Factions and Notoriety

[Can-ned Food]

Gedundk was interested in exploring the sewers; kra's a curious fellow.

So, when kra encountered the two rough characters haunting an entrance, Finra Neticlo and Jirris Athano, kra decided to gain their favor.  It was rather easy to do, as it happens.
Kra did this merely so that kra could venture into the sewers sans accosting from them.  Kra did not want to join the Cabal of Whispers.
It is understandable, however, that not only would Relliom and them think otherwise, but Harnquist too, as well as suspicion from Percival if perhaps he noticed you frequenting the sewers from that entrance.

Anyways, this has the unfortunate side-effect of giving Gedundk messages such as these in kras CC description:

You don't care much for others.

You step on others for your own gain.

et c.

If these are indications of notoriety, then write them like it does with those for the Associations, like the Artists or the Crafters.  Granted, the Blackflame Whispers probably think of you according to the aforementioned statements, so perhaps something like
Some think that you don't care much for others.
If they are reminders of how your character will behave during dialogue or of the expressions shown to NPCs — who can't respond to information provided by a player the same way other PCs can —, then they need to be subject to editing (Ă  la mode d'http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=41928.0).  This could be done either by allowing the player to enter a text string which would then be parsed for keywords, or by using a system of sliders to provide the attitude presented to NPCs and to generate text for PCs from that.

EDIT:  bunch o' typos

[Rigwyn]

Back when Xillix ran settings, quests were supposed to be done ICly and it was said that there would be some sort of accountability to follow. Ie. if you did "good" quests or "bad" quests, a gm might involve you somehow in an RP based on that. As far as I know, that never really materialized. A character was also supposed to develop a reputation among NPCs based on quest choices. I think the idea here was that NPCs would talk about you and as a result, you might gain or lose trust and possibly the prices you paid them for certain things might be affected.

I agree, the wording here is rather awkward. It attempts to define your character a little too much.

I think those who role play have learned to ignore this sort of information as it typically is not representative of the character but of the quests that the player did. Those who don't roleplay could probably care less.

[Mordaan]

As it is now factions are terribly underutilized.  We really need to overhaul that whole aspect of the quest system, but it's a project for the future...and a big one that will take time.  So as of now, factions have no bearing on quests, except for actually receiving faction points.  But we still hold out that they may have an impact sometime in the future.  We shall see.

[Siteya]

Quests and leveling should have nothing to do with roleplay, there is absolutely no way that the two can merge in PS, when your character is developed and complex, which many that play regularly are, the quests just seem silly and out of context, and those that rp their levels and quest knowledge just kill me with their lack of creativity. Unless it is a game where there is a DM managing your daily events, it is just to cookie cutter for a roleplayer to converge the two and really should be avoided because it is lame. Sue me for my frankness, but I would like to think we can spawn beautiful stories without having to discuss the quests and levels we achieved while drinking beers at the bar. zzzzzzzzzzz So with that said, Siteya currently has a high faction with Laanx LOL. When I level and quest, I try to do it OOC incognito, I have found no reasonable way to merge the two that would not be silly.

[Eonwind]

Quests and leveling should have nothing to do with roleplay, there is absolutely no way that the two can merge in PS, when your character is developed and complex, which many that play regularly are, the quests just seem silly and out of context, and those that rp their levels and quest knowledge just kill me with their lack of creativity. Unless it is a game where there is a DM managing your daily events, it is just to cookie cutter for a roleplayer to converge the two and really should be avoided because it is lame. Sue me for my frankness, but I would like to think we can spawn beautiful stories without having to discuss the quests and levels we achieved while drinking beers at the bar. zzzzzzzzzzz So with that said, Siteya currently has a high faction with Laanx LOL. When I level and quest, I try to do it OOC incognito, I have found no reasonable way to merge the two that would not be silly.

