you could either make a spell called forgive that only upper level mages have which if cast on the person gets him off the bounty hunter list (he remains outlaw but not on the list) or you could make a temple or two in which he could go and get forgiveness from a preist. I\'ve seen that done in some games pretty cool idea.
Secondly, he could go to jail and serve his term.
8.) JAIL: around each town should be Peacekeepers. They are NPCs which sort of patrol the outlaws and bring them to jail. If an outlaw comes within a certain vicinity of the peackeeper he is to be brought into jail to serve a 5-10 minute jail sentence in essance he is defenseless in jail and must wait there for up to 5 minutes or wahtever. However he can use spells like invisibility in the jail. This is the only way to get rid of the outlaw tag. It is very realistic just as in the real world except the jail term is much much shorter. Forgiveness only prevents the bounty hunter from coming after you.
9.) if a person kills an outlaw they do not become an outlaw.
10.) Level based killing. A person can only attack someone that is 10 levels lower than them to up to any level they want. SO if a lvl 10 thinks he can tkae a level 40 then let him try but the lvl 40 cannot initiate attack.
11.) Peacefull players cannot attack or be attacked.
12.) Guild Wars only have to be declared by one guild. They have the entire world to roam over to wage war. They are immune from the outlaw tag if declared by both guilds. If not then they will be given the outlaw tag.
13.) Arena: anyone can fight in an arena. Either an item can be wagered or nothing it can solely be a gentlemans wager. People can come and watch the match. NO EXP or Items (except those wagered) are lost in an arena death.
14.) Each year Olympics are to be held in which guilds will team off in a fury of competitions including fake guild wars and one on one competitions. NO outlaw tag nor item loss or ExP lost will be given if killed in the olympics.
15.) Dueling can occur anywhere in the game. It must be accepted by both players and their armour and items are wagered NO EXP is lost if killed in a duel.
16.) Massive PKers will be IP banned from the game.
17.) Low level Pking will cause someones character to be deleted from the game.
18.) Traps and such used to kill peaceful players will cause character deletion also.
There perfect add anything you want...
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Four words. Darkanan is a genius. However, the jail sententence part isnt harsh enough. How about this;
If the player gets caught, the peacekeepers will take away his equipment, and he/she will have to give an amount of money to the Jail to retreive the stuff. The amount of gold that has to be given should be dependent on how many and how serious crimes the player committed.
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Sounds good to me. thanks for those 4 words by the way.
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Hmmm, to replay or not to reply?that was the question.
First, while I can agree on some points about many of your points Darkanan, much of this post simply does not apply to this game.
While I would like that this game focus on PvP, it will not and as such it is a moot point.
As for the idea that guild wars should be everywhere, not going to happen, safe areas must exist, I am not saying everywhere, I am saying areas near and around cities, towns themselves, areas that for some reason would not be good to allow PvP of any type, sacred sites and some undead dungeon with the ever flow of creatures comes to mind off the top.
As for what is an arena?I stated somewhere that places where it will be possible to be in a guild war will probably be 50% or more of the land in the game.
Areas for higher end types will probably all be this way, no better way to break a raid then to kill the people raiding.
Now for the point per point.
1. This game will allow players to make their characters what they want, as such there are no choices at creation that will forbid actions of one type much later. And it is not a game about one guild Vs the others?there will be plenty of NPCs trying to kill and ambush you.
3. straight Pking is not allowed ?skip to 10.
10. we have no levels
11. this would be everyone most of the time :-)
12. partly true, but since we can qualify most guilds as peaceful most of the time it must be declared and no outlaw thing. The other guild will probably be able to capture you though and keep you for some type of servitude?but that system won?t be tried till beta.
13. mostly true?but arenas will have different rules so these change.
14. a year in the game will be about a month?No events will happen as we have time, or guilds rent arenas and host events themselves.
15. Duals will occur only in areas that permit it, but probably most places.
16. won?t be an issue
17. we have no levels and it won?t be an issue
18. traps won?t kill peaceful players so not an issue
I?ll take this time to explain; guilds, clans or any other Player Organizations that we have will have more then just combat as a focus, A baking guild will not go to war with a mercenary guild?but they might go to war with another baking guild and hire a few mercenaries, but that needs to be investigated a bit.
Anyway sorry to burst your bubble.
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I think PKing should be left open. Even in towns, but NPC\'s and other players could pitch in to help stop them. This adds to roleplaying, and gives more diversity in what a player can do. They could be a thief, a murderor, some kind of evil wizard, etc. Opening up PK alows alot of possiblities, I play NeverWinter Nights alot and on most servers you can PK anywhere, but people will help you out if you get mugged(robbed). This would also open up some kind of kingdom thing, you could start in different locations or have different spawn spots to choose from throughout planeshift. Then say you opposed some town, you could get your clan(or a small army, number of friends/ppl with same view towards the town) and attempt a raid. My 2 cents :).
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i say limit PKing to several areas, or maybe like in RS, the wilderniss. the further you go in the wilderniss, the better items and monsters. people should be in level range of about 5 to attack eachother.
that doesn\'t mean i don\'t like the gamble arena idea but then there should be several kinds of arena for every player what-he-wants and there shouldn\'t be any attack-level limit (so a lv 1 guy could attack a lv 20 guy)
and guildwars should be like (when accepted from both sides) that every member of a guild could attack any member of the guild they are in war with ANYWHERE. so people that want to PVP all the time could go in guilds. this would also connect PVP with interacting and teamwork.
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i liek the duel idea also the out of town idea and the area how abotu this you can duel in town by sending a duel invitation thus it more real life in the old days u can duel on the streets and out side in far grounds pk can be allowed but i am not to sure about that idea als the idea of arenas and tornaments are very good arenas for guild wars also have a guil system guild war guilds makes it so u can fight any where as long as your guild is at war with another that means massive fights in town and to conquer guild grounds territory makes it more fun ad exciting
eg a guild that always chills in a certain place of town they act like it there teritory then another guild gets sick of them and wars them and trys to kick them out of at town and slay all of them and makes it there territory and it happends over and over etc...