A Commander, or a Leader?

[bloodedIrishman]

Hello,
The first purpose for this topic is to define some fairly common roles as a guild master.

In my opinion, a commander is someone who may or may not take the input of his or her members but makes decisions based on their own credo, and not in the literal sense, shouts their decisions and turns a deaf ear to valid complaints.

A good leader organizes and brings out the best talent that each of his or her members may have. They listen, discuss and bring consensus and accord to the guild.

In my opinion, a good leader is the kind of guild master that brings out the best in each member. When a person feels encouraged and listened to, they will reach their potential. This is unlike a commander  who will push their own agenda, whether those under him or her are forgotten.

The second reason for making this topic, is to have players put the kind of guild master they think is best, and any experiences of a commander or leader they may have had.

[Raekh]

First thing to come on my mind is, the size of the guild.

I was one of two to lead a small guild, the two leaders of us always strived for providing a family-like ambience, one to make everyone feel comfortable, while paying respect.
I think, being a leader in such an environment is more useful, since it unites.
As unity might become a more difficult to handle topic in a larger and growing anonymous grouping, having a commander, a more cold and recklessly seeming leader might be a more useful option, since that commander, even if he would like to be a leader, could have troubles to maintain a family-like ambience to his fellowship, but had to make sure to maintain the groupings frame. Of course such a commander could, then, make his staff to maintain such an ambience the same way... you know?

I think this is a question of a group's size.

[bloodedIrishman]

No, it doesnt. I personally believe it doesnt. It's completely up to that individual guild master. Whether he or she wants to unite or pummel into submission. Size only means that the people themselves have to put forth more of an effort to have the same atmosphere a small guild has more easily.

[Raekh]

Of course this is merely my own experience, but from this point of view, starting a guild and wheeling it forward, first of all means, to set up stuff, to organize events, be it events for particularly own members or even to the entire playing crowd. Organizing something like this can mean a lot, time, effort and focus.

I agree, it might depend on the time left - 24 hours in total, not more not less. I think there is a limit, or better, a balance to be found, between number of members to be taken care of personally and organization. For one it might be 10 members, for the next one 100, but still, with growing numbers a leader turning into a commander would be mandatory.
But even in the last case, an ambience, in my definition, might be uphold by subordinaries.

[Koios]

I'd like to look at this with a RL example:
Before the industrial revolution with the big factories coming, the relationship between the worker and employer was of a familiar nature. The employer would care for the worker and make sure he was generally happy with the situation.
With the industrial revolution coming and big factories took over, the employer didn't have the time or memory to keep track of all the workers, so the relationship became more authoritative. This is when the unions was formed to make sure that the individual worker had rights and wouldn't get trampled on.

Now if we set this into PS we get that small guilds will most likely benefit of a Leader as defined earlier. The bigger guilds however might benefit more of a Commander with a "union" consisting of trustworthy members that more or less are dealing with everyday business and report to the Head of the Guild. With more people in a governing position, the closer you'll come to them being individual Leaders.

Just my two tria

[bloodedIrishman]

Well said Koios. You're two tria are well spent. 

[Akkaido Kivikar]

Well, I think you're making a few silly mistakes when it comes to your definition of "commander".

I'd say I'm more of a Commander than a Leader for the Kore Irka Clan, in the IC sense anyway. My rank, Nekaduky'a, translates to Master. The Kore Irka Clan is an IC military organisation, and as such is lead by a commander, not some pansy leader, which everyone seems to think is the politically correct way to go about running a clan.

That said, OOC I am more of a "leader", as I go to my clansmen for advice and ideas for our RPs etc., and treat them all with the amount of respect deserved by modern society.

So yeah, IC I'm the Commander, OOC I'm a Leader.

My two tria. And in my opinion the best way to run a military guild/clan.

[LigH]

I've been (and I am) in several guilds. So my expreiences with the Guild Masters are just as different.

I started in the possibly most famous "anti-guild" so far, in "Janner's Way". The members are individuals. The Guild Master is merely a "manager" - at most the "advisor" part of the leader, and surely not at all the commander. The structure is as loose as possible for still being a guild, technically.

Still, the bonding was tight, and when the character Janner disappeared, the members had been in a deep trouble. That was the time for Illori to found "Ruby Reign". But she was really a lot a commander. That might have been necessary to keep the rest of the guild together, but finally split it as well. More leadership than command could have been better.

