Feedback wanted: Quest system - Your favourite Challenge

[khoridor]

Here we are. A list of the challenges I found:
Travel challenge: where a player need to go to another NPC and talk him (or give him something).
Hunt challenge: where a player need to give to a NPC some item found on a monster.
Research challenge: where a player need to give to a NPC some item found on the ground or to buy it on a merchant.
Riddle challenge: where a player need to give an answer to a riddle.
Setting challenge: where a player need to give an answer to a setting/history related question.

Riddle challenges are my favorite ones. They have simple qualities. For example, a couple of them were hard enough to not be answered on the spot, keeping a mind busy while mining or traveling or whatnot. Their main flaw is the possibility of spoilers (as in hearing some people spoil in the main chat).

Travel challenges are most annoying when the trip is long, providing trouble without any form of satisfaction (obviously, I'm talking about the endless back and forth visits from Oja to the Fortress). They are fine on a smaller scale though, like inside Hydlaa. More importantly, they can be enjoyable when the NPC conversation is interesting.

Hunt challenges and Research challenges are the same, basically because you don't have to hunt or make the object yourself. For example, I gave a NPC the ulber heart he wanted, said heart I bought from some random fighter. Nothing wrong with that, but the challenges would improve if some quest demanded that the deed be actually performed. This requires some way of marking the loot/objet with the killer/craftman's name, or to mark any action as performed (witnessed) in some way. I see that as a must not only fo provide really challenging quests, but also to give access to myriads of quest possibilities. Currently, one can succeed with any challenge at any skill level.

The best quests would probably involve mixing the challenges. For example, giving clues for a riddle (some of them essential, some barely helpful, some false leads...) through a series of conversations (travel challenge), with optional clues obtained with hunt/research challenges. Optional clues should be available without the NPC sending you to a NPC that could give them; new conversations open, but the player has to decide and find which NPC can help him with the task at hand.

Another type there is (to which I also give higher preference) is the Choice challenge, in which all there is to do is to make a choice, with consequences. There is no failure to that kind of challenge, but later opportunities open while other opportunities are forever discarded. For example, you get an object, but the real thing is to decide which NPC you give it to.

Oh, and I almost forgot: one of the two things I really dislike in games is a time limit. A Time challenge is definitely what I don't want to undertake. Such limit should always be clearly announced before the quest is accepted.

[Vakachehk]

Hunt challenge: where a player need to give to a NPC some item found on a monster.

I'd love those quests if we could go into the Stone Labrenths and do massive quests for the Octarchy!

other than that I hate traveling ones, but Settings ones are the best since they tell you all about Planeshift, to improve Settings Quests have a place where you can get the information (like the Library) but have it much more easyier to find what you are looking for, but still learn at the same time.

[Nivm]

After you've been around for a while, the travelling and hunting might be getting a bit monotonic. So then the researching and settings might be more to your liking.

So when you first started rat fighting and long backtracking they weren't monotonous? These kinds of things are monotonous regardless of time (point in or spent) and only made slightly better by the place. If you don't know where it is, the exploration amounts to randomly wandering around until you find what you're looking for. These sorts aren't really "quests"; they are "menial jobs"...it would be nice if they were called that. A quest is something where you, the player, are getting experience out of doing it. The greatest quest is one that gives you an experience you can apply to real life.

[Geoni]

Traveling: That's fine, but it gets quite annoying sometimes. Most of the quests should include traveling out of the city, and it gets a bit tiresome after a while.

Hunt: That's ok once in a while, for quests that have a glyph in the end should cause one to have to fight something, which, they usually do. I also think that it depends on the npc. If the npc is weak and it needs something, then he/she/kra would want you to go kill a monster to get that stuff for them.

Research: Personally I love these kinds of quests, but they should be for quests that give you more tria than experience or access to something. It also should be something that would combine with the riddle quests once in a while.

Riddle: I do like these once in a while, but they shouldn't be too far-fetched. Like said before, these can be somewhat messy because it's hard to type in the answer exactly how the npc is programmed to accept it.

Settings/History: These should be in some of the newbie quests, which are the quests that reward the player with a book. This way new players are forced to know the settings before they choose a job or hobby.

[Candy]

Travel: These are fine, but only if they're short. Having to run back and forth between EBD and Ojaveda is lame.

Hunt/Gather: These are the staple quests of every MMO, so I say keep 'em. Again, as long as the amount of what you need is not ridiculously high, they're great. Seeing as these tend to be PL-centric, perhaps a nice chunk of extra xp after gathering the items would be nice, particularly since people will often just buy the items. I also sort of agree with Khoridor - there should be at least some of these where you have to kill/make/buy things yourself. Of course, the latter ought to have better rewards than the former.

Riddle: These are awesome. Only thing is, we need more hint options so we don't have to get spoiled when we're stuck. Also, I'd like to see more where the nature of the quest itself hints at the riddle's answer.

