Planeshift War

[Under the moon]

I'll toss you folks a bone here, since you seem to be floundering about so much. PS and its players, as they are, can not support the reason, roleplay, or repercussions of a real war, or even a real battle. The 'wars' of the past in PS give great example of this. Nothing is gained, and nothing is lost, and the 'war' just continues to drag on until it degrades into griefing or people just get sick of it and ignore the war. What starts as fun ends as a pain in the rear.

"But we want to have a war!" you say?

Then do so. Only don't try to make it a 'real' war with 'real' reasons. Don't make 'sides' based on alignment, or reason for fighting.

"But... that makes no sense at all. I thought you were supposed to be the best roleplayer ever. What happened to you?" you say?

It makes perfect sense in a world where war has no real repercussions to have a fake war. What do I mean by fake war? Simple. Battle drills. Supposed, everyone in the cities are supposed to be ready to defend the cities at a moment's notice. In order to do that, you would set up battle drills. Roleplay reason: You are practicing in the case of a real raid from baddies.

This is an idea steuben and I came up with a few years back, but never got around to putting it on.

Teams are picked, assigned, or freely joined. One side is the defending side, and the other is the attackers, simulating a raid from the Stone Labyrinths. Yes, that would mean you are roleplaying that your characters are roleplaying bad (or good) guys. Since it is 'not real', good or evil characters can join either side. Since it is a 'real' battle drill, and as such, real roleplay, your characters can have full activity in it without inventing any background for it. Since it is only a 'fake' war, there are no real repercussions for your characters to unrealistically deal with after it is over. There is not reason, really, for anyone not to join in because of 'alignment'.

In the end you have all things met for a fun time.

[bloodedIrishman]

This is diverting. Don't have the time or energy for it. I made my point (slightly changed from "no" to "little").

[verden]

No, it is not diverting. You opened this door. People who have been on the system for a considerable amount of time simply have various reasons why we do not support "wars" in PlaneShift. Whether they rely on mechanics or RP, or a combination of both, there is simply little point in having a "serious war" in PlaneShift. The outcome of such scenarios cannot be determined in any way that can be even partially construed as legitimate or balanced, whether one relies on RP, mechanics, or a mixture of both. And below is me favorite quote. UtM, you crack me up!

PS and its players, as they are, can not support the reason, roleplay, or repercussions of a real war, or even a real battle.

[Zon]

I should say that having a non-rp war is impossible. What I mean by non-rp is if you do not type on the message box, all you do is press one key and change to a stance. I mean it is not even worth it. There are many things that would not be included. Strategies will not be included. There are no strategies in duels. all you do is run around. Include magic with that, then it will be nonesense. Imagine having a lvl 100 character killing you from far away, then spamming, spamming. Keep in mind that other guilds are not Magic based. Some other characters would also have skills that they do not have and do not have skills that they have [implemented and not implemented skills]. This also goes with the items

However, if you do an RP war, that with typing on the message box, it would be much better BUT very hard to accomplish. You would need two guilds that will highly roleplay. It will require talking in OOC [that is what the channel is for]. If two guilds can accomplish this, it will be a very good feat. Keep in mind that it also requires for outsiders to join in the roleplay, not the war itself but the gossips, the betting, the civilian deaths, alliances?.There are very many different factors - which includes the beginning [how it starts?], the war itself [the roleplay], the resolution, and the conclusion (will there be a treaty? Will one side ask for help from outsiders? compensation? One side starts hiding?).

This whole thing works like a story, it needs to be planned in order for it to happen. Unlike making stories, you go with the flow.

[Illysia]

This whole thing works like a story, it needs to be planned in order for it to happen. Unlike making stories, you go with the flow.

Stories... goodness no, that takes too much work and writing... You will have to probably work that out for months before you could implement it and might include dialogue.



Sorry, I couldn't resist. But UTMs idea sounds really good and honestly, if you get people in the habit of drilling that could lead to the ability to have actual wars later on as there will be a framework already set up for it. Nice UTM.

[Zon]

This whole thing works like a story, it needs to be planned in order for it to happen. Unlike making stories, you go with the flow.

Stories... goodness no, that takes too much work and writing... You will have to probably work that out for months before you could implement it and might include dialogue.