In the "Way of the Hammer", people will see the "Keeper of the Hammer" preferably as leader. And all the keepers we had so far, did a great job leading the guild, without commanding it around too much. But so are dwarfs: pride is beard, fun is beer.

[perlyboy]

some hypothesises:

- A true leader is a commander from time to time

- One who leads can only be defined by one's followers

- To give commands does not imply one is a commander

- A true leader acts on behalf of one's guild most of the time - if not: always- (I have fellow leaders that think this way in heart)

- A leader can thus make decisions not on behalf of guildmembers, but on behalf of the guild, and hereby can or may look like a commander

- A commander in my eyes as Akkaido stated is only one of many tasks of a guildleader

- A leader is nothing without guildmembers, therefor should act in the best interest of the guildmembers, acting -not trying- to make a guild function in the way the majority of the guild wants. The leader (in my eyes, hypothetically speaking) can therefor not be a commander in the truest sense of the word

- A leader who is loved by his/ her members, will have comments from his/ her members in this thread  

With regards,

Perlan Cernun
Grandmaster of the Masters of Move
Leader since 13th of October 2007

[LigH]

- A leader is nothing without guildmembers

What is a king without a nation? - Just a man with a crown.

Sorry for this self-quote, completely out of its original topic.

[Makron]

Greeting, 'Grandma'

some hypothesises:

- A true leader is a commander from time to time

- One who leads can only be defined by one's followers

- To give commands does not imply one is a commander

- A true leader acts on behalf of one's guild most of the time - if not: always- (I have fellow leaders that think this way in heart)

- A leader can thus make decisions not on behalf of guildmembers, but on behalf of the guild, and hereby can or may look like a commander

- A commander in my eyes as Akkaido stated is only one of many tasks of a guildleader

- A leader is nothing without guildmembers, therefor should act in the best interest of the guildmembers, acting -not trying- to make a guild function in the way the majority of the guild wants. The leader (in my eyes, hypothetically speaking) can therefor not be a commander in the truest sense of the word

- A leader who is loved by his/ her members, will have comments from his/ her members in this thread  

With regards,

Perlan Cernun
Grandmaster of the Masters of Move
Leader since 13th of October 2007

Yes, I agree
A leader is better
A commander is military ->Not good thing

[Timmothy Perriwinkle]

People fundamentally want to be commanded and controlled. It's why anarchy doesn't work.

[dragnoor]

Creating a Guild is simple. Leading one isnt. In fact I think alot of Guild Masters dont realise the commitment thats involved.
                                                                                                                                                      There are no "Rules", to being a Guildmaster. Leader/Commander/Advisor, are all interdependant on the relationship with guildies. Some can need any or all of the componants required to progress. For that is the sole purpose of a Guildmaster, to impart his knowledge to them.
Loyalty is not given its earned. Enforcing credo will initially work but as Guildies grow older they will find their own way. If their credo is different to the Guildmaster, And he isnt willing to bend a little then he will lose them. Some guilds are Martial, others more relaxed, Others choose Rp over PL or vica versa. ALL Guilds function with independance & rules. Guildmasters throughout Yliakum must respect other Guilds.
If we want peace.
My respects to those Guildmasters that know me as a Dermorian of my word. That is one thing a Guildmaster has to have.

To Wealth, power, & knowledge. For that we ALL share as a goal, is it not ?

Dragnoor
 - Guildmaster : Nexus of Devotion -

[Vannaka]

You guys are all wrong, you gotta show 'em who's boss!  If I was the leader of a guild I'd say, "Yo Perly, make me a sammich!" and if he don't do it... flog that lazy little punk and put his butt back on the street.  Total obedience or you're gone.  Zero tolerance.  It's the only way to do it, and if you disagree with me I don't even want to hear it because U KEN NEVA B IN MA GUILD!!!!!

[bloodedIrishman]

You guys are all wrong, you gotta show 'em who's boss!  If I was the leader of a guild I'd say, "Yo Perly, make me a sammich!" and if he don't do it... flog that lazy little punk and put his butt back on the street.  Total obedience or you're gone.  Zero tolerance.  It's the only way to do it, and if you disagree with me I don't even want to hear it because U KEN NEVA B IN MA GUILD!!!!!

I was going to write a satirical post and ridicule you, but then the thread would digress and the topic would not longer be clean, helpful. Please, next time you have a thought...make me a sammich and shut your trap.