Using magic against NPCs

[Rigwyn]

Exactly.  Many RPers can't afford to be going through top-of-the-line HW every two or three years

Not to nit-pick, but I don't RP because I cannot afford a fast computer.   

[kaerli2]

Exactly.  Many RPers can't afford to be going through top-of-the-line HW every two or three years

Not to nit-pick, but I don't RP because I cannot afford a fast computer.   

It's correlation not causation Rigwyn

[Rigwyn]

Exactly.  Many RPers can't afford to be going through top-of-the-line HW every two or three years

Not to nit-pick, but I don't RP because I cannot afford a fast computer.   

It's correlation not causation Rigwyn

No, you said many role players *cannot afford to*
You are not indicating correlation here, you are saying that a lack of money is the cause.

Do you think I'm poor ?
Im not.
I AM stingy though

[Symasta]

I'd like to bring in a new aspect:
Now I had some time and I did a few tests:
And it seems that walking in a circle and casting spells, which I thing is acceptable for a mage to move at least a little and not expecting to kill with one hit, is able to kill dlayos or any other monster because they are inable to hit you, as long as you take care and walk in circles. I mean I tested it and got hit on the third try cause I was not careful enough, but it works.
Now is that fair? You are in the pit and you are able to kill them. Someone being not the best in weapon nor magic can hit first and then walk in circles and kill the dlayo. But again you are exploiting the game, aren't you?
Now I have an idea:
Why is it impossible to cast spells when running? Maybe if you were charging a spell, but casting when running should be possible (maybe at a certain lvl).
On the other hand it should be impossible to cast a spell like energy arrow or flame burst at a target directly behind you. I would say that the arrow/fire ball would emerge from your hand and you'd need to focus on your opponent, so to speak see him.
Now we already have the facing thing in sword fight, can't we get it for magic too and allow people to run, but maybe at a slower pace then when not casting any spells, so it would be fair to real weapon fighters?
Then again, I guess people would just run backwards and cast spells...... 

[Rigwyn]

Just my opinion - this is one of those areas where exploit and tactical play overlap. Its both fair play and an exploit at the same time. This is what I mean by a "grey area" - white + black.
A black or white answer is not going to be suitable.

A grey answer like "it depends" or "its a judgement call" is probably most fitting.

[Bragan]

Tactical in my eyes does mean exploit, at least as far as the enemy's "natural" limitations, though not necessarily the game's. Bring a gun to a fist fight? Yes! Were I to fight, I'd fight to win, not to see who's best in "fair combat". If the dlayo's aren't smart enough to back away from the wall when someone's pelting them with magic willy-nilly, that's their deal. But don't do it and then complain if (when?) they get smarter and come 'round to beat you up, or if something goes wrong like them disappearing -- maybe they finally ran away!

This game is no-where near final, things continue to be improved. A little while ago you could "climb" by repeatedly jumping, and when the glitch finally got fixed, people got mad because the devs fixed a bug. Huh. If you're exploiting a bug and a GM doesn't say anything about it because it generally doesn't harm anyone and it hasn't been fixed yet, fine. It's your choice whether you ignore it, or if you exploit it. Just keep in mind that the current behavior is not the intended one, and won't last. Hopefully it'll be fixed soon but if it isn't it's because the devs have to balance day jobs, a social life, and dealing with programming and design issues that may seem simple to those of us on the outside, but rarely are so once all the little interactions are considered. The beauty of Open Source is that if something really bugs you, you're free to take the code and do something about it. And I'm really not being sarcastic in saying that, though sometimes I think we all need to be reminded of how much work all this represents.

Basically, we're forgetting that the game is still lacking features, such as a (even) better AI, racial modifiers that I'm sure include stat maxima, and many more that are part of a balanced vision for the game. But the game's not yet there, and probably won't be for a while. It's still very playable though, and until the game's mechanics are implemented to a point where they actually have a bearing on these philosophical discussions, I really don't worry too much about it.

[Sarras Volcae]

a fair fight is fist to fist, do you really think its fair, when a person with a pistol or an assult rifle comes up behind you and kills you before you even know they are there?

Do you really think its fair, when a person who is 30kg heavier than you and is well trained in fist to fist fight comes before you and kills you with 1 blow?

idk who this was for

anyway, yes, if i instigated it. gladiators and anyone in an arena knows it's fair.

i don't see anything wrong with exploiting, either. it's just being smart. unless you're fighting through a wall, i see nothing wrong.

[kaerli2]

Tactical in my eyes does mean exploit, at least as far as the enemy's "natural" limitations, though not necessarily the game's. Bring a gun to a fist fight? Yes! Were I to fight, I'd fight to win, not to see who's best in "fair combat". If the dlayo's aren't smart enough to back away from the wall when someone's pelting them with magic willy-nilly, that's their deal. But don't do it and then complain if (when?) they get smarter and come 'round to beat you up, or if something goes wrong like them disappearing -- maybe they finally ran away!

This game is no-where near final, things continue to be improved. A little while ago you could "climb" by repeatedly jumping, and when the glitch finally got fixed, people got mad because the devs fixed a bug. Huh. If you're exploiting a bug and a GM doesn't say anything about it because it generally doesn't harm anyone and it hasn't been fixed yet, fine. It's your choice whether you ignore it, or if you exploit it. Just keep in mind that the current behavior is not the intended one, and won't last. Hopefully it'll be fixed soon but if it isn't it's because the devs have to balance day jobs, a social life, and dealing with programming and design issues that may seem simple to those of us on the outside, but rarely are so once all the little interactions are considered. The beauty of Open Source is that if something really bugs you, you're free to take the code and do something about it. And I'm really not being sarcastic in saying that, though sometimes I think we all need to be reminded of how much work all this represents.

Basically, we're forgetting that the game is still lacking features, such as a (even) better AI, racial modifiers that I'm sure include stat maxima, and many more that are part of a balanced vision for the game. But the game's not yet there, and probably won't be for a while. It's still very playable though, and until the game's mechanics are implemented to a point where they actually have a bearing on these philosophical discussions, I really don't worry too much about it.

And then the NPCs blatantly exploit bugs from time to time too...Kaerli got smacked by a Dlayo's sword THROUGH  A STONE WALL once.  nice job, eh?

[Earowo]

dont forget about when they hit you from half way across the arena, during loading screens, when you've logged out or crashed, and other things npc's exploit