How should the PVP system work?

[Cyonamie]

kendrick, i think the type of arena is similar to a the collauseam or what ever is in rome, where the gladiators fought(althought i think it will be a bit more organized than that )

[Credendo]

One of the best MMO games I\'ve played was a space sim called Jumpgate. I personally think they got the PvP system down real well. Anyone can kill anyone else, but they had a couple of systems implamented to stop idiots from killing random people who didn\'t have PvP indicated. The first system was a political rating. The more missions you do, NPC\'s you kill (there were no GOOD NPC\'s so that was fine) the higher your political rating, and the higher the political rating the lower the Taxes you paid on your purchases. The other system was a bounty system, that placed a nice fat bounty on your head the moment you killed a non NPC, which was announced publicly over the Main com channels, so that every bounty hunter worth his level was chasing the person down. The nice side effect was that some of the \"unregulated\" stationstended to be populated with the rougher element of the game, which noobs very quickly learned to avoid, but the rest of the areas were very safe. In the whole time I was playing I never saw someone shooting down a non PvP player in regulated space.  Something like this could easily be ported over to this game.

[whitti]

I liked that game, but it was complicated to learn. I just had a bunch of space ships fire at me when I had just started...And when there were guild wars...I was toast! Isn\'t that game dead now? (or the page wont load)

[Xalthar]

Originally posted by Kendaro
but in a duel or guild war it is quite specific who you are to fight.....

specific as in you only attack the players from the guild you are waging war with... or??

[Nikech]

I like the bounty idea.

[Zaphieon]

First I need to get one thing of my chest really fast, Mehallie do you honestly believe there was NO killing in medieval times for say, gold, a nice sword someone was carrying, even just for some cloak a bandit decided he liked. you say it would be to real if it implemented this system in the game yet you say you don think there will be enough tradeskills, lol last time I checked baking cookies, mining, carving, etc. is part of the real world. and your arguement about the raping, and other illegal crimes in the real world is an extreme, I coudl just as easily say that about your \"trade skill\" for example, why If your gonna add baking, smithing, mining, why cant a player raise animals to breed, shouldnt we be able to build new towns ourself, what about players inviting new ideas, like a cake powered cariage. anyway thats all quite silly. and now for the veiws and personal opinions of Zaphieon, someone that has been playing RPGs since the mid 80\'s.

I remmber when MMORPGs first started coming out.. what a glarious time it was for RPG lovers.. the chance to play there favorite genre of game with 1000s of others to interact with. before then we had were stuck playing alone, before then you didnt go to the store looking for a RPG wondering if you coudl bake a cake in it, make a guild, buy a house, anyone those. It wasnt really about the graphics engine, how much bank space you would have, if there was gonna be PVP(of course not cuase there was only gonna be us playing it). anyway there is 2 extremes to MMORPGS today tradeskills and pvp, 2 aspects players really worry about, 2 aspects you must have to make a successful mmrpg. now in a mmorpg you have very few avid crafters i mean the ones that love to craft just about as few as them as avid pkers in a world were once you ave a repuation of pking you cant go into town cause the gaurds wil kill you, you cant sell to the town merchants cause gaurds will kill you, where when your spotted by a player he runs off and comes back with 15 friends. its 2 extremes very few people are going to really get into. sure there would be casual pkers here and there watching there limit, same as crafters, they will craft untell they get to a certain lvl and boredom then go out to quest or what not. arenas dont cut it for pvp, guild wars dont cut it. if you put these kinda limitations in the game your game will be jsut that limited. I will give you my personal opinion and wisdom how to set up constraits and enjoyable/exciting pvp interaction even for the most extreme crafter, try player cooperation. ok here goes.


first off all crafters newbies always start off in town, usuall some mine and what not, forges, ovens, all that good stuff to get them going.. likewise the pker they start usually just outside the safe zones usually in a dungeon.