Settings: I've got mixed feelings about these - while I like learning details about the world my character is in, I don't like having to do a quest specifically to learn them. I like that one where you go read things to research for an NPC, and the one where you gather information for a certain bard to spin their yarn. However, I'm of the opinion that if more of these quests are implemented, they should reward the adventurer with obscure information not every character would know (and some quests already do this - I like the way the Black Flame stuff is handled, for instance). The basic stuff should be more easily accessible - NPC dialogue, the libraries, descriptions of objects (like the bottles and paintings in Kadas) and stuff like that, rather than having to jump through hoops for it.

[Falcon Avian]

Also please....None of those "One small favor" quests >_< Every game has one and everyone hates them the most...

[khoridor]

Something that just popped to my 11th neuron: Some games have quests where you need to accompany someone to a distant place. These make great Travel challenges. In the Gothic series, for example, some NPCs follow you, some actually guide you; and they are not helpless if danger occurs.

Although it can't be done exactly the same way in a MMORPG, other ways can be thought of. For example, let's say NPC1 wants you to deliver some animal to NPC2, and this animal is too big to be put in your inventory, so it follows you, at its own pace. I can think of many ways to make that one more amusing, without even resorting to hungry mobs.

The system doesn't support that so far, but it's not that different from the pets mechanism, and you can keep it noted for later use.

[Dracaeon]

I've never been much of a quester, never have been [I haven't even finished the EBD quests].  I give it to one reason: All the quests I've done [or most of 'em, at least] are boring.  All the quests I've done are also the newbie quests.  There are two things a newb is going to do when he/she/kra first starts: Talk to a real person for some help, or get a quest.  Now, the quests we give em shouldn't be boring, because otherwise it'll make em leave [and, in fact, has happened to one of my friends.  He's still mad at me about it].  I have no idea how to make an easy quest interesting [or at least newbie interesting], unless it becomes some sort of optional supplemental to the quest.

Anyway, thats my rant.

[Candy]

Something that just popped to my 11th neuron: Some games have quests where you need to accompany someone to a distant place. These make great Travel challenges. In the Gothic series, for example, some NPCs follow you, some actually guide you; and they are not helpless if danger occurs.

Although it can't be done exactly the same way in a MMORPG, other ways can be thought of. For example, let's say NPC1 wants you to deliver some animal to NPC2, and this animal is too big to be put in your inventory, so it follows you, at its own pace. I can think of many ways to make that one more amusing, without even resorting to hungry mobs.

The system doesn't support that so far, but it's not that different from the pets mechanism, and you can keep it noted for later use.

Oh god. Escort quests are horrible. Please never ever implement them.

*Candy makes puppy-eyes at everyone reading this to reinforce her point*

[Nivm]

 Wow, which games escort quests have you had experience with? They aren't always that bad, and they tend to be far more interesting when your companion is interesting. Like the ones where your quest changes halfway through as you receive a new quest from your escorted.

[weltall]

to make them slightly interesting you must make them talk and say something interesting. but an unsupportable case is when the escorted walks at a speed you can't gather with your char and you have to use a controller to reduce speed by keeping the analog stick at 1/3 (annoying ^ infinite) or have to stop continually

[drJack]

Wow, how many informations. I appreciate very much your attitudes, everyone.

During the quest, the story around Lucky develops, you hear some things about him, and the plot is fun. Another example are some quests with Zak, where you get to know a bit more about his background.

Ok. You mean complex plotlines.

I'll try to condense all the other answers.
- Too repetitive challenges are boring. Travel challenge is nice only the first times, but a quest full of travilling could bother some players. Especially for long travels.
The same is for hunting. Continue to kill rats is boring. But going in interesting places (ex. Stone labytinth) or killing special monster (ex. to get Glyph rewards) could be ok.
- Riddles. Seems many like them, especially if they are tied with other quests or setting elements. Another suggestion was: to give clues through conversation or other inside quest elements. Flaw: 1) they could have more than one answer, and this could create frustration if not implemented. 2) there is the possibility of spoilers.
- Setting quest. Flaw: they could be too easy.

Fetch quest: are a mix of Travel (principal and necessary) and Hunt or Gather (optional)

I'll take not of some engine issues:
1)

Hunt challenges and Research challenges are the same, basically because you don't have to hunt or make the object yourself. For example, I gave a NPC the ulber heart he wanted, said heart I bought from some random fighter. Nothing wrong with that, but the challenges would improve if some quest demanded that the deed be actually performed.

2)

In the Gothic series, for example, some NPCs follow you, some actually guide you; and they are not helpless if danger occurs.

The good thing in escort quests are that you can know better the NPC and that he can relate to the invonroment. For now, we can only use it like any other fetch-pet (travel) quest. Thanks Khoridor, you made good reports.

About time limit quest:
I've read no quest with this challenge until now.

