Author Topic: I want my account to be deleted.  (Read 2279 times)

Edico

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I want my account to be deleted.
« on: November 16, 2017, 02:51:25 am »
I play this game since 2006. And with this character, "Edico", since 2008.
These days most of the time I was the only one player online.
Besides the fact that this game has become boring even with players inside, I am constrained to respect stupid rules like starring at the screen while my character is hitting the dummy.

Today I received the biggest disrespect for me as a player since I play this game.

I'm done with this game. I want my account to be deleted.
I am not intending to play this game, ever.

Thank you!
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 04:54:19 am by Edico »

LigH

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 02:54:41 am »
No disrespect from me, ever. Be well, old pal.

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Volki

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2017, 04:11:03 am »
Make a thread about this issue without directly referencing your ban. Otherwise they have justification to delete your threads.
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Edico

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2017, 04:33:47 am »
Thank you Volki! I edited my post.

Geoni

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2017, 08:29:44 pm »
I have to echo that the GMs are being kinda problematic about the issue with the dummies. It's obvious that they were created for the sake of training and grinding skills but to get onto people who are alt-tabbed because it's absolutely boring to just sit there for hours and watch your character hit a dummy for a minute after making one click of the mouse and instead expecting people to stare at the screen for hours with the only action you have to take being a click of the mouse is expecting people to endure absolute boredom. And it's absolute boredom to bring for example your axe skill level up from say 100 to 101/102 and not do anything else because you don't want to get banned. At the end of the day do you expect people to still want to play this game instead of something else if you're going to force that experience on someone?

I understand GMs have concerns about it because of botting but there's a clear difference between alt-tab training and botting. The problem comes in when somebody is alt-tabbed, they get turned around, and then suspected on botting when they don't respond for a few minutes. Before GMs decide to take action they need to at least wait 20 minutes because I don't see somebody botting for less than 20 minutes, but with alt-tabbing it seems reasonable to not respond for a few minutes. I've gotten warned by a GM one time who just straight up said 'take care of afk training' and jumped offline before I could even give a response, and I mean immediately. I don't see 'afk training' being against the rules even though things like scripts/botting or taking advantage of bugs are. If GMs are going to take enforcement on an action then it needs to be established in rules first.

But to not get long winded, why were dummies developed if they're going to be policed like this? Because if you're going to police people like this you might as well just expect people to grind their weapons on mobs, which is equally redundant. This is especially problematic when your ability to deal with enemies relies on specifically raising the weapons or magic skills, which are extremely painful to raise.

Staff needs to take this as an example of what happens when problematic and boring developed features are policed - you drive away your playerbase. Which is already hurting in numbers. Sorry if this comes off as an attack but I truly do like Planeshift's world and lore and I hate to see it die out due to a lacking playerbase. I feel like Unreal Engine is going to lure more players in and the unfair policing of forcing people to partake in a very boring feature needs to be addressed before it causes a controversy in the next generation of players that Unreal may attract and gives the game bad word of mouth.

Quick edit to add another note: Grinding is also more or less filler due to a lack of development of a larger world with more to fight and skill-build with. So with it being filler you ought to just let things like afk training slide until a more fleshed out game is built and the grinding is less time consuming. And the 100-200 levels of skills need to be made less time consuming.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 08:47:57 pm by Geoni »


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Rigwyn

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2017, 08:49:11 pm »
Edico, just click on profile and then on delete this account.

If you want your in game accounts deleted, it may take some time. An alternative is to change your password to some huge ass string of random text and the forget about it.




Volki

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2017, 09:03:34 pm »
To add to Geoni's last point, I'll paste what I said from the deleted thread.

