PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: Agape13 on July 04, 2002, 05:58:06 pm
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Will there be any player killing robbing stealing mugging looting or any such action against other players? I sure hope so....
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read the FAQ.
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If not killing at least KO
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There you go again Parasite, with the wise atitude....JK.
I was trying to convince some ppl of introducing PvP conflicts into the game, outside of the arena, but was cut down at the root.... :(
And what does KO mean?
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KO = KnockOut, don\'t u ever watch boxing? :D
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8o WOW, wow, i thought it was like a game term or something, did not even try to look at it that way...
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If PvP free for all is your main desire, there are several (failed) games out there you could play to have this. I would suggest you find them, where essentially all people who don\'t share your view will have been run off by the other people who feel the way you do.
- Vengeance
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As i have pointed out on several ocations, I like Pking just for PKing. Since most of the players are more inteligent than your average mob, they make for an interesting hunt. And as i have also said, i kill but dun loot, leave the corpse where it is. I mean it\'s one thing to kill, and other to steal one\'s hard earned stuff.
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In truth I love Pking?the problem is, most if not all pkers (myself included) have at one time done things just to cause grief to other players. It may have been corpse camping or it may simply have been singling one person out and killing them over and over again.
Now I would say that the only people I ever did this to had it coming (because of insults or whatever) but I only stopped when I thought it was fair, or the person logged off.
Another thing I was part of in EQ on the race war server, I was part of large invasions into city areas and taking people out at their spawn points. In EQ it was easy to find.
At the time I would have said ?Well this is the Race War? but now that I am on the other side of the counter, I want to create a gaming experience where such things can be enjoyed on occasion by all. While there will be PvP areas such as arenas?I am pretty sure there will be areas that encourage, or at least allow the player to attack others based on faction, or culture, or guild. The details of this are not clear yet, but as time goes on I hope it becomes possible to have these areas and encourage a style of play that is fun by most.
One thing that I can assure you. Killing another person except in a dual/arena setting will have an effect on faction. Though in most cases this will be a change that is wanted. This may affect thing in a no intended way.
I am a strong advocate of treating NPCs as PCs as far as rules go. But this goes both ways, if killing an NPC would change your faction standing, so will killing a PC.
While I personally would love for Characters to become Outcasts and Bandit Types, it will require a lot of thought and safeguards to ensure it is done in a fashion where players can not ruin the experience of other gamers (attacking new characters, or weaker characters, over and over). But I would like a way for a stronger character to shut another player up when he is insulting everyone because he knows he can get away with it. But at the moment no clear way that can not be abused has come to mind.
I guess that is the Challenge. To create possibilities that taken to extremes can not be abused.
In the end there are many failed or very poor games that have this problem and there are beginning to be some games that offer solutions.
I am hoping we can find an adequate solution. The PK on PK off thing is very poor, and a simplistic solution.
But we will offer interesting areas where Pking is possible, and or where group Vs. Group play is possible?Or team Vs team play is possible. While I have some semi creative ideas. I am not sure if they are worth implementing?though I think they are :D
-Paxx
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I played this one game where every now and then tehy would let anyone pk anyone wherever they wanted...it would only last like two days or something and the PKers would get their fill of slaughtering as many people as possible....they also made it where you were safe inside buildings so that if you knew ya would be killed you just stay in the buildings (runnig from oen to another) it was pretty fun :D
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What game was that kiern that sounds so fun. :D
(http://www.guildtools.net/cgi-bin/sigs/116/deathscythe8.jpg)
OutKast Tha Profet
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Yep i agree with the TheGeneral i am a bountyhunter and i love to kill and capture but i do not steal and i am also a man of honor i do not lie i just like capturing the poor things and i also think there should be a forum where u can post bounties like the bounty forum and people can pay u for killing someone in the game for them or something i love that its fun and easrier for us bountyhunters to find our bounties please take this into concidiration i will be posting it at the wish list too. :D
(http://www.guildtools.net/cgi-bin/sigs/116/deathscythe8.jpg)
OutKast Tha Profet
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if, we have Pking we will have a bounty system...but it will be in game and not out of game
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Well, this is going to be long, so stay with me. I will put in some smilies to make it a bit friendly, and not so boring.
