The NPC Re-factor and You

[Shoraal]

what I definitely appreciate is the fact that the mobs seem not to auto-attack... especially in the load zones, that was among the worst side effects.

where did the rogues in Oja go? eaten by Arangmas?

[Rigwyn]

What ? No more rogues in Oja ?
Damn.. that blows my theory about their presence... I thought their presence and activity indicated that the local guards had for unknown reasons chose to overlook their deeds.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

you aren't looking hard enough ryg

[Earowo]

i am extremely happy with the ammount of monsters there are, there are huge groups now, which is good for monsters which stick in packs, and the oja road which was famous for ulbers is back in busness, aint run by velnishi no more...

but a suggestion for arangmas
is that diffrent types should have diffrent sizes, so there are from tiny ones, like mabey forest ones, to really big ones mabey could be sand aragmas
just my thoughts ^^

[Rigwyn]

The placement of the rogues is interesting. This also makes more sense than the rogue behavior
That was displayed previously.

Their silent, disciplined presence is a somewhat chilling.

Other npc's that I saw were nicely placed too.. It seems that at good bit
Of thought went into the placement.

[LigH]

When the swapped splash texture overlays (grass <=> dirt) will be fixed in the heightfield maps, then we will also see again where good places for typical "sand" or "grass" animals are; e.g. the serpent path opposite to the Explorer Outpost (ojaroad2), which leads e.g. to a platform where you can look over the gold mine with the Ulbernauts, used to look very dry, and I always hoped that that should be a place where insects would nestle in their little cavities/dens. Furthermore, there are strange "sugar loaf" hills in the outer area of the Bronze Doors (bdouter) which look like having holes, could that be designed as home for small creatures?
__

P.S.: Should Consumers be allowed to run? Recently I was almost caught by one on ojaroad2, I could only escape by running onto the Bridge of the Fallen (after losing half of my health after 2 bites)...

[Roled]

Well I hesitated to post here, then I thought, what the hey.. it's just my opinion.... so here goes...

I for one REALLY REALLY don't like all these critter bugs! Why are there so many bugs and so few mammal like creatures? Seems not logical in evolutionary terms. And if there were so many bugs, wouldn't there be a bunch of bird creatures to munch on 'em?

Where are the benign herbivores?... like the WONDERFUL FANTASTIC Rivniks!! Thank you thank you thank you creators of the Rivniks!

And wouldn't there be little baby difters in the lakes and ponds and such? Since they eat fish?

As far as the points go, I (again just my opinion) am frustrated by how hard it is to earn points, except by questing, which my main has now done massive numbers of... it seems pretty impossible now to continue on his character motivation, it seems unattainable to earn enough points to afford magic training at the higher levels, not to mention the cost.  I have found in the two months since the new version I've really lost interest in playing.. it's too much of a grind, and the folks I used to rp with, many seem to be gone now. So what's the point, if the rp factor is so diminished AND the ability to advance my character's goals is so hindered by the mechanics?

So Roled is pretty frustrated...
Just thought I'd let you know.

and
THANK YOU for the rivniks!

Yers,
Roled Rolak
SoX

[Shoraal]

I can understand quite a bit of what Roled writes here.

I am still fairly new to PS, but I play it a lot and I found into the mechanics rather easily...

We have a problem, that is obviously not really solvable by now, unless you "cut" on some old characters...

What do I mean?

You see in this thread already, that there are obviously plenty long-time players who earned their blue jumpsuit and red cape somewhere in the past.
well, IMHO, in a RPG setting, such "omnipotent" characters should simply not exist.
One problem seems to be that there is no limit to the stats - every Tom Dick and Harry can have 200... why is this so? This is ridiculous. I would opt for some limit, partially race-based (like, a Kran can be strong, but nnot too bright, e.g.), or - which also makes sense - by background (like, your stats can rise maximally to 1.5 x original value, or maybe 2x original value, and then no more).
If you want a powerhouse with STR like a titan, fine, but accept you won't be top notch in other areas - imagine the NPC Malco. He is really STRONG... but ot-nay oo-tay ight-bray, to say the least.
Vice versa, take Levrus - a good alround wizard, but frail and would not want to fight physically, would he?
Well, there are chars out there that obviously outweigh all those extremes, and that is what makes the whole stat system somewhat ridiculous.

Next part - PP and cost of training... how is one to get where one needs to get to fit a certain role with those few points? And on the other hand, where did those bluesuits (see above) get all those points? The relation is not okay. Especially when I find chars  that started after mine - and I play intensively - suddenly have such exceeding stat bars... how is that possible? Stats are propably too bloody cheap, compared to skills - which actually make up a char - and for which I get far too few PP and money to train them. Either lower the cost, or raise the amount one gets, both in Quests as well as by killing monsters... Just had an Alt of mine kill a "Frost Arangma" - well, I did not get hurt, but it took pretty long, and than a mere 2 PP? This is really far too low (also, there is too few loot, but that is yet another matter).