Sorry, I couldn't resist. But UTMs idea sounds really good and honestly, if you get people in the habit of drilling that could lead to the ability to have actual wars later on as there will be a framework already set up for it. Nice UTM.

I was not stating that they are stories. I was stating that they are LIKE stories.  They are like novels in a case that there is a beginning a middle and an end.

[Ceromas]

Strategies will not be included. There are no strategies in duels. all you do is run around. Include magic with that, then it will be nonesense. Imagine having a lvl 100 character killing you from far away, then spamming, spamming. Keep in mind that other guilds are not Magic based. Some other characters would also have skills that they do not have and do not have skills that they have [implemented and not implemented skills]. This also goes with the item

That situation could be easily reversed..

I'm sure a 100 level fighter-type could kill many more people with much more ease..

[Illysia]

@Zon: I was being silly and there is nothing wrong with it being exactly like a story. You can tell a story and still leave it open ended enough that there is room for people to choose what they are doing. I did that for two RPs and in both cases it didn't go the way I had hoped but everybody had fun and that is the important part. The only problem with a story is that it can get cut short before you intend for it to.

[Zon]

That situation could be easily reversed..

I'm sure a 100 level fighter-type could kill many more people with much more ease..

I do not think so. In the game mechanics the game is now in, Magic will always win. Magic users will win without being touched. A level 100 fighter-type can't kill many, they need to time the speed right, Do not forget about the armour level. There is no antimagic to compensate with weapon defenses.

@Illysia: 

[Bonifarzia]

I perfectly agree with UtM's idea, which is probably the simplest and only justification one could provide. Also, this would leave the decision to participate to individuals rather than to guilds.

I do not think so. In the game mechanics the game is now in, Magic will always win. Magic users will win without being touched. A level 100 fighter-type can't kill many, they need to time the speed right, Do not forget about the armour level. There is no antimagic to compensate with weapon defenses.

Playing a character who focuses on close combat, I would say that even though some aspects of magic are currently not balanced (I commented on this elsewhere), fighters still have a fair chance against battle mages, also or especially when the use of potions is allowed. This could be observed in practice during the latest champion's cup.

[Vakachehk]

uhhhh so I wan't a reason blah blah blah so I come up with a starter reason and then everyone says I can't plan it... So what do you want?

Ok people its just war in a game, not like planning WW2?

Well so far I came up with this.
From some RP events such as murderings and robberies etc. (I am not refuring this to anyone btw, just sounds like someone I have talked to before.) Vakachehk meets someone whos father is an outlaw and gets rather protective this person is very young and begins telling Vakachehk a story about his father and how his father is very aggressive, his father ended up killing this little boys mothers, and now treats his son badly but setting early times for his son to come home, makes his son do loads of chores around the house, etc. This is when Vakachehk realizes about the evil things Yliakum has in it. So one day vakachehk was traveling to Hydlaa and came across an angry mob of Clamods who then ambushed Vakachehk for tria, Vakachehk was left alive just with cuts and bruises, Vakachehk then gets taken to Hydlaa by his great Rivnak. When Vakachehk gets to Hydlaa he quickly buys some potion, and by the time hes finally there he goes to bed. In the night while Vakachehk was sleeping in Kada-Els he awakes to a screen of someone in the room next to him. He gets out of bed and stumbles to the room, finding the door locked shut. He then uses some Crystal Way to smash the door open (Vakachehk only know a small amount of CW but just managed) When he gets in there he see the robber jump out the window, and sees a dead strangled, Girl Dermorian lying in the bed. Vakachehk ran out side yelling, but could not find the murderer. The next day things go alright and nothing serious happens. Not until the next day that Vakachehk was still in Hydlaa and gets pulled into an event where another Girl Dermorian (the other Dermorians Sister) was murdered in her house. The murderer was then found out, but Vakachehk explanes what he has seen in the last few days. Which then everyone begins getting worried (don't want to God mod here) And which people feel uncomfortable and after that a few more murderings have happened in Hydlaa, Ojaveda and Gugrontid which begins getting some Yliakum communities (guilds) worried then in the next edition of the Hydlaa, Ojaveda and Gugrontid paper states Vakachehks story. Then (hopefully) the whole of Yliakum begins getting very worried, also a robbery happens in a guild house (any guild who wishes to volunteer, nothing will actually get stolen) which then a large group of outlaws get found out, coursing a war to begin as the outlaws begin starting the war with there other outlaw friends and more end up joining there side. That is a way the war could begin.