Anyhow. As paxx has mentioned, PK could be a way of getting rid of an unwanted/bad player that flames everyone, ninja loot, and generally harrases all. Instead of deleting his acount, so he can make a new one and continue with the same stuff, other players can make him leave for good, making this game a happier place for a bigger comunity. :D
The problem with spawn killing can be EASYLY sold, by making the main town, villages a heaven, or a safe place for players, no one can touch you. Also, by making the area around the city where the noobs spawn a safe place, and i am talking about a BIG area, this would give them a chance to lvl up, and hunt without any hear once or ever.
Furthermore. By making PKing only available to player of a sertain skill LVL. What i mean is, a player can NOT, and will not be allowed to attack anyone untill he/she is has reached a lvl 10 for example in any single skill (the lvl can be worked out later on). But that will get the noobs a chance to grow and get better armor, so that they can take several blows, and will have enough money to buy pots to heal up. This way a stronger players will not be able to pic on the noobs right of the bat, even if they are out of the safe zone. And the noobs will not be able to pic on each other, as well as other STRONGER players since they are not lvl 10 in any skill yet.
And when a player feels that they are strong enough, they can get to lvl 10, and be allowed to PK, and be prone to PKing. :))
And i mean, i read so many posts about REALISM, and making the game as real as possible. But why take out the PKing than, what kind of a real thing is that? PKing adds for danger, looking behind u, and seeing someone creeping up on you when you are 100 meters deep in the cave, and knowing that only one of you will make it out alive. It also not EVERY player would chose to PK, i mean for every ONE PKer, there would be like 50 non PKing ppl.
I hope you had the patience to read this, and actully agree with me on some of this stuff. REMEMBER, that this is only my opinion, and this is not meant to anything but that. I also hope that i have convinced some of you about the \"joys\" of PKing.
I understand that there is a whole other story to Pking, but this thing is meant to be bias(most likely spelled wrong). So if anyone want to add to this, they are more than welcome to.
Thx for your time. :D
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This will might be long, and while I mean no direct insult to you TheGeneral, I think you have a very skewed vision of reality. And this entire post is designed to hopefully change your mind a bit or to distance myself from your remarks because if people think of PKing as you describe?there will be not even a semblance of PKing and I feel that will be a shame.
(in essence this post is attacking your concept of PKing, why I am making that clear I don?t know I know you are intelligent enough to figure that out)
If your complete PKing vision was in place?something similar to Ultima Online (original incarnation would appear) Gangs of people attacking others just for the joy of knowing the other player is cursing at his Key Board.
Where groups would camp out around places where the PK vulnerable would be going to?in your example the level 10 people.
That would cause nothing but grief.
Your argument of making it Realistic (one of our design goals) and that it would be more realistic to allow across the board PKing?where in the history of civilization has there ever been rampant killing of people with no consequence and little reason, you may say all the time Wars, The French Revolution, the Nazis?
Well that is where I would say ?That is when Civilization has broken down, and that it was not Civilization that did it.?
In a standard Civilization (reality) when you kill the residents and youth of a town, city?people would hunt you down and string you up on a pole, crucify you, burn you at the stake, imprison you?
So if you want a ?Realistic? PK system like you describe, there will have to be Bounty Hunters, who once they find you will take you to who ever is paying the most for you.
The Payer, in this case would then choose what to do with you, since people return from the dead in this game?killing you would not be an option that would enter the mind?torture?but since this will be geared to PG-PG13 we can?t have that?imprisonment.