number thing you need is a way to seperate those that pk from non pks.. easiest way(and most nonrealistic) is murder counts, I say if your gonna take the life of other players then you must face very harsh punishment. that being said after 3 murder counts NO matter what amount of time has passed between them or after then the player is labeled a murderer forever, after those 3 kills there is no way for them to redeem there selves, after the first kill they shoudl be labeled a criminal for 8 hours of game play, not being able to go into town, and being able to be attacked by others freely. after 2 kills the criminal label should be expanded to 36 hours of game play. the 3 is the forever murderer label. this label is established by either a red name when clicked on or by an aura of blackish-red the readiate, the more kills they have the darker it gets(add more dreaded the player is as well as teh bounty on his head). now those that have become a criminal/murderer KOS to npc gaurds, rangers, bountyhunters, that are in common towns throughout the land, roam the roads, and even scout out the woods here and there for these players. the weaker pks would be no match for these npcs, the higher lvls ones will generally die by 1 of them but sometimes win the fight, the veteran pks will win the fight with 1 about 75% of the time but if 2 are there they pretty much run or die.


Now for the craftsmen. they will start mining around town, as teh progress slowly they shoudl realize for the more precious/rare ores, minerals, plants, ingredents, etc. for there trade is found outside of town the more rare the further they have to wonder, now some trades lovers will say well i dont wanna get pked by some one that waiting way out there for me to come pick a spotted fluffy radishshroom, and well only veteran crafters really would need such an ingredent anyway so what they would/could do is get a friend, mercs that would go with them for these materials in the wilderness, these mercs are players general wanting to kil teh murderers for bountys on there heads, status symbol of being a protecter of the land(maybe a white arua, or hightlighted name), or just plain satisfactin of helping another player from the most dreadful danger of all another player(which everyone knows no AI can match the pure unpredicatblitly, braver, and sometimes sheer dumbness of an actually player).


ok on elast aspect to thru in the mix, travel. travel should be done by several means, first and most common the players feet, secondly maybe ridable steeds if added. and thirdly portal spells if added, now portal spells shouldnt be able to be used by just any player, should be very hard to obtain the ability to portal anywhere, this said there shoudl be portal points not ones which a player decides to mark a rune or bind or anything of this nature. maybe shrines, sacred stone circles, enchanted tree stumps and what not.. now the players that decide to be portalers, should first have to locate blank portal type scrolls off of beast that are deep within dungeons, way out in the forest of the world or maybe the corpse of a player. then they have to bind the scroll to the sacred spot not always so obvisous, all towns would have a spot or 2 to bind in some very secret ones. and thru otu teh worlds there shoudl be spots that are hard to find determine and as a portal channel once the player has atleast 2 binds then he can open a portal between the 2.. not just open a portal from dans house of the weird back to town.. now the portal will only be accessible from the opening side.. the side which you are traveling to will not indicate any thing except you poping thru it..


ok well i am gonna end it here, i am sure there is much to flame, argue about, and maybe agree with. these are simply my opinions on a balanced mmorpg were the 2 aspect players yearn for is met in teh extreme and the not so extreme

[Nadius]

pking is fun but.... some people are very opposed to pking

the way i see it there are several ways you can do this...

1. you can do team pking... meaning that certan races team together against other ones (ie. good versus evil versus neutrul)
2. level based pking it may be 4 levels diffrence to be able to hit and so on
3. a dueling pking system people that dont wanna pk can stay out of it but you still need pk areas ie. arenas
4. area pking ive seen this on other posts like dangerous streets and what not
5. all on all i dont agree with this at all cause some high level will always have a bad day.

id personally vote for a combo of 1 and 2 ... it adds a new aspect to the game... i like the fact that it would make guilds closer to each other, but people would make enemes fast.

the thing about crafters versus fighters.. crafters will always have more money than fighters. so they can pay for a certain degree of protection

you could make it no pk in town. that would make it more diffucult to traverse the terrain and would make the weak need to pay for protection caravans and such would make fighters at any leveles be able to gain money

my last thought on this subject is pking should have great rewards and great risks to add a risk factor to killing cause without it i think it would get out of hand

and remember no matter how good you are there is always someone better

[Darkanan]

Look just to allow people to fight in arenas in which you need consent from both is dumb yeah I like the idea of arenas and think you should have them for people to show off thier skills but that should not be the only place that PKing exists. To have guild wars solely confined to an arena suckssss too, not only would it completely demean the concept of exploring because if I were in a guild and if we were on the brink of war or even in war I would know damn well that my friends and I would be out there exploring the hell out of the world so that we would understand the playing groud we would be fighting on.

