PlaneShift
Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Illysia on May 12, 2018, 08:34:59 pm
-
So I found myself back here looking for forgotten information and decided to stop and say Hi...
Hi.
So who around even knows who I am now? I figure you're still around Gag. :)
-
(http://origin.webcdn.theblackdesertonline.net/forum/service_live/monthly_07_2016/you_again.thumb.png.d33080109a9522f572bc9917e01e9736.png)
ohaidar
-
Hiya! o/
-
That's right! Illy's back. :p Only for the moment though. ;D
Hiya Zwei. o/
-
Hey! \\o//
-
Hey Karzela. :)
-
So what have you been up to?
-
Wow, Rigwyn is alive. Planning to come back to Yliakum?
-
One day, maybe. Right now, I have other interests to persue.
-
So what have you been up to?
Practicing writing, playing other games, occasionally RPing, real life. Not many things but busy just the same. You?
-
Reading about Hermeticism, Qabalah, Tree of Life, Chaos Magick.
>.>
Interesting stuffs ( and very different from my usual way of thinking )
Working, eating, sleeping... not necessarily in that order.
-
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0HlJcWbeo9AgcbPq/giphy.gif)
-
Reading about Hermeticism, Qabalah, Tree of Life, Chaos Magick.
Chaos magick?
I kind of wish you were my dad, Rigwyn.
-
We need more people in PS that are actually into grim occult stuff, it would make the suspension of disbelief in Dakkru/BF advanced RP more plausible for a mature audience.
-
I don't know if i should be talking here. Hi Illy. Come on, join the Discord.
-
o/
-
We need more people in PS that are actually into grim occult stuff, it would make the suspension of disbelief in Dakkru/BF advanced RP more plausible for a mature audience.
I've always been interested in an adult (non-sexual) rating and crowd for the game. I wouldn't want to see this turned into another smut shop, but the pg/g rating that the game is supposed to have is way too limiting.
Reading about Hermeticism, Qabalah, Tree of Life, Chaos Magick.
Chaos magick?
I kind of wish you were my dad, Rigwyn.
It's good stuff, Volki. The chaos magick facebook crowd is full of idiots with a sprinkling of intelligent and insightful folks, but the book suggestions that you see and the downloadable files are the way to go if you want to learn about it.
-
o/
-
/me waves at Indygo
Hiya Indy. Good to hear from you again.
-
Oh hey.. an Indy. o/
-
I really should try to revive my old forum account (Liadan) ... but maybe not. I read some of my old posts and definitely more than a few are cringe worthy. Nonetheless -
o/ Illysia!
-
It's good stuff, Volki. The chaos magick facebook crowd is full of idiots with a sprinkling of intelligent and insightful folks, but the book suggestions that you see and the downloadable files are the way to go if you want to learn about it.
I disagree, it's not healthy to believe in unobservable/unverifiable phenomena and such practices can lead to mental illness.
-
That's what I originally thought, Zerxzz. I understand and respect your point of view, but I have found that there is more to reality than the objective perspective. The subjective world is the other side of the coin, and a side that is often dismissed. The subjective world is larger than you may think and is home to art, music, philosophy religion, magick and more.
One of the ideas central to chaos magick is that belief can be used as a tool. The chaote adopts and dismisses beliefs as needed. And no, this does not cause mental inconsistency as I had origionally feared. You know what you know, and one only needs to adopt a belief temporarily.
-
The SUBJECTIVE world is larger than you may think and is home to PHILOSOPHY
No further comments needed i guess ;D
-
Oh, come on. Join the conversation and share some ideas. How is philosophy not subjective? Are we capable of being truly objective or is our objectivity flawed or an imitation aided by the use of tools? Where exactly do we draw the line between the physical world and the mental world? What is reality? What is creativity? Do straight lines exist?
-
Dilihin's comment is the most telling one, I think.
The word Philosophy once meant ‘friend to wisdom’.
Nowadays, philosophers are regarded with disdain by some. Begs the question: whom was it who first lost sight of Sophia, the philosophers or everyone else? Whom first disconnected wisdom from its intimate connection to everything, the esoteric and the exoteric, whether so–called pragmaticism or art and music which give us purpose to be sapient creatures.