Quote
Here's PS and grinding in a nutshell:

>devs make roleplaying game
>"encourage" roleplay by making grinding so tedious and boring that players don't want to do it
>turns out players will do anything to realize their character's potential
>grinding is so boring that you barely have to interact with the game to do it
>passive grinding becomes preferred method among players
>GMs crack down on "botting" by punishing players that passively grind
>GMs decide to call it "AFK training" and punish players that aren't botting
>GMs punish players that grind while alt-tabbed or just not looking
>using game's features is punishable
>players leave because they realize this is illogical

Another thing. I don't get how you can make a game with grinding this tedious and then expect players not to bot and passively grind. This game encourages those things via mechanics. There's a point at which people recognize unfairness and decide breaking the rules is reasonable. This game is well past that point.

I feel like Unreal Engine is going to lure more players in and the unfair policing of forcing people to partake in a very boring feature needs to be addressed before it causes a controversy in the next generation of players that Unreal may attract and gives the game bad word of mouth.

This. I've already seen it happen a bit.

Maybe Talad should try playing this game to see how unfair it is. Try to get to 100 in a few skills. See how much he's even able to roleplay. In fact, try having a life while he's not allowed to alt-tab from training. Conditions are that he only gets one monitor, like most of us, and can never break the rules.
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Emaline

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2017, 09:38:31 pm »
... If GMs are going to take enforcement on an action then it needs to be established in rules first.
...
"You may not be AFK (away from keyboard) and leave your character doing an action over and over by itself (e.g. fighting)."
Source: Rules page http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=31960.msg367016#msg367016


The idea of gaining skill is so that it's not so easy you max out everything in two weeks. Realistically if you were going to learn a task and become the best, a master it's going to take time, years even to fully master that craft. From what I understand it takes about 200hours to fully max any skill. That's just over a week (granted you are not going to do that at one time with no breaks!) But think about it, most of us do 12 years in school THEN go on to anywhere from 2-6 years of college, sometimes, even more, to fully become a professional at something. It's not that far-fetched. I know of SEVERAL players who have done it legitly, on multiple characters even. Some people choose to read while they grind, others utilize Netflix or youtube, or web browsing. Use windowed mode, we are not saying you have to stare AT your char 100% of the time, but you need to be glancing over at them every few minutes or so. We don't just ban lightly despite what you might think, most of the players who have been banned for this action got several warnings.Noone who gets to the point of getting a ban for it is unaware of the rule. And there are also several people who don't even bother to train they just RP or train idly when they do have the time.

Maybe we should put the dummies in a PvP zone  :devil:
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Volki

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2017, 10:45:05 pm »
The idea of gaining skill is so that it's not so easy you max out everything in two weeks. Realistically if you were going to learn a task and become the best, a master it's going to take time, years even to fully master that craft.

This is a video game. We're playing fictional characters. It's a roleplaying game. This is not a life skill simulator. It is not a wizard simulator. No one except maybe you and the developers want it to be that. Gamers do not want to play that.

Also, school is meant to keep children occupied and give them knowledge to handle the real world. No one goes to school for 8 hours a day for 12 years and learns one subject. It isn't even remotely similar.

By the way, you've been lied to by most of those players. Please come back to me after you've maxed a Way.

And let me reiterate: this is a video game. We've already told you numerous times why the design is terrible and illogical. Why people break the rules. Why they play characters that don't match mechanical skill. Why they quit.

You're desperately holding onto a terrible idea. There's plenty of good ones that will not destroy the playerbase due to unfairness. Just grant ranks based on time and what actions your character performs. Or implement character age and let older characters have high skill from the get-go. Do both. There's so many other better ideas that support roleplay.

THEN go on to anywhere from 2-6 years of college, sometimes, even more, to fully become a professional at something.

Yeah. In real life. This is a video game. Most people don't have that time to waste in real life and then in-game.

My friends make fun of this game because none of you realize how absurd the grinding is. (That and the persistent bugs.)