I personally disagree with this opinion. The way quests are designed is to make them as IC as possible. Of course there are lot of limitations when a quest is run by a computer instead of a human being: the choices are limited, the outcome (albeit many quests account for more than a single outcome) are limited, etc.
However the game experience we would like to provide is an immersive world where your deed are recognized by the peoples living in it, including the NPCs. Therefore if a character is well recognized by the Iron temple members or the Blue Way circle members they will recognize and greet him with the title he achieved. The exact way this will be done is yet under development because this must not be too much "invasive" in the game experience (e.g. no flood of NPCs messages) and of course "hidden" factions must not give away the char affiliation, etc.
Of course I understand complex characters and experienced players will find it difficult to find this system completely satisfying but maybe we can find a middle ground (e.g. GM could remove quest done by a char if that's too OOC or faction points can be lowered the same way if a character is not considered a master in the way circle anymore etc.).
Regarding discussion about quests achievements and levels achieved while drinking beers they may bore but remember they could be a good way for new players to start a communication with other players in a IC way and learn how to RP. Afterall nobody was born a great RPer but we all learn along the way.

[Wocib]

(...) Afterall nobody was born a great RPer but we all learn along the way.

Apparently some think they did...

[Donari Tyndale]

Quests are IC? Fun interpretation.

A: Hey, so what did you do today?
B: Uhm, I helped Amidison and the Octarchy stop the crystal eclipse.
A: Oh, uhm, another eclipse? Didn't they learn from when I helped them?

[Kaerli_Stronwylle]

Quests are IC? Fun interpretation.

A: Hey, so what did you do today?
B: Uhm, I helped Amidison and the Octarchy stop the crystal eclipse.
A: Oh, uhm, another eclipse? Didn't they learn from when I helped them?

Yeah.  Single-player oriented heroic questing has no place whatsoever in a MMO.  If you want IC quests, make them so they can be sensibly repeated by every character in the game without breaking any storyline continuity or creating plot holes.

[cdmoreland]

I agree with Eonwind that the quests can help with rp and help develop characters in the game. Many will give one a much deeper understanding of Yliakum that should help rp. It would not be a stretch to be in Kada-El's and say, "I need to run a message out to the Eagle for Admidison and think I'll have a meal and a few drinks for the road." 

[Eonwind]

I agree with Eonwind that the quests can help with rp and help develop characters in the game. Many will give one a much deeper understanding of Yliakum that should help rp. It would not be a stretch to be in Kada-El's and say, "I need to run a message out to the Eagle for Admidison and think I'll have a meal and a few drinks for the road."

This is exactly what I meant. Some of the heroic quests we have are a concession to the gameplay and the fun that must never come less in a game.

[Can-ned Food]

A little off topic here, but I wanted to add some helpful input.

I'm glad someone else mentioned the incompatibility that such eventful quests have in a gameworld where the historical nature of such events is a valued part of the RP.  The reason that they include them in less strict MMOGs is to allow all players a chance to partake in some aspects of history.  E.g., in a certain so-called MMORPG — it was really an MMOG in the theme of an RPG and not an RPG itself — players didn't give a shit, and if they did then they grouped and did the quests together and just overlooked it (like on the RP servers).
Well, there's ways to develop that style of play, but that's not what I wanted to share.

One solution to this dilemma is to have episodic stories, which allow for epic conflicts and derring-do while compromising with the everyday, and accommodates a persistent world where all players aren't on the same schedule.  The same thing done in other serial drama like comic books, golden–age radio, oral traditions since time immemorial, and even player–driven gameworlds like EVE Online, excepting that they often don't have the depth of detail necessary to reach the same epic qualities.
Rift, from Trion Worlds, actually made a fairly good attempt at that sort of thing, although most of their players tend to be WoW scions, and so they also emulate it to draw people off Bluzzard's market.

Eh, so anyway, although certainly many quests will be of a very mundane nature, and at that not really the sorts of quests you see in faërie stories, there could also be opportunity to have repeatable adventures.

[Rigwyn]

NPCs can assign merit or faction points based on the few actions that they see, but the role play reveals the nature of the character over time and NPCs are completely blind to that. For this reason, I believe that faction points are pretty useless when it comes to actual role play. Likewise, you cannot make assumptions about a character based on them. For this reason, spells that reveal things about characters based on faction points are pretty inaccurate.

Quests are a good source of settings information, but personally, I would not try to claim that my quest experience is IC for the reasons stated above. That's just too problematic. You do quests to gain items, access to locked areas, and to learn about the game, that's it.