Sorry that was long!

[Vakachehk]

Well you know what I really am getting annoyed with PlaneShift now? Well everyone is too fussy, and nothing ends up happening for the sack of the player, I actually think things are getting over the top realistic and it is begining to drive me crazy! I remember when I first joined Planeshift the community was FAR more active than it is now (active meaning not more but more willing to do stuff) Yes there were about double the amount of players then but it was still far more funner to play. I think if this keeps up, Akaiddo will be right PlaneShift is a dying game!

What needs to be done is just some crazy out there fun, having a nice semi RP semi non-rp (being non descriptive unless more than 50% of the people who are in the fight want it to be) then why not give it a go. I mean for fucks sack who gives a crap its a game. Have some fun people. This is no competition on whose the best RPer. I don't think Talad made this game for everyone to be overly careful and nothing to be happening. He and all the devs spent there time so that you can enjoy and have a bit of fun along with the RP.

I remember when I started basically everyone wouldn't care so long as it was within the Settings. That is what kept me staying playing PS, but now I am seeing a lot of reasons for leaving.

[drJack]

Disclaimer: if you're bored of theory of war skip the first lines. At the end of this reply I added a pratical example of what you can do.

... That is a way the war could begin.

The begin is complex, but easier than the middle .
How you handle the center of this  "event" is more difficult.

What we want as a challenge? Let's try to be specific. (and if we want we can simulate all like suggested from UTM)
- Killing between players. Ok.
- Limit: use only of a limited number of potion?
- Limit: only in some place?
- What about commerce? War depends also on production.
- What about informations? Are there allowed spy and double gamers? What they can do? Maybe we can create some "secret base" if the spy found them and the attackers conquer it the defenders will lose something.
- What about time? Will we apply a defined time limit?
- Magical Research? Can we apply it in some manner?
- And resources? Mineral, and what else? The team who take more will have more possibility to win usually.

And the end is a little of medium complexity.
How do you know if someone win?
It will be only one or more matches, who remains alive win? Or maybe we need a surrender declaration? Or we need a external judge? Or is there a flag? Or you have to arrive in a place to win?

But reading through your minds! the lines I think to see that you want some movement. But I see many other request from you. Some ask for RP, some ask for new players and some other ask for stories. There are many ways to create movement, and some of them are simpler than wars (who need also almost a little intervention of NPC), there are tournaments, celebrations, inside stories of the guild.

But I know... all of this is theoretical. And someone could be bored by it. So...

A PRATICAL EXAMPLE, of something applicaple now

To create a war training simulation is really easy. (and you do not need any NPC stories... I assume NPC intervention is a big issue, tell me if I'm wrong)
Phase 1: recruitment.
----START----
Phase 2: daily (or weekly, as you prefer) objective (ex. creating x material, enter in enemy base, etc).
Phase 3: confront.
----END----
Phase 4: points. (and ranking?)
Phase 5 * optional: some sub objective more casual, like spy stories.

And could be all driven by the players.

[garoninja]

Liking the idea. Game isnt equipped for us to go to war though. If we do though, I so call the BD 

[Elady]

The problem with a war in PS is also the same problem I have with most of the good vs evil type RPs.  You can't really accomplish anything when "killing" someone means it will be a bit over 30 minutes before the "killed" person is back at full strength. In war the object is to kill enough people and destroy enough things so that one side is to weak to continue. This is hard to do when the dead keep coming back to life

Instead of a war I think you want something more like a war game. I think something more along the lines of a Capture the flag type game is what would work well.  Two sides can be picked ( be then from specific guilds or independent characters or a combination), pick a map  and give each side a flag object. Give each side time to hide their flag and set up a strategy and then let the games begin. The game is over when one side's flag has been captured and returned to a designated place.  This should give people the "fun" of a war ( ie the chance of pvp combat with different strategies ) but there is a definitive end game situation that can be met. Something like this can be set up between players, you just need players for each team and maybe a couple of neutral players to be Refs ( like maybe to monitor map exit points to make sure one side doesn't sneak their flag out of bounds for example.

There is even a IC reason for having these capture the flag type games since it can be seen as exercises to help get the population ready for a possible invasion for the Stone Labyrinth.