PKing YES or NO?

[killer bob]

ok, i beleive that there should be no PKing, if you want PKing, go check out You-Know-what...

[bugabear]

Umm, yah, so here I am, sitting here, and wondering.  It\'d be pretty cool to have a no PK environment.  I could mine all day, make myself some weapons.  Sell my weapons.  Make some coin.  And do this... Day in, day out.  Without a care in the world.  No one is going to kill me so what do I care.  Making better and better weapons untill one day, I decide... What happened to my life or I decide there\'s no point in this.
  In any game, if i have had that oppertunity I took it.  I still do.  I love to mine, or to be a lumberjack, or anything.  I think its great.  But I am all for the ability to attack another player on a global scale.  I play a game for a sence of alernate reality.  Being able to mine or be a lumberjack is awsome.  Something I can\'t do everyday of my life.  But I need conflict.  Something that a AI monster who is in a constant spot \"constantly\" can give me.  I need the ability to make alliances for protection against others and the ability to take action against other players.
  Lets say I have my favorite mining spot.  I go to it and find a little newbie in it.  I tell him nicely, this is my \"private\" spot, and you should leave.  If he doesnt listen, I am forced to take action.  I can injure him substancially but not kill him, giving the warning he deserves.  Or (in a non player killing environment), talk him to death...
  I know being able to be killed by other players can cause grief. And I know the ability to put in to place a system that controls the ability to kill other players is grief also.  But the fact is, if your putting yourself through the pain, joys, and pleasures of making a MMORPG that is enjoyable for everyone, the grief of implementing a player killing system should be insignificant to the amount of grief of making the game as an entirity...
  I as a player, would really like to see this game reach its full potential, with or without the ability to kill another player.  I personally feel (PERSONALLY) that player killing, used in the right way on a massive scale, could provide a indepth feeling that few games have acheived...

My opinion, you dont goto like it, you just goto read it and look at it both ways.  Go to \"More on Pk\'ing\" post if u wana read my basic system that i propose could make Pking somewhat \"real\", its on the last page.

Put your pride aside, and don\'t be so quick to judge...

[Bonez]

the point is pvp will be in arenas etc... not open pkin....

[paxx]

Bugabear,
On your thoughts that pking on a mass scale if done the right way can provide a lot of depth in a game.
I agree.

However, it will not be done in this game. The decision was not made with little thought or on the fly. It was made after months of discussion.  The assumption that you seem to be making, that we (the devs) do not have the foresight or intelligence to see what Pking adds and what it takes from a game, and not decide what better fields the vision of the game, is almost insulting. The only reason it is not, is because I am assuming that it is not your intent.  

To debate the pro?s and cons of even limited PK, say once a week, Vs. how it can be used and abused has already been debated by the dev?s. There is nothing in your ?system? that is new to the debate.

When making a game, there is usually a Visionary lead, in this case Talad. That lead has a vision of what the game will be, in our case there is a lot of flexibility, in fulfilling that vision. But at no time has that vision included players attacking other players simply to do so.

Let us apply this example to real life. Now imagine that everyone came back from the dead in a couple of minutes. Now imagine that everyone attacked and mugged who they wanted when they wanted, the only distinction is somehow we where limited to one person a week. And you are saying that only if a guard sees you he can arrest you. Or even if that was not an issue, people just plain disliked you. 2 things would occur, either it would be almost exactly like the French revolution?with no end cause the ones in power don?t die. Or the faction penalty is so high that after a couple of PKs you can not function socially except in a guild, and then the guild should suffer as well for harboring you.  So in short time you really can?t enjoy anything because you are not able to function socially and those who can will kill you for satisfaction and social praise.

This will not happen in the game. I have not seen a game world, where people do not test the limits of everything in some way. In most of these cases morality it the first thing to die.

This game will enforce morality on that aspect with an iron fist. So much so that it simply would not enter your characters mind.

Now I may be giving a low morality level to the people who will play our game, but people are attracted to games by what they can do in them.

Now a game that takes everyone?s moral codes and builds on them, would be a very nice game. But it won?t be PS.

[Vengeance]

Ok I have thought of a PKing system I can support.

*shock*  :-)

Basically Paxx\'s and everyone else\'s point against PKing is that people naturally PK as much as possible because it is nasty and because an MMORPG world (especially a free one) is essentially a consequence-free environment.

However, I do hear and understand and sympathize with the people saying \"what if I\'m really really pissed off at someone who is annoying me?\"

The question is, how can we know whether someone is really PKing because they are outraged or whether they are just griefing others?

The answer is very simple.  We let PKers self-select.  Let\'s charge them real money for a kill.

