Author Topic: Rigwyn for GM  (Read 2252 times)

Roled

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2015, 03:11:55 pm »
Truthfully, and for a good reason, the best RPers and writers do not become GMs.

Why? Because they might not possess the OTHER talents necessary to be a GM, and as mentioned earlier and is key: Generally take stances that conflict with the current GM team! There have been some pretty epic failures when we've tried that in the past - power abuse, clique appeasement, etc., or just flameouts where opinions clash, and whoops, it's a no go.

But would Rigwyn make a great GM? Probably. It's very nice that one of our other players nominated him and is a fun recognition. Bravo!

 :thumbup: Cairn

Which raises the REAL question- why aren't the GMs nominated and elected by the players?  ::|

RR
"RR is a PieSexual" ~ Monala

Volki

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 877
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2015, 03:28:11 pm »
why aren't the GMs nominated and elected by the players?

That would be a popularity contest. Easy guess why that's a terrible idea.
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Eonwind

  • Developers
  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 815
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2015, 11:39:24 am »
Which raises the REAL question- why aren't the GMs nominated and elected by the players?  ::|

Simply because PS is not a democracy, the team members and devs are not elected. I want to point out this is a pretty normal situation in most projects including most of the open source community. In a community shared project it's pretty normal the decision are being taken by who actually work on the project, especially for volunteer based projects, the reason being it's pretty useless and will only make the project fail trying to push a task on someone not interested in its development. Of course feedbacks, suggestions and even complains are highly appreciated (if expressed in a polite way).

Candy

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 962
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2015, 01:01:56 pm »
why aren't the GMs nominated and elected by the players?

That would be a popularity contest. Easy guess why that's a terrible idea.

This. Besides, GMs don't get to roleplay as much - I'd miss Rigwyn's plots. Not to mention people could socially engineer their way to GM and then grief people with those powers, and/or show favoritism for those who voted for them.
Role Play Preferences
Quote
[1: gossip] Glaciusor: There's now a guy in skimpy armor having war flashbacks about daemons. Have fun Hydlaa

Eonwind

  • Developers
  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 815
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2015, 04:48:45 pm »
Besides, GMs don't get to roleplay as much
Besides GMs RP all the time (events, Guards patrol, ...)

Not to mention people could socially engineer their way to GM and then grief people with those powers, and/or show favoritism for those who voted for them.
it's true ;)

Rigwyn

  • Prospects
  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2033
  • ...
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2015, 06:30:21 pm »
Thanks to all of you for the kind words and comments. Playing with you folks is always a blast. I have a few thoughts on this I figured I would share:

Quote
Not to mention people could socially engineer their way to GM and then grief people with those powers, and/or show favoritism for those who voted for them.

While this is true, there is really no way of stopping someone from doing this now. Anyone with a little patience could pull this off.

Which raises the REAL question- why aren't the GMs nominated and elected by the players?  ::|
RR


Forget about this whole gm thing, it's just a title that comes with an assortments of lead weights to hold you down. The ability to spawn props and rename items is seriously over rated and adds nothing to role play.  It's like a little smattering of fattening, sugary frosting on the cake.

Players who consistently succeed in entertaining us with their events, stories, or characterizations, personalities or social RP become know for just that. When one has a track record for being pleasant or enjoyable to play with, people gravitate towards them. This is really all we need. For those who absolutely must have renamed items and staged areas, there are plenty of gm events and they are typically centered on such things. If you are ready to give up the frosting and try the cake, seek out players who role play.

Roled

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2015, 09:51:08 pm »
AHEM!! Rigwyn, all due respect, but...

"seek out the cake."?????

Surely you mean, seek out the PIE!  ::| ::|

R ") R

"RR is a PieSexual" ~ Monala

Rigwyn

  • Prospects
  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2033
  • ...
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2015, 09:57:35 pm »

Folks who opt for Roled's pie over the cake should line up outside Kada El's. :)


Cairn

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 555
  • Older than a few mountains.
    • View Profile
    • Creative Minds Forum
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2015, 10:54:59 am »
Quote
Not to mention people could socially engineer their way to GM and then grief people with those powers, and/or show favoritism for those who voted for them.
While this is true, there is really no way of stopping someone from doing this now. Anyone with a little patience could pull this off.



Lol.

 :-X

I regret to announce that this is the end.

I bid you all a very fond farewell

Mordaan

  • Developers
  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 839
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2015, 02:56:55 pm »
why aren't the GMs nominated and elected by the players?

That would be a popularity contest. Easy guess why that's a terrible idea.

I didn't read the whole thread but just to the general point of nominating someone for GM, players can always do that.  Either by suggesting it to that person or by mentioning it to other GMs so they can reach out.  But ultimately it's up to the person to seek out the position.

You can say "hey, you'd make a great GM" but they still have to apply, themselves.  And be accepted.
--Overseer, Explorers Guild.

Pierre

  • Guest
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #25 on: June 13, 2015, 03:31:13 am »
Players who consistently succeed in entertaining us with their events, stories, or characterizations, personalities or social RP become know for just that. When one has a track record for being pleasant or enjoyable to play with, people gravitate towards them.