I also take note that the most reported request is: deploy choices with consequences internal in quests like these ones.
- decide which NPC you give the object (or the information) of the quest.
- decide how to finish a quest (ex. combat or conversation)
Any other suggestion?

If you don't know where it is, the exploration amounts to randomly wandering around until you find what you're looking for. These sorts aren't really "quests"; they are "menial jobs"...it would be nice if they were called that.

About this. Well, this is also a way to make players socialize, they have to ask around. What do you think about this? (Nivm, but also any other who'd like to express their opinion)

Did I understand something wrong?
Any other opinion or clarification until now?

[Rigwyn]

Multiplayer quests could be quite fun. I know you don't have code to support this, but logically it should not be that hard to implement.

Here's some examples of what the players might experience:

Player1 talks to npc1. Npc1 is depressed and tells player1 that so and so has been missing for days... A ransome note appeared in the laanx temple.. It stated that she would be returned unharmed in exchange for 100 million tria..
Npc1 pleads with player1 to assemble a party. Npc1 will lend the party a number of items to aide them.
Player 1,2 and 3 return a few days later to complete the quest...
A few dynamic npc's are created somewhere on the map (perhaps the gobble huts in this case) and the players are told to go. Npc1 might provide a vague hint - indicating the basic direction in which they should look.
The dynamic npc's could be permissioned so that only quest members can interact with them - this would prevent a random killing from spoiling the quest.
Completion could entail freeing the victim npc and perhaps returning some of the borrowed items.

The borrowed items could be weapons, glyphs, armor, or even ordinary items that might require some unusual out-of-the-box usage. Ie. You might be given an ornate lead key... But the trick to solving the quest might be to use the lead in the key to poison someone ( rather than opening a lock )

As for rp, a group of players that know how to rp could turn a quest like this into a very interesting rp if they chose to roleplay the adventure.

While this particular scenario might be used a few times with different name and places, other types of quests could be made using the same mechanics.
 

[Nivm]

If you don't know where it is, the exploration amounts to randomly wandering around until you find what you're looking for. These sorts aren't really "quests"; they are "menial jobs"...it would be nice if they were called that.

About this. Well, this is also a way to make players socialize, they have to ask around. What do you think about this? (Nivm, but also any other who'd like to express their opinion)

I have found my way to really hating that design. Every time I get instructions, they lead me in the wrong direction, or I find another fork in the road halfway through; having to search all the way down both paths to find my target. If I get a guide, I lose them shortly because of regular crashes. You would expect that if someone (quest giver) was desperate enough to entrust a random stranger with their parcel, they would make sure he knew where he was going. In real life they would even test to make sure you will remember.

 To elaborate on my last post, it would be nice to have more quests where you are not totally sure what is going to happen, but are driven through them anyway. One's that give you the feeling that life so often does, where you are swept away into the unknown and chaotic. These would probably be the first "timed" quests, where once you finish the first step in the quest there is no turning back, and you need to push forward. Just need to make sure the timer is only going when you are logged in (just like the food, fluid, and sleep requirements that might one day go in), perhaps with a delay right after you log in to get your bearings. As an example, think of the player acting as an extra hand on a trading boat. The captain isn't very cautious, so 'e takes a dangerous route and gets caught in a storm (or attacked), leading the player into a shipwrecked or trapped situation they need to get out of. Both of these could also be done with teams of players, as the captain might need more than two extra hands, he might also know the danger he is getting in and looks for help that can handle themselves, without telling them the danger.

[khoridor]

Reading all the above input, and seeing how people may have some specific dislikes, remind me of something I encountered many times through the game. Dialogs roughly go like this: - Would you help me with something? - Yes! (---You've got a quest---) - Ok, here is my problem...

I believe that a NPC should have told me a bit more before I answered; if only for the sake of a more "natural" conversation. Now, it makes even more sense if people are willing to refuse quests because they are of a type they don't enjoy at all.

So, avoiding details, the NPC would say: I have a [tiny/casual/serious] problem that requires muscle/investigation/hunting/crafting skills/a long journey/whatever... Would you help me?
Even better if, before answering, a coloured warning message annouces the type of quest we are close to accepting, when the case is clear. As in "You are being offered an Escort challenge", so that Candy can pass, for example.



On a different subject: Group quests make sense in a MMORPG, yet they are not the only way to take advantage of a multi-player game. You can have Trade quests, for example, in which players barter, acting as intermediates between NPCs. An obvious other possibility is a Competing challenge. It can be as simple as a race to a mob (another useful case where mobs activate, or even instanciate, for marked characters only) or a fist fight, up to something as complex as any other quest.

Engine requirements/developments aside, one flaw (in some specific scenarios) is a competitor logging off and never coming back, blocking the other one. Quest launch design is also a bit complex, for the players must be synchronised (waiting and maybe called later to start).
Well, complex or not, I felt compelled to mention it. I won't mention competitive group chall... oops! Sorry...