thanks for removing PvP

[_sly_]

I had an interesting encounter.
It was a fight of a Mage against a weapon user. The Mage used some spells to boost his stats and defense and casted his offensive spells. It was over pretty soon. I was the weapon user and i attacked bloody with the best swords available in the game. With physical stats and sword skill maxed i could not deliver a single hit. The Mage did not lose a single health point. Zero.Nada. I have to assume that this is how its supposed to be and that weapon users are worth a shit, expected to just leave the game.
If you have two Mages in a PvP situation it does not get better. It might result in a huge lag fest and maybe both guys cast spells for an hour or maybe for eternity.
Why dont you just remove those evil game mechanics completely?
Then you will have a nice 3d chat box.
As a software-Tester of this open Alpha Game i ask myself why i should waste my time playing a game like this.

[Aramara Meibi]

one of my characters is 100% magic free, and yet has an ever increasing body count. How? Because of a preference of roleplaying combat rather than using mechanics. The magic mechanics are especially bad, for one, a spell never misses. never.

just try and RPing your combat. Not only does it balance the tables, but it is far more enjoyable than just clicking a button.

there's no suspense, no way for you to outthink your opponent, no way to duck and dodge, to parry and counter, no way to use objects in your environment as impromptu weapons, no way to do any of the things that makes combat exciting by using mechanics.

[Timil Deeps]

I have to agree with Sly on the PVP mechanics problem, but as an RPer, I agree with Aramara, in that I've really enjoyed RPing my fights more anyway. And if randomness is needed, there's always the /roll command, as long as both players agree how the dice will be used to determine the success of attacks. That said, I've only used dice once or twice, most notibly at the suggestion of someone who wanted to try to pickpocket me. That was a fun RP! 

So yeah, I guess a 3d chatbox ain't so bad. 

[Aramara Meibi]

not at all. the 3d aspect is great in that it truly helps to visualize the situation, the surroundings, environment etc. as well as gives the players a reference in spatial position and distances between characters.

for instance, in the final Butcher RP, which took place in IRC, it was hard to tell who was where in location relative to each other. I mean, I had a picture in my head, but there was no way to be sure that that mental image was anything like any of the other players' mental images.

[Timil Deeps]

Right, Aramara! If PS were a book, the 3d would be the beautiful Illustrations. Heck, one could even liken it to a graphic novel, for the reasons you listed.

[tman]

I don't think the merits of RP combat are in question.  The point is that the mechanics are hugely imbalanced and need to be changed.

[Phantomboy86]

The magic mechanics are especially bad, for one, a spell never misses. never.

Actually you can get a 'half-hit' type of thing, or with some of the more finicky spells it'l just fizzle altogether and say the spell failed.

still agree though.

[Rigwyn]

. I have to assume that this is how its supposed to be and that weapon users are worth a shit, expected to just leave the game

Oh, boo hoo!   

It takes time for stuff to get balanced. Prior to this re-balancing, we went for years with a horribly unbalanced system that favored weapon users.  You could one-shot ulbers with about 40 sword and a pair of q300's. With about 60 DW and a crappy pair of +1 dw rings ( the only dw buff available at the time aside from some uber-rare itesm ), you still couldn't one-shot ulbers... hell, you needed a sack full of EXPENSIVE mana potions to take them down.  You could not train magic without first training a weapon skill as that was the only effective way to gain the tria, mana potions, and pp needed to train magic. Likewise, magic users had no defense, so they had to train HA.

[novacadian]

. I have to assume that this is how its supposed to be and that weapon users are worth a shit, expected to just leave the game

Oh, boo hoo!   

It takes time for stuff to get balanced. Prior to this re-balancing, we went for years with a horribly unbalanced system that favored weapon users.  You could one-shot ulbers with about 40 sword and a pair of q300's. With about 60 DW and a crappy pair of +1 dw rings ( the only dw buff available at the time aside from some uber-rare itesm ), you still couldn't one-shot ulbers... hell, you needed a sack full of EXPENSIVE mana potions to take them down.  You could not train magic without first training a weapon skill as that was the only effective way to gain the tria, mana potions, and pp needed to train magic. Likewise, magic users had no defense, so they had to train HA.

That seems a bit lame Rigwyn. You are basically saying because there has never been balance in PS's PvP system that one should just suck it up?

My experience is that the OP is totally justified in his/her/kra's observations.