I love this, it's so true.

But I also loved the gambling den event.  I loved the gambling den itself.  So I like a mix.  Anyway, so it's good to know that we can be nominated by other players (or be very patient as we pull off our social engineering, this made me lol too, for reasons  :devil:).

Roled

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 818
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2015, 06:55:42 pm »
Social engineering- well, the GM system already  is social engineered right now, it's just hidden under the guise of self appointed authority.  For a moment consider, seriously, why aren't GMs nominated and then VOTED on by the playing population? So what if such GMs might be elected because of their 'popularity'- players are 'popular' for reasons, aren't they?  They are interesting to play with, they are creative, they are intelligent, they are collaborative, they are patient, they don't call you names or say that your thoughts are 'nonsense'... Other players are not 'popular,' perhaps, for other reasons. Is this really a valid reason to NOT have a vote of the people for those who might help them navigate the game?

As was pointed out, the socially engineered system right now leaves the decision to the unnamed and self appointed. People must be "Accepted" and "acceptable." But what are the qualifications? Where are the qualifications in writing so that potential players who might be interested might see what the requirements are? Who is on the list of those who get to find some players acceptable and some unacceptable? What are the criteria? How are nominees scored?   Eonwind for example, said of Rigwyn, that Rig wouldn't be "accepted,"  yet we players don't know why, really, do we?   Is it because Eonwind doesn't like Rigwyn's already significant power in our game? Or Rigwyn's obvious intelligence? Or Rig's technical skills? Or his imagination?  Or his logic? Or his massive sense of humor? Or how much fun he is to role play with?

What makes Rigwyn 'unacceptable' and Eonwind 'acceptable'?  This is a serious question.

Eonwind claims that PlaneShift isn't a democracy yet offers no reason why it is not a democracy ["like most other projects..." is not a reason, really, is it? ] The PS organizing documents are not public on the wiki, or in the website, or anywhere I can find, I would like to read the documents that show how PS is organized. And I would like to know what laws apply to the kind of organization that PS is, and under what country those regulations govern. Is it Italy?

These are real questions. Thoughtful and considered responses are welcome.