We don't need more plumbers than philosophers. We need more plumbers who are also philosophers, if anything.
-
That's what I originally thought, Zerxzz. I understand and respect your point of view, but I have found that there is more to reality than the objective perspective. The subjective world is the other side of the coin, and a side that is often dismissed. The subjective world is larger than you may think and is home to art, music, philosophy religion, magick and more.
One of the ideas central to chaos magick is that belief can be used as a tool. The chaote adopts and dismisses beliefs as needed. And no, this does not cause mental inconsistency as I had origionally feared. You know what you know, and one only needs to adopt a belief temporarily.
1. No one has demonstrated evidence of paranormal ability in any credible study
2. Those who perpetuate "magical" or new age beliefs have nothing to show for it themselves
These should be reasons enough to stay away from that hogwash.
Some people can easily trick themselves into believing things that are not real, or experience such things as a result of mental instability. That's why subjective experience of a given individual is not reliable for truth. To see just how destructive similar practices can be, I recommend taking a look here: https://forum.culteducation.com/list.php?6
-
1. absolutely correct
2. it depends on what "it" is.
Now, how about a definition of what "real" is? What makes something real?
Are thoughts, perceptions, emotions, your "self" real? Or are you nothing but your physical body?
Of what value is inductive reasoning?
Where would be be today in terms of scientific achievement without imagination ( which is not real?).
Im not asking these questions just to be a boogersnot, but rather, Im trying to engage with you in thoughtful discussion.
Did Einstien, Newton, and Hawkings cave into consensus reality and limit themselves to what everyone agrees is truth, or did they dare to get messy and experiment with reality? Surely they dared to experiment with seemingly foolish ideas.
As for the cult stuff, I've done quite a lot of reading on the topic and find it quite fascinating. Rick Ross had a very informative site for a long time. Not sure if its still around or not.
-
1. No one has demonstrated evidence of paranormal ability in any credible study
There was a long time during which nobody had publically available any “credible study” of neutrino detection.
Did they not exist until then? Do they only exist when observed? What is an observation, anyway?
Hmm, we don't know, do we?
Are you arguing for ignosticism, agnosticism, or what?
Are you telling us why something is not “real”, or why you don't consider any of it when you make decisions using your problem–solving, purportedly soulless, brain?
Seriously… what do they teach in schools today?
-
1. absolutely correct
2. it depends on what "it" is.
Now, how about a definition of what "real" is? What makes something real?
Are thoughts, perceptions, emotions, your "self" real? Or are you nothing but your physical body?
Of what value is inductive reasoning?
Where would be be today in terms of scientific achievement without imagination ( which is not real?).
Im not asking these questions just to be a boogersnot, but rather, Im trying to engage with you in thoughtful discussion.
Did Einstien, Newton, and Hawkings cave into consensus reality and limit themselves to what everyone agrees is truth, or did they dare to get messy and experiment with reality? Surely they dared to experiment with seemingly foolish ideas.
As for the cult stuff, I've done quite a lot of reading on the topic and find it quite fascinating. Rick Ross had a very informative site for a long time. Not sure if its still around or not.
Our conventional reality is based on a set of axioms. We have axioms to support the existence of ourselves, what gives us pain or pleasure, what limits our abilities in some ways, why we are staring at our computer screens, etc. This is what I define as "real" or “rational”. Einstein, Newton, and Hawkings worked within the set of axioms in conventional reality to achieve great feats. It is possible that the reality which I describe is a delusion of some kind, or that there is some greater truth for which we are unaware of, but I contend that we currently have no practical axioms to support these possibilities.
Rick Ross is still around, the site that I linked belongs to him.
Are you arguing for ignosticism, agnosticism, or what?
Are you telling us why something is not “real”, or why you don't consider any of it when you make decisions using your problem–solving, purportedly soulless, brain?
My point is that it would be unwise to seek out paranormal abilities with the methods that Rigwyn was promoting, that his methods have no scientific or proven basis and may result in delusion as it is normally understood.