Maybe it would be best to remove the PvP system all together rather than giving the false belief that such a work-able system exists in the game.

It would go a long way to put some believability that this is, in fact, an RP based game, as well.

Rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water perhaps allowing a one swing option with the present combat functions so that the game mechanics could be used in a turn based aspect. That would go a long way to balancing things out. Then, regardless if you are lagged out from the mage, you would have the opportunity to take your swing when it became your action turn in the RP/Mechanic combat.

- Nova

[Rigwyn]

That seems a bit lame Rigwyn. You are basically saying because there has never been balance in PS's PvP system that one should just suck it up?

No grasshopper, I'm saying that one needs to be patient. Things change over time. At times certain things will be unbalanced, broken, disabled, or working waaaay better than intended. Suck it up and wait it out. The game is still in development - that means that its being worked on, tweaked and changed. With such changes there will be instability.

Derp...

[novacadian]

One can only hope that you are playing Devil's Advocate, Rigwyn.

Your comments only rub salt in the wound of a rightfully disgruntled player. And so we chug on sticking our heads in the sand of under development.

- Nova

[Gilrond]

Magic/combat are still pretty unbalanced / not properly implemented in the game. Supposedly there is a big redesign in magic system coming up. Not sure about what is planned exactly though. You can ask your questions on the dev meeting about it.

On a side note, imagine some powerful magic, like a wall of molten lava  - normal weapons would be rather powerless against it. So yes, mages have an advantage in a sense, especially with ranged spells. However mechanics of how it all works together need to be changed.

[Bonifarzia]

I agree with Gilrond and in most points also with Rigwyn (I would argue magic used to be overpowered in the old times, too, when you could throw six stones per second ).

I guess the current problem of physical immunity is not really an issue of magic rules, even though a mage benefits even more from that than a warrior. We have seen this issue partly when all attacks were scaled to inflict less damage, which eliminated many one shot kills in both pvp and pvm. Now we have some high quality armor for even more protection, and a few buffs (loot/spell) that seem to be additive. My hope is that there are big changes to come with the combat enhancements, that the system of armor based defense loses some of its additive nature and that critical hits will be introduced that break through an armors weak spot. Balancing of magic against combat is another big problem that can be addressed once both fields work (e.g. no more infinite mana and mental stamina).

So what can we do as players if we want to have fun with some PvP then?
Hope that your "enemy" plays fair. Maybe arrange some fights with lowest quality armor. If it is open PvP without restrictions, grab your 30'000 food items and spam those spells while having a relaxing sleep, but don't expect much fun.

[RlyDontKnow]

I guess the current problem of physical immunity is not really an issue of magic rules, even though a mage benefits even more from that than a warrior. We have seen this issue partly when all attacks were scaled to inflict less damage, which eliminated many one shot kills in both pvp and pvm. Now we have some high quality armor for even more protection, and a few buffs (loot/spell) that seem to be additive. My hope is that there are big changes to come with the combat enhancements, that the system of armor based defense loses some of its additive nature and that critical hits will be introduced that break through an armors weak spot. Balancing of magic against combat is another big problem that can be addressed once both fields work (e.g. no more infinite mana and mental stamina).

to name the issue more on a "cause" level: PlaneShift lacks rules developers - as already raised many times in the wish list and complaint department boards here. yes, most mechanics aren't very balanced, but there's a fix for it: go and try to make people who may be suited step up and have them apply to the team.

without someone dedicated working on rules, there sure won't be a perfectly balanced system anytime soon.

and on another note: yes, it's an *alpha*.
that means features get added/changed regularily requiring balancing adjustments and even a simple bug fix can cause balancing changes (see AoE spells  )
just think how it'd affect the mage<->warrior balancing when warriors actually get skills to use besides their simple standard attack

[Aramara Meibi]

perhaps allowing a one swing option with the present combat functions so that the game mechanics could be used in a turn based aspect. That would go a long way to balancing things out. Then, regardless if you are lagged out from the mage, you would have the opportunity to take your swing when it became your action turn in the RP/Mechanic combat.

I am increasingly in favor of this type of system, turning the combat system into one turn-based, where you would have to describe your action before you performed it. It would best reflect the role-play aspect of the game which we all hold dear.

This whole idea of timed hits... that I swing my sword every 1.75 seconds (or whatever it is) is just beyond belief. If you want a real-time combat system that reflects all the capabilities that come with RPd combat, you'll basically have to scrap all that we have and invent SoulCalibur.