Your Character will be imprisoned indefinitely in a tiny 4x5 cell in a magical plane of existence?that keeps you nourished enough to stay alive but not enough to try an escape, and all while not allowing you to move or speak?in essence your Character would be gone from the game world?unless someone of power and influence wanted you back.
This I feel would not be fun for anyone.
(Welcome to my twisted view of reality)
So, I recommend you try and come up with ways to include some of the PKing aspects while not destroying the fun for other players?
I have Ideas for special areas and that these areas have different rules, this would be fun and a nice change from the routine. But would only affect those who wanted to be there.
I have ideas where most of the zones be subject to Faction Vs. Faction PKing, only factions that oppose each other, but the truth is most of the Devs feel this would not be fun.
I have ideas where a player can in essence become totally for a NPC faction?he can only do business in certain locations where most players would not, upon going to anyplace he is KOS to most?but he can kill whoever he wishes.
If enough players go this rout?there would almost be the Pking that you desire?but there is no chance that that player is going to the major PC towns?and most PCs would and possibly could not do business with you. Your Chat abilities would only be with those who are similarly outcast.
And there are a few other ideas I have floating around. But your wanting to be a ?grief Pker? just shuts any doors I might open others on the Dev team to, they think PK and they think of exactly what you describe wanting.
Well that is my opinion on the subject
-Paxx
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Well, after reading your post i have realized that you completely branched out from the ideas that i have said, as though u did not even read my post, or read certain parts of it, and made up the rest. I have NO idea where you go the Nazis ideas, or about the Wars and stuff, because that is a twisted version of what i said. Not only did I \"sugest\", and keep in mind this is only sugestions, how to implement PKing into the game, but also how to prevent unwanted PKing. I have never played Ultima, and would not know about this, but from what you have said, Pking was allowed ANYWHERE. But that is what i was sugesting, make areas for PKing, somehow i think we are arguing the same thing. And as for reality, i am not the one that wants \"reality\" in the game. As a matter of fact i would stay as far from it as possible.
And I am sure you have read some of the posts below, if you did you would know that it\'s not all about stealing the other guy\'s stuff. I dun know what games you have player, but they all seem to be messed up (to put it kindly) from the way u describe.
Even further, u can make that you drop some of your stuff when you die, how is that for reality? Or once u die, that is it, your character is gone, FOREVER, that would stop any sorts of actions completely.
Still just sugesting. I mean that is what the forums are for, right. :D
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The only part I may have misunderstood about the first post is weather or not the character chooses to PK and be PK vulnerable, or if after a certain point (based on skill) he is.
Originally posted by TheGeneral
The problem with spawn killing can be EASYLY sold, by making the main town, villages a heaven, or a safe place for players, no one can touch you. Also, by making the area around the city where the noobs spawn a safe place, and i am talking about a BIG area, this would give them a chance to lvl up, and hunt without any hear once or ever.
Furthermore. By making PKing only available to player of a sertain skill LVL. What i mean is, a player can NOT, and will not be allowed to attack anyone untill he/she is has reached a lvl 10 for example in any single skill (the lvl can be worked out later on). But that will get the noobs a chance to grow and get better armor, so that they can take several blows, and will have enough money to buy pots to heal up. This way a stronger players will not be able to pic on the noobs right of the bat, even if they are out of the safe zone. And the noobs will not be able to pic on each other, as well as other STRONGER players since they are not lvl 10 in any skill yet.
And when a player feels that they are strong enough, they can get to lvl 10, and be allowed to PK, and be prone to PKing. :))
I had read it as once you get to level 10 or whatever in a number of skills (become competent) you are subject to PKing.
I am now not sure what you meant. I am sorry if I mistook what you said. But now that I have reread it about 10 times (thinking I may be a moron) I am now sure that you may have miswritten something or just not made it clear.
I often go off on tangents and I often go off from my original intent, and at the same time forget paragraphs thinking I typed them and I just thought I did :-)
The issue with selective PKing (I chose if I can PK and am subject to PK) is no one does it after a short time.