It really is not fun if you need some super-mobs to keep some head honchos at bay who obviously don't see the RP in there (one doesn't just raise an attribute "because one can", but only if it makes sense, and it does not make ANY sense why everybody should have the same top scores in the end), and give the impression of characters just being a sheet of stats.Actually, I found PS so far the best possibility to get close to a real RPG but Computer based, and now those factors that really annoy come in again...

Just 2 Tria here. Hope this gets to the right ears.

[Koios]

...
We have a problem, that is obviously not really solvable by now, unless you "cut" on some old characters...
...
You see in this thread already, that there are obviously plenty long-time players who earned their blue jumpsuit and red cape somewhere in the past.
well, IMHO, in a RPG setting, such "omnipotent" characters should simply not exist.
One problem seems to be that there is no limit to the stats - every Tom Dick and Harry can have 200... why is this so? This is ridiculous.

Some of us have been around for years. We have earned our skills by questing/mining/monster killing/attending GM events/attending player events etc. Practice makes you able to kill the Maulberlords Sometimes you might have grinded a bit, say to feel you can give a good beating at a Tournament. You need someone to participate in them for them to be held The mechanics can be a source of RP, not a hinder. You just need to apply them in the right way and not overdo it. I have never seen any "maxed out" character claim to be the king of Yliakum after winning a duel, but maybe I've just been lucky?

I would opt for some limit, partially race-based (like, a Kran can be strong, but nnot too bright, e.g.), or - which also makes sense - by background (like, your stats can rise maximally to 1.5 x original value, or maybe 2x original value, and then no more).
If you want a powerhouse with STR like a titan, fine, but accept you won't be top notch in other areas - imagine the NPC Malco. He is really STRONG... but ot-nay oo-tay ight-bray, to say the least.
Vice versa, take Levrus - a good alround wizard, but frail and would not want to fight physically, would he?
Well, there are chars out there that obviously outweigh all those extremes, and that is what makes the whole stat system somewhat ridiculous.

If you read the Race description on the PS main site, you will see that there will be race rules implemented quite similar to those you ask after here. But this is still being worked on, so be patient

Next part - PP and cost of training... how is one to get where one needs to get to fit a certain role with those few points? And on the other hand, where did those bluesuits (see above) get all those points? The relation is not okay. Especially when I find chars  that started after mine - and I play intensively - suddenly have such exceeding stat bars... how is that possible?

The newer chars that you meet must be playing even more intesively, or more "grinder's efficient" maybe. Not everyone is bent on RPing 24/7 IG, and that's fine imo as long as they don't disruptthe RP of others. We do have silent types in RL as well.
And we got our points just as you can get them now. In some places we didn't get as many as you can, in other places we could get a tad more. It balances out even as far as I can see. At least now you don't have to wait in line to kill certain monsters since there's plenty around

Stats are propably too bloody cheap, compared to skills - which actually make up a char - and for which I get far too few PP and money to train them.

It depends on the skill, but I can agree there that stats are cheaper. But having maxed stats doesn't make you as "powerful" in a duel as maxed Sword does

It really is not fun if you need some super-mobs to keep some head honchos at bay who obviously don't see the RP in there (one doesn't just raise an attribute "because one can", but only if it makes sense, and it does not make ANY sense why everybody should have the same top scores in the end).

The players with a bit of higher skills need their monsters as well. Otherwise there is no challenge other than other players and everyone would run around hack at each other.  
You can also group up with other people to try to handle them, it's quite fun and the RP tactics that needs to be discussed beforehand can be quite amusing. "Okey, so I go at it from the front here. You two over there and flank. We use these two as fodder if necessary and we'll all have a feast in DR afterwards if we fail."

Not everyone is a master RPer at first. And no one is a master swordsman. If people feel the need to have mechanics back them up before putting it into their RP, I think it's good. Since this is PC based, not everything has to be in writing. I have had quite a few RP fights with other players, and if you just agree on the rules, you can have a fantastic fight. But you can't kill a monster with words, that's for the gods to do

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Roled, you can't think the bugs are the end of mob art, we have a lot planned and you can read up on a lot of it.

We didn't put drifters in as passive animals because it would prompt cries of "why can't we capture and train one." One day that may well be possible, but distributing non-conflict npcs for atmosphere simply was not a priority at this time.

As for super characters, these folks have been with us for a long time in most cases. You have to trust that when we have achieved a relative sense of balance things will be better.

As for some of your rp friends being gone, that's just a perpetual fact of life.

[LigH]

that's just a perpetual fact of life.

Or like Shirley Bassey sang: This is all just a little bit of history repeating

Roled, even though some people have less time playing because jobs are more important now in these poor times, don't lose faith. Knowledge Seekers wouldn't exist anymore for years if we didn't fight for their existance each year again. Erelenga required 3 months to join!

