Complaint about religion.

[bloodedIrishman]

owned

[RlyDontKnow]

note that there've been a bug report opened about it: PS#4576
if you have an improtant argument to state about it, feel free to leave a comment there as well

[Marqsaynt]

How many people spend time reading all the lore before jumping in game? I agree with you about politcal correctness, that is until I actually got offended by something.

I read everything I could find on the PlaneShift world before jumping in game (so that's at least one).  I am not offended by the PS definition of atheist, it only applies to an imaginary world... ironically anyone that read the settings would have known this. Hypocrisy annoys me.

You're lucky this isn't baseball (or California criminal law) or you'd already have three strikes.

Moral of the story:

PlaneShift is a role-playing game....
1. Know the world.
2. Try to keep in-character (IC) and out of character (OOC) separate, even when it's difficult.

Hang in there, you're not the first person to get tripped up by the above... Everyone that has played PS for any amount of time has had to learn/relearn the above at one time or the other, even more than a few "veterans."

[Nivm]

Hang in there, you're not the first person to get tripped up by the above... Everyone that has played PS for any amount of time has had to learn/relearn the above at one time or the other, even more than a few "veterans."

This implies that you think it should not be changed, is this correct? (Y/N)
 Y: If you're going through a dark hallway, and trip on a rock, do you leave it there for the next person?
 N: Glorious, how do you think it should be changed, and what do you think should be added? Put any concise suggestions on the bugtracker.

[Marqsaynt]

This implies that you think it should not be changed, is this correct? (Y/N)
 Y: If you're going through a dark hallway, and trip on a rock, do you leave it there for the next person?
 N: Glorious, how do you think it should be changed, and what do you think should be added? Put any concise suggestions on the bugtracker.

I'll imply it, state it, write it down and have it notarized. I think the definition is fine.

Adding some politically correct prologue to the description would be like putting a "Caution, contents may be hot" warning on cups of coffee... within the context, it should be obvious.

[Nivm]

 Wait...What we are describing is to actually make "atheism" in-setting. Currently the term is described with the same definition as real life when in Plane Shift that isn't what it means.

When referring to atheists, even if the character creation definition says otherwise, it should be "a person who does not revere or put their faith in gods".

And I refer to "faith that the bridge is sturdy" instead of "faith that the bridge exists". An atheist like that in real-life is almost totally unheard of in Yliakum; and this is a civilization with libraries that's going through an age of unnatural enlightenment. It's not important to just make the character creation description less offensive, it's important that it also conforms to the universe it refers to; and makes sure the newbie knows it.

 This above is like vehemence but with out that implied angry or sullen feeling.

[Eliseth]

Currently the term is described with the same definition as real life when in Plane Shift that isn't what it means.

Ummm... no. Haven't we all consistently been saying that they are not the same? Let us clarify shall we...

Real life Atheist: Someone who does not believe in the existence of deities.
Yliakum Atheist: Someone who does not believe that the deities are worthy of worship, even though they do not doubt their existence.

This is the way it will stay. If the developers are really afraid of stepping on the odd players toes (which they're not), the only thing they could possibly do is rename the religion.

[verden]

Atheism, from the Greek, a-theos, meaning without-god. Although PlaneShift atheists may be aware that there are individuals like Talad -- whom others claim to be gods, or claim to be gods themselves -- a PS atheist would simply doubt that they were actually gods per se, and would be preoccupied with where their power actually comes from and who they really serve. This would preclude worshiping them, of course. I have never had a problem with this interpretation. Its exactly what I would be thinking if some being who called itself Jesus floated down on a cloud and started proselytizing to the human race.

[Rigwyn]

I think the original post stated that the player felt offended because atheists were portrayed as lunatics. Somehow the topic drifted towards faith choice of words..

It sounds to me like this is a case of not seeing the difference between one's character and one's self

[bloodedIrishman]

Why aren't you people (Nivm) listening to me when I say the definition is what it is and its notta gunna change. Moving on.

[Marqsaynt]

It sounds to me like this is a case of not seeing the difference between one's character and one's self

Exactly.

I think this is more of an MMORPG learning situation than anything else. There's nothing wrong with the in-game description or the person that initially found it personally offensive... Just seems to me to be normal RP "growing pains."

[Illysia]

Why aren't you people (Nivm) listening to me when I say the definition is what it is and its notta gunna change. Moving on.

Ooh ooh ooh ooh.... Can we do the Sapience verses Sentience argument next? *hops up and down*

But seriously though, Rigwyn is right. This is a bleeding over of RL into the game. Nivm is closer with his bridge theory. Not believing that the gods are gods is like not believing that the leaders of countries are leaders... Think what you want, but they are there and they do what they do. The only input the character has into that system is whether or not they worship and in turn get the benefits of worshiping.

[Lollo]

I am a very proud Atheist and in the context of this game, it's not offensive.  I think it is stupid to change it. 

[KoRnKloWn]

OK, this is a game, everything in it is fiction, fantasy, so nothing in it is related to anything in the real world.

[bloodedIrishman]

OK, this is a game, everything in it is fiction, fantasy, so nothing in it is related to anything in the real world.

  WHAT?!