The problem with everyone being subject to PKing in most areas is it causes grief.
My use of Nazies, French revolution, War and such was to basically say I know there are times in history where mass killing happened, but that it was not the norm in Semi-civilized cultures/communities.
As far as strong man (you die once) world?it has been discussed, and discarded.
As for reality in the game :-)
I really feel reality is really overused among the dev crew and they really need to say we are really just building a really cool world that will really take a lot of real world factors into account, but not at the price of game enjoyment ;-)
I just wanted to see how much I could overuse Real?
But the point is still there.
As far as dropping equipment?I wanted that to be the case, I wanted PCs to be treated as NPCs when they die. If the NPC loots then I have to kill him to get whatever I lost? and in the case of animals I wanted them to drag the still living bodies of characters away as they avoid direct combat.
But that was overruled :-(
I had a different system that went off in the other direction?way into the fantasy, but that takes too long to describe.
Anyway I think you are right in that we may be arguing for the same thing.
But from what I read on your post, it seemed that PKing was nearly every ware, this will not happen. But there may be other ways to do it, and if one that causes no grief where created it would likely get implemented?the problem is figuring what is acceptable grief and what is not.
In the end the best description of the Goals of the Game is to have a Paper and Pencil feel, and freedom. But have the quick yet complex combat that computers can provide.
If you read the quote of yours that I added you may be able to understand why I mistook your post.
As it is Pking is a tough sell with the dev team because of how it ruined many games. And suggesting Open season on all players above a certain level except in newbie areas and cities, will probably never make it into a major MMORPG again, except novelty servers or something like that.
?that is how I understood your post?
-Paxx
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I really wonder why people still discuss Pking. I mean, there have been dozens of posts about it, I read all possible options more then once. But sice most of the devs don\'t agree, pking will not be in the game. I joined the Dev team some months ago, and yet I\'ve seen numerous discussions about it in the dev channel on IRC. But every discussion ended the same way: tehre will be no pking. I like pk too, don\'t get me wrong. But after all there posts and discussions it became quite useless to talk about it, since it\'s not ging to change anyway. If I were you guys I\'d let it rest for now.
I think when we actually have a playable game and the people are demanding pk, we will have it anyway. But as long as we had no chance to test our rules system I don\'t think its going to change.
Discuss all you want, I just say that I think it\'s useless (for now).
No offence ppl 8)
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Actually ParaSite, i am the same person you have most of those discussions about PKing on IRC :D . And i do fully understand that it will not by implemented in the game, for understood reasons. But it can still be discussed further to see what ppl think about it, and their experiences with it, you know, the general opinion of the masses.
The Edited Part:
And suggesting Open season on all players above a certain level except in newbie areas and cities, will probably never make it into a major MMORPG again, except novelty servers or something like that.
Well, you got it right. But i am talking about a REALLY high lvl, like a lvl that only the very few would be able to get to. At this lvl you can even have non-drop armor and weapons so that your quested one time only armor would not be lost. And even if you do lose money, you would have 100 times as much in the bank (so that would not effect you much)
P.S. pardon my horrible spelling.
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Invariably, the people who advocate free-for-all PKing here have never played a PKing game and therefore have no idea what they are talking about. They only envision themselves as the uber player who can kill anything, not themselves as the clueness n00b who gets killed 4 times in the first 20 minutes they are playing.
FFA PKing is NOT fun and we are NOT doing it, period. We may have selective environments where PvP combat is allowed or appropriate, but it will be to enhance fun, not realism.
- Vengeance
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I think you name says it all, Vengeance.
And your words hurt me. I dun know if you meant this for me, but i sure looked that way.
Reading the above posts would have given you the idea THAT i do understand that PKing will not be implemented, and that is IT. As well as realism, I do not like that in games. But you still go on.