[Bonifarzia]

Allright, I took my time to comment the latest re-re-factor, because I thought it would be reasonable to first hunt down each type of critter in close combat before judging their strength.

First of all, I highly appreciate the effort that has been made to rebalance things. It is good to see that there are suitable NPC types for a wide spread of character progression states and plenty of individual mobs to find for each of those types. Also, I am happy with the new values of physical damage absorption, which are a good step in the right direction. Still, I conclude it is much simpler to hunt down mobs using offensive magic rather than close combat. The main reason for this is very large delay (lag) in combat events between player and NPC client, which makes it very hard to time your attacks, especially as the creeps movement speeds greatly vary. For some of the strongest mobs out there, this is even worse, because they are able to take down a player with a single attack (double hit) , even if one sticks to a defensive stance and fully trained heavy armor in perfect condition. These apparently random and sometimes lethal hits taken make it very uninteresting to hunt those creatures, and cooperative hunting does not change much here, unless it is a weaker foe that can be taken down immediately by the group. I hope the way mobs are adjusted is to take into account future defense values, that will be available through crafted armor (and possibly higher trainable ranks). And of course, I am looking forward to hunting those critters with less latency again, as player vs player combat lag looks significantly better. A mechanism to make some mobs harder to kill with magic is still necessary.

One note about the change in progression points earned for defeating the stronger mobs... I think it was fairly obvious that the experience reward for hunting was totally off from what you could get with crafting or doing quests. The new values may feel ridiculously low, but are in much better agreement with the reward for other actions and with the value of the loot you get. Even the mobs strength suits in much better now, at least if you consider some nonlinear dependence for the PP awarded. Of course, many aspects of the game mechanics have not changed yet, so it is not surprising that for instance the PP requirements for training a magic way to its maximum rank corresponds to a mind bogglingly large number of mobs to hunt. Have patience. Maybe in the future  a student of the arcane arts will not only gain practice but also experience for successfully casting the more complicated and challenging spells, just as the crafters do with their work.

[Bajazag]

What are your stats?
Str 200
Agil 190
End 170
Will 170
Int 158
Cha 160

What are your relevant skills?
-armor
25 heavy
-weapon
40 sword
-weapon quality
2 shortswords 134/134 - 2 claymores 147/147 (no difference)
-Armor Quality
50/50

Were you using buffing items?
nope

What is the mobs name?
tefusang

Where is the mob?
tried in various places, arena, bd1, oja2 with the same results.

How does combat with this mob go?
pretty well for them, bad for me.
-logs from system
no need for logs, can't even scratch them, and they take away 1/3 of my health with a hit.

What combat stance did you use?
normal and bloody

Does changing stance alter the outcome? How so?
nope

How is the loot?
well protected, I'd say.
-seems fair y/n
nope

Do you have additional comments?
No, but I'd like to point out few facts: 1) I've been playing ps for a little more than a year. 2) Most quests require tefu parts, not only those for winch access and for mounts but also the quests related to crafting (Trasok) and even the cooking quests with Reffitia. 3) My character always avoided magic because it scares him (except the healing spells, yes he's an opportunist sometimes); now if I want to keep playing I have to change it. I've started leveling magic OOC. And yes, bare RP is an option, not a fun one, imo (hm, this is a comment, so yes, I do have a comment).

[Earowo]

the ulbers are invading the wilderness!!!
the ulbers are coming the ulbers are coming!!

[Bonifarzia]

Summary: Defeating most of the very large mobs without using offensive magic is very challenging and the rewards in terms of loot are way to poor. The value of loot does not reflect the mobs strength at all in many cases, not only for those animal parts that have been available in 0.4.3.

Here is an example.

Mobs name and location: Maulbernauts at Oja road 1, bronze door fields etc.

Loot: Rather poor chances to loot, the value of all animal parts is the same as for toxic grendol and fayed velnishi, which are orders of magnitude weaker.

Relevant player stats and buffs: str 200+40, agi 200+3, end 200+3, invigoration

Relevant skills and equipment: q280 RBA at rank 150, full set of q45 platemail including a battle helm at rank 100

Stance: In this case, normal stance is the needed stance to be able to inflict damage, the initial strike is in bloody stance.

How does combat go: Depending on the initial amount of damage dealt, which has in general a ridiculously wide spread, it takes about 20 to 40 well timed attacks to defeat the mob, inflicting about 20 to 100 HP damage per hit at an average of about half a hit per double attack. In return, the mob is able to deal about 200 to 450 damage per hit, leaving a nonzero chance to defeat the player with a single double hit in this stance even though buffed for extra health.

Comment: Even for the strongest of all mobs, a fully trained and well equipped player character should be able to choose a stance that allows to damage the mob without running the risk to die from  one double hit. Give players the chance to heal themselves or each other, and hunting in groups using combat will be an option again. In contrast, critical damage taken from gladiator type NPCs is fine, because the player has reasonable chances to defeat the NPC before taking any damage.