Author Topic: Complaint about religion.  (Read 2963 times)

bilbous

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2010, 10:33:39 am »
you mean like the horny horses. i mean rivnaks or the chicken...err...kikkiri?

Azlon

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2010, 02:38:19 pm »
The only people I really see playing this game are people who really want to play the game. I got a pm saying all the options do not effect any stats, and I assume that is because it is still too early in development. I honestly tried to go crazy with character creation, but the points limited me.

The definition is offensive, perhaps it is suppose to be, but a simple statement stating that characters will react negatively in game because gods do exist. Instead it is a paragraph from some religious npc.
mods = QQ

Sarras Volcae

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2010, 03:28:11 pm »
i never had a problem with character creation (except bad internet). the points are there to keep you from starting out with a ridiculously powerful character. the options do affect your skills.

the definition shouldn't be offensive. gods obviously exist in yliakum, so you're either mental or live under a rock if you're an atheist.

/thread

Geoni

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2010, 01:54:45 pm »
Yeah there are gods/goddess's in Yliakum that make themselves prevalent at times. Anybody who denies the existence of those gods is likely insane atheists, anybody who doesn't care about the gods...I don't know what you would call them.


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verden

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2010, 02:57:59 pm »
The definition could be offensive if one was prone to taking offense. But if these people want their game to contain this definition of atheism, it is their business to keep it that way if they so wish.

Nivm

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2010, 10:15:57 pm »
 When referring to atheists, even if the character creation definition says otherwise, it should be "a person who does not revere or put their faith in gods". This could be the person who thinks they are just extremely powerful mages, was wronged by them at some point, or is just the pragmatic who doesn't prostrate themselves for anyone.
 Simply because the gods actually exits, there aren't "believers" and "non-believers"; there are "worshipers" and "non-worshipers". Worshipers don't get as emotional about religion as believers do, because their sureness is not based upon faith. Instead of the preacher's message being "act this way or/and my god will (strike you down)/(reward you)!", it's "there's this being that's really awesome, follow it!"
 It just works better that way.

bloodedIrishman

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2010, 02:53:10 am »
Quote
When referring to atheists, even if the character creation definition says otherwise, it should be "a person who does not revere or put their faith in gods".

faith n. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence


In Yliakum you either accept the gods or you reject them. There is no need for faith. They appear.

Quote
Worshipers don't get as emotional about religion as believers do, because their sureness is not based upon faith.

I believe that someone whose religious beliefs are founded on actual fact would be more emotional and zealous about their religion than someone whose religious beliefs are grounded on a foundation of faith.


Believe in the gods or don't. Believe and you might be saved. Don't and you are screwed. Or you can believe in the Black Flame and see how that turns out.

Nivm

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2010, 04:11:11 am »
 Different idea, Blooded. You can put your faith in a bridge, your truck driver, or a good friend. It's putting faith into a chance, rather than putting faith into existence. I'm not sure how to make that explicit in the quote.

 Think of things in real life people revere (that are real); those are far more capable of ignoring degrading speech. It's the difference between yelling angrily and murder, or the difference between informing tactfully and yelling angrily.

verden

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2010, 09:51:24 am »
Just because the gods can appear in game doesn't mean that all characters have seen them. Some characters might distrust the words of others, or might distrust the gods directly based on them having so much apparent power. Such a gulf between regular people and gods is going to breed misunderstanding.

ThomPhoenix

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2010, 12:39:28 pm »
Everyone knows the Gods exist in Yliakum, the Gods actually influence events and lives. So what people do is worship a specific God in hopes that God will bless them.
Atheists are basically people who want to control their own lives and do not want the Gods to interfere with them. They choose to worship no God, which is considered eccentric or even dangerous to do, for if no God will help you, who will?
Lunatics are the people who claim the Gods don't exist.

I believe that someone whose religious beliefs are founded on actual fact would be more emotional and zealous about their religion than someone whose religious beliefs are grounded on a foundation of faith.
If only it were so. Look at real life, there's so much evidence to the contrary; Faith is so much more powerful than fact. It can drive people to the edge, and over it.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 12:42:39 pm by ThomPhoenix »
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novacadian

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #25 on: June 30, 2010, 02:14:36 pm »
When referring to atheists, even if the character creation definition says otherwise, it should be "a person who does not revere or put their faith in gods".

It is my feeling that you are mistaken. An atheist is one that believes strongly in the non-existence of any god just as a believer believes the opposite. An agnostic is one who does not believe nor dis-believe and is open to either possibility. They simply do not know.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2010, 02:17:23 pm by novacadian »

Illysia

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #26 on: June 30, 2010, 02:36:15 pm »
This is more issue of RL beliefs than IG definition. The setting is clear that nobody is crazy enough to doubt the existence of the Gods, (in the face of magic, how likely are you to doubt the existence of the Gods that provided it ;) ), but some are disenchanted enough to not worship them. Just think of the limit on non belief in the Gods like the limit on having Dragons in game. There is nothing truly barring it from happening other than settings.

Nivm

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2010, 10:03:06 pm »
 I opened up a bug report to take care of it completely for 4-5 years.
 Suggest things to go on the character creation list and just what the descriptions should be changed to.

khoridor

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2010, 04:40:02 am »
The definition is offensive, perhaps it is suppose to be, but a simple statement stating that characters will react negatively in game because gods do exist. Instead it is a paragraph from some religious npc.
How can a player be offended by a fictional religious character in a fictional religion?

Yes, PS definitions can bring confusion. Yet, for what I remember of character creation, it wasn't atheism that confused me: it was stated that atheists are insane, and I simply took it as game fact. What I found myself at odds with is that I wanted to be a polytheist, or undecided, or whatever they would call it if backed with a proper description.

It doesn't matter if PS atheists are actually insane or not, if they are right or wrong, if gods are gods or something else powerful enough to play gods, if people see only what they choose to see, etc. Settings are debatable in game, because characters don't know they are settings, they don't know what the players (think they) know. To me, the real confusion is that the distinction between belief and worship is not clearly made. In that regard, we have a definition for a rare case (disbelief), and not much for what usually makes the majority in a pantheon case, i.e., worship all loosely and let priests do the specific worships.

Eliseth

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Re: Complaint about religion.
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2010, 05:28:13 am »
The bottom line, to address the original complaint, is that being offended by a definition of a fictitious religion is illogical. You don't see Christians for example being offended that the in game religions promote the worship of false gods, do you? Do you know why? Because it isn't real. End of story. I doubt very much that the devs will change something because a fraction of the playerbase confuse Yliakum for real life.

That may have come across offensively, be assured it's not intended.