As for the Pking games that i have played, or games that i have played without PKing, here they are:
Lineage
Redmoon
ElKardian
Elemental Saga(for a bit)
Ragnarok Online
Endless Ages
Helbreath
AND Shining Lore will open on July 20th.
I do not know how many games you have to play to be still considered a noob, but i think i know a bit about the world of MMORPGs, they all follow the basic concept.
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I haven\'t read the entire thread (sorry, no time), so if anyone has mentioned what I am about to say, forgive me. What about some form of punishment? Like there could be a Guard \"guild\" made and run by the developers. Anyone above a certain level could come and join. If someone PKs they are added to a list that the \"Guards\" could view. The more PKs you carry out, the more effort the \"Guardians\" put forth to capture you. You could be put in prisom. You could be fined. A number of different things. PKing, mugging, etc. is very important for guilds such as mine. Also, there should be protected areas where n00bs can live and NO ONE can PK.
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I wasn\'t referring to anyone in particular with this, as we have had at least 20 different threads on this topic.
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Could be kewl if you added like an arena of some kind, where you could challenge other players to a duel, then others could come and spectate the battle, or you could hold PvP tournaments there or something :D If you ask me, that\'d be really sweet :)
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If, PKing is going to implented, imo, it should be restricted to certain dueling areas, such as arenas, or a wood. Why? See Diablo I and II. People tried all possible tricks to kill you and loot your corpse. You can\'t just \'expect\' people to play with honour.
The idea of dueling arenas I support, for that way it still allows people to settle their conflict in swords.
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I think it\'s a bad Idea to stop a combat when a participant doesn\'t want to fight, I mean; this wouldn\'t happen if it was in a real life! ?(
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I am asuming you did not read the entire post, otherwise you would know that this game is not being build to simulate real life. Killing in real life blows, and you would know that IF you read the entire post! X(
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There needs to be PK\'ing thats the main reason i play mmorpg\'s because of the pk\'ing if there is no pk\'ing i will have to hurt my self for spending so much time in these forums. X( In YoUr EyeS ForSaKen Me X(
(http://www.guildtools.net/cgi-bin/sigs/116/deathscythe8.jpg)
Death is only the beginning you dont want to know the rest.:evil:
\"Hunt This\" (http://theorder.0catch.com/)
OutKast Tha Profet:evil:
Secondary Leader of \"TOB\"
\"The Order of the Blade\"
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*hands him a shotgun* HERE, knock yourself out, you still don\'t seem to get it, THERE WILL BE NO PKing! X( X(
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*grabs the shotgun and whips around really fast and runs off laughing muahhahahaa:evil:*
(http://www.guildtools.net/cgi-bin/sigs/116/deathscythe8.jpg)
Death is only the beginning you dont want to know the rest.:evil:
\"Hunt This\" (http://theorder.0catch.com/)
OutKast Tha Profet:evil:
Secondary Leader of \"TOB\"
\"The Order of the Blade\"
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Sorry but, my post was just about what I taught about player killing!
So it doesn\'t need to take in account what you said.
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I don\'t like to be the one who makes waves, so I\'m glad to see that there are others who don\'t necessarily like PKing outside of an arena setting. I feel the need to just add a couple of cents to the pot on this issue.
I have played countless games where pking is ultimately allowed...either in revamp or added \"pk\" servers. Here is what happens to the casual gamer in every instance that I have been a party to.
1) They can\'t play 24/7 and therefore can\'t become the Uber prince of destruction, and therefore become instant corpses each and every time they move out of whatever \"safety\" zone has been established. This leads to pretty darn quick disgruntledness.
2) They lose so much money in \"buying back con\" or \"looting\" that they can never afford anything else.
3)(I think that this one affects more people than just the prime time players) Everyone spends so much time either \"seeking revenge on that jerk that killed me\" or calling everyone names that they never experience the sense of \"community\" that makes online games fun to play.
I feel I have lifted a great weight from my chest. Thanks for allowing it. :D