and just so no one feels compelled to [call me names and ] snark  that all I do is complain, herewith for those who like to read satire , is one set of suggestions I have taken the time to pen, humbly titled:

~~~~~~~

*** A Modest Proposal***

Herewith Be-eth A Modest Proposal for Preventing Players From Being a Burthen to Their Gods, and for Making The GameWorld's Rules Beneficial to All and Sundry of the Publick therein.

Be it resolved:
     1) The management structure of PlaneShift shall consist of between 5 and 12 volunteer members of a Board of Directors elected for two year terms of office, elected by the player base in a majority vote based on player identity not on number of alts a player may have.  One player one vote.

           A. Elected Board representatives shall be nominated by the player base. 

           B. Board members must represent different geographical hubs of players and must include a diversity of nationalities and hemispheres.

           C. The Slate of nominees for Elected Board of Director positions must be nominated by at least three other players. 

           D.  Current Board members cannot nominate new Board members.

           E. Nominees for Board of Directors positions are encouraged to post their qualifications on a dedicated Forum thread. Statements of their philosophy of open source gaming, community, and statements concerning personal skills and volunteer managerial experiences they may offer the game are encouraged.

2) All Board of Directors members understand they are volunteers- there can be no compensation of any kind for time or volunteer activities performed on behalf of PlaneShift.

       A. Only players who have played their avatars in game for a minimum of 40 hours in a quarter for two consecutive quarters may vote in elections of the next quarter.

       B. The elected Board members shall be charged with creating draft policy statements and procedure manuals, which will be reviewed and ratified by the voting members of the PS community.  One player one vote.  :thumbup:

        C. Elected Board members shall solicit suggestions for policy statements and procedure manuals from the player base.

        D. Any player has the right to petition for a review of specific game structure, content or asset allocation, or submit a request for a policy or procedural review. These requests must be considered by a subcommittee of the elected Board quarterly, and any changes or refusals to change policy must be put forward to the full membership for an acceptance vote before being implemented or denied.

       E. No mechanics or setting changes may be implemented without a review of the proposed change's alignment with the mission, policies, settings and requests for improvements submitted by players.  [In other words, developers don't decide to work on leveling and balancing stats when little time is spent on rp concerns like completed race skins, clothing options or animation abilities to sit, write, dance etc.]

       F. Annually, the elected Board shall present to the player community suggestions for the allocation of game assets based on a vote of the player base. The player community shall vote for the suggestions they wish to prioritize.

3.  All elected Board member's effectiveness shall be reviewed annually by the playing membership.  Areas that need improvement will be noted in the minutes of the Board meetings.

        A. Board members may serve only two consecutive terms.

        B. All Board meetings shall be online, and open to the the public to attend.  Minutes of Board meetings will be posted to a specific forum thread within 24 hours of the meeting's occurrence.

        C.  In order to balance the time assets donated by volunteers of the PS community game, an equal amount of hours of volunteer developers time shall be spent on items suggested by the role playing community players to enhance role play, and items suggested by the engineering community to enhance leveling, crafting and killing. 

         D. All mechanics changes will be reviewed by the role playing community before being developed to prevent an overload of technical enhancements to the detriment of activities role players have requested. 

         E. Role playing enhancements shall be prioritized over technical enhancements.

4) In keeping with the commitment to creating an inclusive open source community developed game, the GM s shall be renamed Game Assistants, and shall be elected annually by the player community. GA s shall be charged with helping new players navigate the mechanics only.  Any GA may be removed from office by a majority vote of qualifying game players.

5) An elected body called the Game Tutors will be elected annually by the player community, GT s shall be charged with helping new players learn the lore and the stories, accompanying players on quests if needed, role modeling various forms of role playing techniques, and providing player organized events with certain arts or impersonation assets as requested by players.

       A. Any player may organize a player organized event, even if they aren't a GT.

       B. Special game assets will be available to player organizers to be distributed to participating role players as prizes for role play events.

        C. A body of players shall be elected annually to hear policy grievances.  Policy Grievance airings are open to the public and will be held online.

        D. In the event that a grievance includes accusations of actual breaking of national or international laws, the Board of Directors under the guidance of a neutral third party will convene an appropriate airing in an appropriate setting as advised by international attorneys and civil rights experts.

6. The Board of Directors shall be charged with drafting policies and procedures to address grievances. These policies shall be affirmed by the player base in a vote similar to the election of Board members: one player one vote.

       A. Any member of the past Board of FIFA are excluded from membership in the PlaneShift board for life.

       B. All members of the Board of Directors shall during their term in office create a new avatar and play the game without any special powers, stats, skills or access to assets. They will be expected to role play their characters as if they were newbies in order to maintain a more direct understanding of the experience of new players. A minimum of 40 role playing hours per quarter is expected of all Board members.  Leveling and grinding will not count as qualifying playing hours unless an in character role play accompanies the grinding.

7) Any elected, volunteer Board of Directors and Game Assistants shall agree that they serve at the pleasure of and for the benefit of the PlaneShift player community.  In order to fulfill this duty to the players, they agree to act to the best of their abilities with equity, inclusiveness, honor, non-violence and respect toward all members of the role playing community of PlaneShift.  :devil:
OR

Perhaps, simply a short mission statement could be created that is voted on by the playing community.  :innocent:  Something like

“PlaneShift is an open source, volunteer created, transparent and democratically organized role playing online community and gameworld. Our values, present in the game and in our policies, procedures and treatment of each other, include a belief in imaginative freedom, collaboratively created storytelling, pluralistic and inclusive game rules and in-game society, and game mechanics that support an egalitarian, partnership-based, non-violent, non-hierarchical , non-racist, non-sexist, non-homophobic and respectful environment in which to explore the ever expanding community-created story of the Dome.”

OR we could just toast up all the enki cubs into Swift pies ....

Modestly yours,
RR's player
"RR is a PieSexual" ~ Monala

Geoni

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1182
  • -
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2015, 07:22:04 pm »
Roled that's a heck of a lot of bureaucracy for a team that's already got a lot on it's plate. I don't know much about the prospect system but it sounds to me, just by name, to be what it is. He's a prospect. And his own work will speak for itself honestly.

Doesn't seem like a guise to me, it's how a lot of teams work on a lot of sites/whatever when it comes to game masters. It's better to be utilitarian than democratic. And usually know what qualities they're looking for in a player/potential-prospect-to-be. And so long as people responsible for promoting players are looking beyond the pool of their own friends for new staff then the staff itself can remain unbiased.


-sig by sarras

Volki

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 877
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2015, 07:28:42 pm »
Private entities are not democracies. This is not a government. It's a game run by hobbyists. You can show your dissatisfaction through forum posts, bad reviews, and complaints about the developers on other websites. You could also leave the game entirely and take your playtime to another but similar game. Or you could do one better and start your own project with your own ideals.

Because PS doesn't depend on your donations or transactions, it is not obligated to bend to your will. There are no laws which you can use to direct the development of the game. Once again, this game is a hobby. Hobbyists make it, and hobbyists play it.
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Rigwyn

  • Prospects
  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2033
  • ...
    • View Profile
Re: Rigwyn for GM
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2015, 02:45:32 am »
Quote
What makes Rigwyn 'unacceptable' and Eonwind 'acceptable'?  This is a serious question.

Honestly, I think the biggest thing is that I am outspoken and will not curb what I say in order to avoid conflicting with others who run Planeshift. I am fine with that. I would rather speak freely and as a result, be considered unfit for such roles than feel like I'm going to be questioned and bagered over every little thing I say.

As for the prospect thing, I'm still open to contributing and writing and stuff. I don't really care much about the personality and opinions of those who manage and/or develop the game. It's a good game, it's free, and I think we should all just put our personal differences aside and contribute in some capacity. I don't care if somone thinks I'm a jerk because of something I've said, that's their opinion/judgment and they are entitled to it. I have my own opinions and judgments and I am quite content with them too.