Seriously… what do they teach in schools today?
Maybe you should find out?
-
Let me lay out a perspective, casting runes, tarot, etc.. can give a subjective insight into oneself.
It is (near)impossible to predict yourself accurately by setting up a set of rules describing how you would act in a given situation.
The reverse is also true, you can't afterwards conclude accurately of everything why you did it.
We feel things that aren't always purely rational or seem to have a deeper cause than what is apparent.
If you take those three points to be true then you can conclude that feeling something might in fact be a better way to find out why you feel what you feel. So in order to do so you would need a tool or method to guide you as otherwise you're not accomplishing anything. I would then argue that the mystical can because of its nature bridge the gap between feeling and understanding quite effectively at times.
It certainly isn't ironclad but I just want to offer an perspective, or well how one could perceive the mystical to be useful and why one might practice it.
To see just how destructive similar practices can be
That's quite a dangerous way of thinking in and of itself, most things(if not all) taken to its extreme can be destructive.
-
"Our conventional reality is based on a set of axioms."
ax·i·om
/ˈaksēəm/Submit
noun
a statement or proposition that is regarded as being established, accepted, or self-evidently true.
So then it is real if others agree or if we perceive it to be true as with Flat Earth before we learned that the earth was spherical... correction, an "oblique spheroid". That consensus was once wrong and that which was evident, was not so accurate.
I know what you are saying intuitively, but this is a sticky part when defining "real" or "reality". It depends to "some extent" on judgement, assumptions, and the interpretation and application of measurements. Once again, the subjective slips in.
"My point is that it would be unwise to seek out paranormal abilities with the methods that Rigwyn was promoting, that his methods have no scientific or proven basis and may result in delusion as it is normally understood."
de·lu·sion
/dəˈlo͞oZHən/Submit
noun
an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.
Like believing in a spherical world when the rest of the world believes the world is flat.. just like the map. I think the "firmly maintained" clause is what is important here. We have to admit that as much as we may like our theories (scientific, magickal, artistic or whatever), we need to know that we could be quite wrong and we need to be ok with that.
Let me clarify something, tools such as magick in it's various forms have benefits that do not necessarily have anything to do with the "paranormal". Some folks explain magick in psychological terms ie. programming/priming your unconscious mind, some explain it as a kind of "energy" or as some sort of "divine" action or jokingly "spooky action at a distance". Regardless of the paradigm used to explain it, if it brings one results, then it does not really matter much "how" it works, but "if" it works "for the individual" -- this is a subjective art, not objective science. An example would be if three people were to theorize about why the placebo effect works. We know it exists and we work to minimize or maximize it without having a suitable explanation for why or how it sometimes works.
"Let me lay out a perspective, casting runes, tarot, etc.. can give a subjective insight into oneself."
-- Just like the Rorschach test. People project onto the ink blots what is inside them. Afterwards, the testee's comments are analyzed. Some folks use Tarot cards, Runes, and other forms of divination in a similar way. Some claim the instrument reveals what is inside, some claim the instrument works via some other paradigm. In the end, if it works for the individual, then it's useful.
Lastly, I agree that tinkering with beliefs can be hazardous in some cases, but not in all cases. We change our beliefs on a regular basis without realizing it. Growing up, our care takers and authority figures play a large role in the formation of our beliefs and values. We can choose to let others ie. "society", "science", or whomever we put in charge, dictate or gatekeep our beliefs, or we can choose to take the reigns and do this in a more deliberate fashion.
-
So who around even knows who I am now? I figure you're still around Gag. :)
Hi Illysia! How could one forget one of the best barmaids from the Stonehead?!? Hope you are well.
- Nova
-
Work's crazy so I usually don't get the time to browse around here as much as I used to. However...
I don't know if i should be talking here. Hi Illy. Come on, join the Discord.
Hiya Mishka, I'm sorry but I don't think I saw this post until today. :oops: I don't use discord but if anyone wants to poke me you can write me here. My PMs send a notification to my email that I check regularly.
Hi Illysia! How could one forget one of the best barmaids from the Stonehead?!? Hope you are well.
- Nova
Hiya Nova. :)