Maybe we should put the dummies in a PvP zone  :devil:

I'm not sure why you think this is funny. You're a GM of a game that regularly hits lows of less than 5 players online. That you think it's okay to make such jests in this situation is odd.
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Geoni

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2017, 11:21:54 pm »
... If GMs are going to take enforcement on an action then it needs to be established in rules first.
...
"You may not be AFK (away from keyboard) and leave your character doing an action over and over by itself (e.g. fighting)."
Source: Rules page http://207.244.96.64/PlaneShift/smf/index.php?topic=31960.msg367016#msg367016


The idea of gaining skill is so that it's not so easy you max out everything in two weeks. Realistically if you were going to learn a task and become the best, a master it's going to take time, years even to fully master that craft. From what I understand it takes about 200hours to fully max any skill. That's just over a week (granted you are not going to do that at one time with no breaks!) But think about it, most of us do 12 years in school THEN go on to anywhere from 2-6 years of college, sometimes, even more, to fully become a professional at something. It's not that far-fetched. I know of SEVERAL players who have done it legitly, on multiple characters even. Some people choose to read while they grind, others utilize Netflix or youtube, or web browsing. Use windowed mode, we are not saying you have to stare AT your char 100% of the time, but you need to be glancing over at them every few minutes or so. We don't just ban lightly despite what you might think, most of the players who have been banned for this action got several warnings.Noone who gets to the point of getting a ban for it is unaware of the rule. And there are also several people who don't even bother to train they just RP or train idly when they do have the time.

Maybe we should put the dummies in a PvP zone  :devil:

What's the difference between botting/scripting and afk training? Because you eventually need to click something to continue or you are scripting something. The rule words it like 'leave your character doing an action over and over by itself' when it should just be one 'over' here because repeating the action more than once (initiated before afking) requires a script. And I've been accused of 'afk training' when I was just alt-tabbing and didn't look at the screen for around 5-6 minutes because I was writing a post on a forum. But that's not being away from the keyboard. And the alt-tabbing thing is what I don't see in the rules. Indeed, you're posting here saying the 'legit' players would read or watch netflix windowed.

200 hours per skill is ridiculous by the way and it just highlights my point on why this isn't going to keep new players interested going forward. Especially when it'll get boring after about 4/200 hours of training that skill. And your use of real life skill building as a justification is far-fetched. Games are not real life and shouldn't take as long to learn a skill in as it takes in real life. And not only is skill-building in real life going to create a productive outcome but it likely isn't doing a repetitive motion for 200 hours straight.

As for the people who just RP and don't train, I used to be one of those people back in my early years on PS after I was introduced to RP around half a year in, because I found RP so interesting I more or less abandoned training/questing/mining platinum for the guild. But the problem with not training but RPing comes when you want to play a character who knows a decent bit of magic (at least most of the tiers) which requires an even worse form of grinding and questing for glyphs, or has some combat skills and could feasibly fight a monster and kill it or in the least fight it without dying in 2-4 hits. But because of your always having to be IC rule you have to grind in order to justify IC skills. Or completely avoid monsters so you don't die even though your character isn't a weakling/coward in how you intend to RP them. Thus, Planeshift's mechanics are putting a restraint on people who want to be fully dedicated to RP.

You can say "If you want it you should work for it." That's fair but when the grind is very time-consuming and very boring, who would want to? In fact people with time restraints may not even be able to.


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Emaline

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2017, 12:15:15 am »
Chill people! Gesh it was just how I had interpreted it as a player as far as the idea was for it I have no idea. That's something to take up with the devs. I personally have maxed maybe close to a dozen skills or so amongst several characters.  It takes time and patience and is crazy hard. But I am guessing with it also being a PvP game that there has to be some work into getting skilled otherwise what's the point? I really have no idea, I was just trying to explain one theory or thought about it.  There has always been and will always be the argument between power levelers and RPers. Devs and Players. It's impossible to make everyone happy. So just do what makes you happy and have fun as long as you're following the rules. And remember Devs make the game and rules, the GM's just enforce them. If you want a change you need to appeal to them. I really don't care, it's their game and if I want to play I have to abide by their rules.  I've heard the devs have said in the past it might just be easier to remove the dummies altogether, who knows? I really don't know