Heres the deal:

Player Killing PVP system:

1.) During character creation a person has to choose a path. Peaceful and then Fighter/Warrior. If they choose the peacefull path they should get some special beneifits towards the crafting, alchemy jobs however that is not to stop them from being able to train as a fighter they just have to be more suited for those other vocations becuase it woudl be unfair to allowed a fighter to choose the peaceful path and then be a jackass out there knowing that no one could kill him.

2.) After creation of path then they choose everything else as regular.

3.) Pking is allowed everywhere except inside of towns.

4.) After someone has attacked a player they are not allowed to enter a town for up to 10 minutes after an attack and they may not log off for up to 10 minutes afterwards of an attack. There is an easy way to code this up by the way which won\'t allow you to exit from the game when you are in combat or immediately after. You also want to prevent people from getting low on Health when fighting monsters and then just logging off so they don\'t die.

5.) That option will give the person who is attacked ample time to sneak into a safe town to hide from the PKer adn the Pker of course will not be able to enter into the town after him.

6.) If someone is killed they should lose some experience as well as all of their ITEMs they are carrying on them. there should be a 10 percent chance that they will lose some of their armour also. This will minimize people from PKing solely to get a person\'s equipment.

7.) If someone PKs another person they will be branded as an outlaw. In each town a bounty hunters office will exist which will have a list of all the current outlaws. A small reward will be give to a person who successfully tracks down this outlaw and kills him.

   i.) there are two ways to get rid off the bounty hunter list. 1\'st  you could either make a spell called forgive that only upper level mages have which if cast on the person gets him off the bounty hunter list (he remains outlaw but not on the list) or you could make a temple or two in which he could go and get forgiveness from a preist. I\'ve seen that done in some games pretty cool idea.
          Secondly, he could go to jail and serve his term.

8.) JAIL: around each town should be Peacekeepers. They are NPCs which sort of patrol the outlaws and bring them to jail. If an outlaw comes within a certain vicinity of the peackeeper he is to be brought into jail to serve a 5-10 minute jail sentence in essance he is defenseless in jail and must wait there for up to 5 minutes or wahtever. However he can use spells like invisibility in the jail. This is the only way to get rid of the outlaw tag. It is very realistic just as in the real world except the jail term is much much shorter. Forgiveness only prevents the bounty hunter from coming after you.

9.) if a person kills an outlaw they do not become an outlaw.

10.) Level based killing. A person can only attack someone that is 10 levels lower than them to up to any level they want. SO if a lvl 10 thinks he can tkae a level 40 then let him try but the lvl 40 cannot initiate attack.

11.) Peacefull players cannot attack or be attacked.

12.) Guild Wars only have to be declared by one guild. They have the entire world to roam over to wage war. They are immune from the outlaw tag if declared by both guilds. If not then they will be given the outlaw tag.

13.) Arena: anyone can fight in an arena. Either an item can be wagered or nothing it can solely be a gentlemans wager. People can come and watch the match. NO EXP or Items (except those wagered) are lost in an arena death.

14.) Each year Olympics are to be held in which guilds will team off in a fury of competitions including fake guild wars and one on one competitions. NO outlaw tag nor item loss or ExP lost will be given if killed in the olympics.

15.) Dueling can occur anywhere in the game. It must be accepted by both players and their armour and items are wagered NO EXP is lost if killed in a duel.

16.) Massive PKers will be IP banned from the game.

17.) Low level Pking will cause someones character to be deleted from the game.

18.) Traps and such used to kill peaceful players will cause character deletion also.

There perfect add anything you want...

