Quests break too easily -- or are NPCs just too dumb?

[MrRedwood]

I've found in my limited time here that quests seem to break awfully easily. Four or more of the quests I've attempted have gotten broken between the NPCs that I have to work with, so that the later ones never respond to any query about the topic. In one case I was able to Discard the quest and do it again, but three others tell me I can't discard them because they can only be done once.

[Deleted Spoilers]

Am I the only one fighting this kind of problem?
--
Richard

[Edit: Please do not post quest logs here the system is being overhauled at the moment please have patience]

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

quests will be menu driven in the next release, relieving much of this problem.

In order for npcs to answer the various things you said someone would have to actually enter those questions and compose answers to them. It might not seem like much but there are a lot of npcs and a lot of potential questions.

[zanzibar]

Apparently, the quest system is going to be completely replaced with a point-and-click multiple choice system.

[Dalgin Xawanda]

Congratulations!  You've just stumbled upon the biggest flaw of the game!!!  NPC's are EXTREMELY picky, they will accept only one response.  Any variation whatsover will get you a stupid response.  In theory, this would be cool, making quests more believable.  However, you have trouble finding it realistic when an NPC repeatedly says "Sorry, my hearing isn't what it used to be.  Come again?"

LIke Xillix and zanzibar said, the next step is a click-and-point method that would ease a lot of stress.  The only free response would be riddle solving.  For now, learn the patterns of speech, and WRITE DOWN EXACTLY WHAT THE NPC'S TELL YOU.  Usually, they word what you are supposed to say to another NPC.

[ThomPhoenix]

LIke Xillix and zanzibar said, the next step is a click-and-point method that would ease a lot of stress.  The only free response would be riddle solving.

The next release will have exactly that.

[Xemmas]

Congratulations!  You've just stumbled upon the biggest flaw of the game!!!  NPC's are EXTREMELY picky, they will accept only one response.  Any variation whatsover will get you a stupid response.  In theory, this would be cool, making quests more believable.  However, you have trouble finding it realistic when an NPC repeatedly says "Sorry, my hearing isn't what it used to be.  Come again?"

That is not true.. many for not saying all accept different responses, but you have to say it right and say it with some brains (not something really stupid that will never work), many quest can vary just with that simple thing...

[MrRedwood]

That is not true.. many for not saying all accept different responses, but you have to say it right and say it with some brains (not something really stupid that will never work), many quest can vary just with that simple thing...

I can understand why the lengthy dialog I included in the first post was redacted, but if you had read that I can't imagine you telling me I didn't include at least one variation "with some brains", to use your arrogant term. I also used the exact phrasing the original NPC had suggested I used, although given that the NPC doesn't exactly provide a word-for-word quote to parrot, there has to be some flexibility. For example, if NPC1 says "Tell Frodo to give you to MacGuffin", then I think Frodo should respond to "Give me the MacGuffin", don't you? Or is that somehow brainless?

I'm astonished at how many posts I've read in this forum where people defend this user interface. One even said something "It's so simple -- just ask the bartender -- they know everything" as if in everyday life that is the most sensible course of action. Yeah, sure:

     Today I got a parking ticket. The police officer wrote it out in front of me, and said "Take this to City Hall."
     So I ask, "Where is City Hall?"
     The officer, sensibly, said "I know where many things are, but not that. You may want to rephrase your question"
     So I said, "City Hall?"
     The police officer said "I don't understand. Can you be more concise?"

     Then it occurred to me! Bartenders know everything. So I went across town to the only bar in town and, sure enough, they were able to tell me.

Yeah, that makes sense to me.

[Dajoji]

Chill. Point and click. Next release. No more drama.

[neko kyouran]

you also had this little gem if you cared to read the stickies.  http://hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=29353.0

[Parallo]

[...] if NPC1 says "Tell Frodo to give you to MacGuffin", then I think Frodo should respond to "Give me the MacGuffin", don't you? Or is that somehow brainless?

Emphasis my own. 'Nuff said.

[Lanarel]

[...] if NPC1 says "Tell Frodo to give you to MacGuffin", then I think Frodo should respond to "Give me the MacGuffin", don't you? Or is that somehow brainless?

Emphasis my own. 'Nuff said.

And even more: the answers you give are parsed into a simpler form and then compared to several variations of keywords. The above example would have your answer changed to "give me macguffin" which should match the keywords. I very much doubt that this will go wrong in game.
Of course in some cases even when 5 different versions of answers are specified as ok (and it even checks in reverse) some one may get stuck trying variations of a 6th version. That does not mean the whole system is rubbish. For the complexity it really is very good, and I for one am going to miss it when the menus are introduced (even though I like those too ).

[MrRedwood]

[...] if NPC1 says "Tell Frodo to give you to MacGuffin", then I think Frodo should respond to "Give me the MacGuffin", don't you? Or is that somehow brainless?

Emphasis my own. 'Nuff said.

Honestly, this is silly. Didn't it occur to you that it was more likely I had mistyped a fictional interaction than seriously expected that an NPC would instruct me to have another NPC give me to another NPC or to an object? As far as I've been able to tell, giving oneself to an NPC hasn't been implemented, but sounds rather kinky.

In other words, I have many times experienced stuff like:

NPC1 says "Tell Frodo to give you the MacGuffin", and then "Give me the MacGuffin", elicits no productive response, and neither does "Give the MacGuffin to me", nor "Give me MacGuffin", nor "Give MacGuffin", nor "about MacGuffin", nor "NPC1 sent me". It isn't that I'm getting 'stuck' on variations of some sixth form, but that I'm trying a dozen significantly different variations and Im despairing whether the quest is broken (which seems likely at that point) or if there is some trick that I haven't mastered.


Re: PM'ing a developer with the phrases that didn't work but that I thought should have (@ http://hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=29353.0) --
I'm usually good at my research, but you're right -- I missed that one.

A better idea would be to create a table of NPC queries -- discussed in that thread but discarded. Instead of a table keyed by NPC and char:

• On an NPC-by-NPC basis, accumulate queries that produced the equivalent of a "Huh?"
• Tabulate the number of times NPC-specific keywords (and, perhaps, game-wide-keywords) are in those queries.
• Tabulate how many queries that contain *no* known keywords on an NPC-by-NPC basis.
• Generate reports periodically showing which NPCs generate the most confusion along with the list of queries and keywords they have seen.

BTW, any idea how long before that point-and-click ui makes life better? I haven't been around long enough to know how aggressive the development cycle is.

[neko kyouran]

its slated for the next release.  when that happens, well, that's when the game breaking bugs get fixed due to a big update done by CS:

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=35236.0

[Rizin]

Soon (tm).

There are various threads on the forum that all come back to the same thing, and since your initial inquiry has been addressed I am locking the thread to avoid beating this rather dead and already overly debated topic farther into the ground.

An aside, Neko, you type faster :/