If you are not paying attention to your char and it's doing actions and you don't respond to us then how do we know if you are botting or AFK/Tabbed out? We don't.
Depending on how many times you have been caught/warned and what the action is we usually wait anywhere from 5-20 min. And a verbal warning or tell from us is not considered an official warning most of the time, the record that we can look up in game easily is done with the /warn command you get big red letters across your screen and that stays on your permanent record, if I do a /listwarnings on you and you have several already for that offence I'm not going be so inclined to wait  20 min because I know you know the rules and should be paying more attention. And depending on the actual offense we don't just ban unless you have at least 1 previous /warn for that behavior.

Geoni the GM you speak of was Sorka, he' s no longer with the team and he also had pretty bad internet connections and that's why he did not help with events so much because he could lose his connection at any point and was not reliable enough.

And yep. I crack jokes. That's just who I am. ;) Those that know me know that I'm always the one to lighten up the situation and I was being sarcastic. They would be pointless in a PvP zone.  They were designed for people to test weapon damage on, not to train skills fully on anyways, they already reduced the health and made them take damage in full def to try and keep people from AFK training as much. Ideally I think the idea (again I don't know here this is just my opinion, nothing official) was if you train using mobs that are your level or just slightly above it, you gain skill in your weapon, and your armor, pps all equally at the same time  so they progress together at the same rate and you are interacting with the world. But people are always looking for a faster/better/lazy way of doing things so this seems to have become the norm for training it, though it was never intended this way. *shrugs* I really have no clue just thought I'd point out a few things and be helpful I never said I agreed with the idea that it takes so many hours to fully max a skill.

I'm just rambling on at this point, no idea if any of this will even make sense, so don't  hold it against me! Just trying to show you both sides of the picture some.
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Volki

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2017, 01:46:18 am »
I personally have maxed maybe close to a dozen skills or so amongst several characters.

You've never maxed a magic skill. Don't lie by omission.

It's impossible to make everyone happy.

Using an idiom to support your argument when your argument did not depend on a premise involving 'everyone' is underhanded. What you should have said is this: either the developers or players are happy. And that leads me to believe you either don't play very many other games or you know absolutely nothing about game development. If both are not happy, the game invariably fails. If one of either is not happy, the game suffers and eventually dies. Especially if players are unhappy.

But I am guessing with it also being a PvP game that there has to be some work into getting skilled otherwise what's the point?

Um... The most popular PVP games do not involve a ton of grinding. Or any at all. In fighting games, you unlock characters. In online FPS, the most that's expected is unlocking new weapons and gear. MMOs with PVP have to make grinding fun or part of the PVP so the player is entertained. But your skill is entirely dependent on twitch, aim, and strategy. It's dependent on you. In fact, most PVP games try to match players of similar skill or rank so that you don't get a ridiculous situation like PS has where noob characters are vastly underpowered. A noob can hardly kill a diseased rat. My character can force choke hundreds of mobs within a ~50 foot radius with hardly any effort.

Other games with PVP recognize that grinding takes away from time spent getting into the meat of the game. So they have grinding as part of the PVP or make it fun enough to retain players. This is the same concept I've been trying to explain when it comes to roleplay and grinding. Grinding takes away from time spent roleplaying. In PVP games, people want to get the edge on other players, so they grind. In this game, people want to be able to mechanically match the IC capabilities of their characters, so they grind. You can't stop people from grinding alone without stopping them from playing. (In PS's case, it used to be that serious roleplayers would just ignore mechanics, thus a huge portion of the game, but now they tend to leave the whole game.)

And remember Devs make the game and rules, the GM's just enforce them. If you want a change you need to appeal to them. I really don't care

If you're just a GM and don't really care, don't share your opinion? This thread should be seen as an appeal to the developers.

I've heard the devs have said in the past it might just be easier to remove the dummies altogether

Remove training.