[Terra111]

Four words. Darkanan is a genius. However, the jail sententence part isnt harsh enough. How about this;

If the player gets caught, the peacekeepers will take away his equipment, and he/she will have to give an amount of money to the Jail to retreive the stuff. The amount of gold that has to be given should be dependent on how many and how serious crimes the player committed.

[Darkanan]

Sounds good to me. thanks for those 4 words by the way.

[paxx]

Hmmm, to replay or not to reply?that was the question.

First, while I can agree on some points about many of your points Darkanan, much of this post simply does not apply to this game.

While I would like that this game focus on PvP, it will not and as such it is a moot point.

As for the idea that guild wars should be everywhere, not going to happen, safe areas must exist, I am not saying everywhere, I am saying areas near and around cities, towns themselves, areas that for some reason would not be good to allow PvP of any type, sacred sites and some undead dungeon with the ever flow of creatures comes to mind off the top.

As for what is an arena?I stated somewhere that places where it will be possible to be in a guild war will probably be 50% or more of the land in the game.

Areas for higher end types will probably all be this way, no better way to break a raid then to kill the people raiding.

Now for the point per point.

1.  This game will allow players to make their characters what they want, as such there are no choices at creation that will forbid actions of one type much later. And it is not a game about one guild Vs the others?there will be plenty of NPCs trying to kill and ambush you.
3.    straight Pking is not allowed ?skip to 10.
10.  we have no levels
11.    this would be everyone most of the time :-)
12.  partly true, but since we can qualify most guilds as peaceful most of the time it must be declared and no outlaw thing. The other guild will probably be able to capture you though and keep you for some type of servitude?but that system won?t be tried till beta.
13.   mostly true?but arenas will have different rules so these change.
14.    a year in the game will be about a month?No events will happen as we have time, or guilds rent arenas and host events themselves.
15.    Duals will occur only in areas that permit it, but probably most places.
16. won?t be an issue
17.    we have no levels and it won?t be an issue
18.   traps won?t kill peaceful players so not an issue

I?ll take this time to explain; guilds, clans or any other Player Organizations that we have will have more then just combat as a focus, A baking guild will not go to war with a mercenary guild?but they might go to war with another baking guild and hire a few mercenaries, but that needs to be investigated a bit.

Anyway sorry to burst your bubble.

[Jrout]

I think PKing should be left open. Even in towns, but NPC\'s and other players could pitch in to help stop them. This adds to roleplaying, and gives more diversity in what a player can do. They could be a thief, a murderor, some kind of evil wizard, etc. Opening up PK alows alot of possiblities, I play NeverWinter Nights alot and on most servers you can PK anywhere, but people will help you out if you get mugged(robbed). This would also open up some kind of kingdom thing, you could start in different locations or have different spawn spots to choose from throughout planeshift. Then say you opposed some town, you could get your clan(or a small army, number of friends/ppl with same view towards the town) and attempt a raid. My 2 cents .

[Evilcow]

i say limit PKing to several areas, or maybe like in RS, the wilderniss. the further you go in the wilderniss, the better items and monsters. people should be in level range of about 5 to attack eachother.

that doesn\'t mean i don\'t like the gamble arena idea but then there should be several kinds of arena for every player what-he-wants and there shouldn\'t be any attack-level limit (so a lv 1 guy could attack a lv 20 guy)

and guildwars should be like (when accepted from both sides) that every member of a guild could attack any member of the guild they are in war with ANYWHERE. so people that want to PVP all the time could go in guilds. this would also connect PVP with interacting and teamwork.

[y1n]

i liek the duel idea also the out of town idea and the area how abotu this you can duel in town by sending a duel invitation thus it more real life in the old days u can duel on the streets and out side in far grounds pk can be allowed but i am not to sure about that idea als the idea of arenas and tornaments are very good arenas for guild wars also have a guil system guild war guilds makes it so u can fight any where as long as your guild is at war with another that means massive fights in town and to conquer guild grounds territory makes it more fun ad exciting

eg a guild that always chills in a certain place of town they act like it there teritory then another guild gets sick of them and wars them and trys to kick them out of at town and slay all of them and makes it there territory and it happends over and over etc...