We\'ll set up a Paypal account for PS.  You pay the Planeshift team $10 and write a note with your account name.  When we receive the money, we\'ll set a flag in the game to let you PK one person.

How pissed off are you?  How many murders can you afford?  :-)

- Venge

[tygerwilde]

so vengeance... you\'re stacking the game in favor of players who have money, supposing a player comes in with paypal and gives you a stack of cash higher than my right eye(I\'m six and a half foot tall!!!) would he be eligible to make planeshifts his own personal pk playground, a griefer with no limits, cause he can pay for it? if that\'s true, I\'m outta here. I\'m a broke mofo, and proud to be that way,

[Caldazar]

Originally posted by tygerwilde
so vengeance... you\'re stacking the game in favor of players who have money, supposing a player comes in with paypal and gives you a stack of cash higher than my right eye(I\'m six and a half foot tall!!!) would he be eligible to make planeshifts his own personal pk playground, a griefer with no limits, cause he can pay for it? if that\'s true, I\'m outta here. I\'m a broke mofo, and proud to be that way,

I think (and I hope) that he was ironic (spelling?).

[paxx]

While it is ironic, it is not a bad idea. Another similar avenue could be that your top 5 skills are reduced by 3?this will mean that you are willing to lessen your character to kill this pain in the butt.

Though anyone willing to donate 20 grand?I am not sure I am opposed to him having the ability to PK 2000 times.

[tygerwilde]

well, just let me know if you implement the p2pk idea man, I would appreciate the time to abandon ship

[Bonez]

u contridict the whole game with ur pay to kill theory.. \"game will aways be free\" etc... just keep pkin in an arena or safe place so everyone is happy. i wanna pk but i dont wanna have to pay a \"free\" game to do it

[acidfunk]

I think PKing makes every game even better than it already was. PvM is alright, but PvP, WOW!!! I think a system where each person had to agree to going hostile would be better though, that would be the ultimate PvP system. That would make it fair for people who DONT like Pking, and fair for us who absolutely LOVE it!!!!

[acidfunk]

Thats a horrible idea. And what about the person who died because of that person paying $10? Yes, thats extremely fair (NOT). A game without pking isn\'t much of a game at all. PvM isn\'t a challenge at all, but PvP IS.

I mean, sure, first time you\'re exploring the world, it might be nice to just do it alone. Go figure out what there is, find out what monsters there are, and just run around carefree. But when you get more experienced at the game... Monsters aren\'t going to cut it.

Sure, you can beat a couple monsters. You can slay a few dragons. Woop-de-doo. The REAL challenge is being able to outwhit another person somewhere out there in the world. Now THAT\'S an amazing feeling.

Again. PvP where *BOTH* players accept to go hostile would be the best. That would make everybody happy.

[Bonez]

i know in mulitple games there are seperate worlds each world has a different town religion etc. at the town hall you select whether you want to be a combatant or a civilian. a civilian cannot be attacked but a combatant can. only players from another world can attack a combatant and if they choose to go between worlds their are many people waiting to fight them so only stronger will go threw. There is also an arena with a minimum level requirement to go in. I think that the town hall would be a good thing so you can select if u wanna be able to attack or if you just wanna fight monsters or smith mine etc.

[Samoth]

No way Bonez - the town hall is for the tourist

paying for a kill is stupid - look at OJ

let the players enforce for themselves - just give them the abitlity to do so

some players should be keepers of the peace - if a PK happens in their town - then it\'s the hanging tree

admins should enforce good morals - but stay out of sight

if you want to risk your life wander into regions where the Kings patrol does not go!

let\'s make real men (or women) of those adventurers!!

[Skizzik]

Originally posted by Vengeance
Ok I have thought of a PKing system I can support.

*shock*  :-)

Basically Paxx\'s and everyone else\'s point against PKing is that people naturally PK as much as possible because it is nasty and because an MMORPG world (especially a free one) is essentially a consequence-free environment.

However, I do hear and understand and sympathize with the people saying \"what if I\'m really really pissed off at someone who is annoying me?\"

The question is, how can we know whether someone is really PKing because they are outraged or whether they are just griefing others?

The answer is very simple.  We let PKers self-select.  Let\'s charge them real money for a kill.

We\'ll set up a Paypal account for PS.  You pay the Planeshift team $10 and write a note with your account name.  When we receive the money, we\'ll set a flag in the game to let you PK one person.

How pissed off are you?  How many murders can you afford?  :-)

- Venge

What if you make a kill cost a quadrizillion dollars?

\"I\'ll kill you!!! As soon as I can afford it!\"

\"If I win the lottery, you\'re a dead man!\"  X(