Ideally I think the idea (again I don't know here this is just my opinion, nothing official) was if you train using mobs that are your level or just slightly above it, you gain skill in your weapon, and your armor, pps all equally at the same time  so they progress together at the same rate and you are interacting with the world.

Yep, that's totally how that works in real life. No one uses bags. No one uses targets. No one uses literal training dummies that are shaped like humans so they can actually practice aiming strikes to parts of the body. Instead, you go out and murder people who are your skill level. You don't need sparring partners. All you need is to kill wildlife and other people down on their luck.

So much for 'realism in training'. We have to spend hundreds of hours training but we can't use the same means to train that we would in real life.

Sorry, but I'd rather not have my characters turn into bloodthirsty killers that can't sleep at night due to the number of people they've had to kill just to become master swordsmen or whatever. Killing people is not good for your psyche, even if they are criminals.
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Migg

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2017, 03:20:21 pm »
I may be missing the point here, not a power leveler by far, so please bear with me if I get things wrong. Not going to go personal to the level of quoting and replying to things that struck me as odd, I will try to address what seems to be the gist of what I got by skimming through this thread, which got too long too fast, and too bitter for me to read in full right now.

I was wondering, if people get bored by watching a dummy, why not go train with some mobs instead? Many exist in the arena itself, and the loot will make it worth their while more than the shattered straw of the dummies. Guessing the dummies were put there to help newbies get from level 0 to 1 and from 1 to 2, not power levelers who want to grind from 101 to 102. You want thrill, go fight a boss, that trains you too.

That said, I will make a suggestion to the devs that will help things out, at least IMHO: modify the game so that dummies only allow people to train a skill if it is below level 10. Then let people AFK train at the dummies all they want, knowing they will max at level 10 and will need to move to a mob to advance any further. That will make things more interesting than making the dummies a PvP area, and still allow newbies to train to a level that ensures they don't get instantly killed off by the first kikiri or one-eyed rat they try to fight.

As for Edico's original request, I would say wait it out till your ban ends, and if you are still resolute, log into the account and delete your character, then move on. After all this is only a game, and games are meant to help people have fun. If this one brings you no joy, then look for some other game that suits you better.

Mairon

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2017, 04:13:19 pm »
ayyyy "GMs and devs just wanna see people grind the hell outta their game" officially confirmed
DONT TREAD ON ME

Volki

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Re: I want my account to be deleted.
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2017, 05:48:13 pm »
I was wondering, if people get bored by watching a dummy, why not go train with some mobs instead? Many exist in the arena itself, and the loot will make it worth their while more than the shattered straw of the dummies.

I have done that. I maxed several skills before dummies were introduced. It is worse. Tedious. Annoying. Boring. I'm less bored hitting a training dummy because I can entertain myself with another game or work on something. The loot is not worth it.

It seems you don't know how training works in this game, so I'll describe it as quickly as possible: you find a mob you can train on without dying. That means it's weak enough not to hurt you too much but resilient enough that you get the most practice points out of its lifetime. That's boring. Whether or not there are training dummies, it's boring. But it's the best method because any other would take much longer and be more tedious. Then there's progression points, which don't make any sense from a design or realism perspective. You have to gain PP from killing hundreds of mobs just to purchase stats. The only positive aspect of PP farming is loot.

You want thrill, go fight a boss, that trains you too.

Bosses are meant to be killed by a party of players, firstly, and you do it for the loot. If you are training on a boss, you are doing it wrong. This is such a weird suggestion that I'm doubting you've ever fought a boss or maxed any combat skill.

That said, I will make a suggestion to the devs that will help things out, at least IMHO: modify the game so that dummies only allow people to train a skill if it is below level 10.

I'm pretty sure that's not feasible with PS's code. But, besides that, this is going to drive away players. Rank 10 is extremely weak. If you are not knowledgeable about this game, you should strive to learn more about it before making suggestions that could be harmful to the game.

Also, for the record: it's almost evening on a Friday and there are 11 players online right now. Counting myself who is online just to watch the playercount.
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows