Lawless areas (i.e. for trading routes)

[khoridor]

A truly great idea. ...and if one does not wish to take the short path through the PvP zone, they can take the long way around. [...]

I can't disagree with that (although I don't care much for PvP), if the zone looks obviously dangerous... but not too long the detour; there are already enough complains about long distances on this forum. 

Some suggestions about where one would put such a zone, in case the idea gets support from the dev. team?

[Rigwyn]

Being that we are talking about doing this on Laanx ( the RP server ) I would ask "Would this add anything to roleplay or would it take away from it ? "

I don't see this adding anything simply because you cannot force someone to role play by putting game mechanics in their way. Those who role play respect the rp environent and react to it. They treat the rp world as if its real for the most part. I think at best it would add some pvp action if the benefit to taking the shortcut was worth the risk.

Scenario 1.

Miner Joe has spent and hour or two mining and is ready to unload. He could care less about RP. He is just interested in leveling or hoarding tria which is fine because he is not bothering anyone. To each his/her/kra own.

A.

* A player sees the miner taking the pvp shortcut and tries to rp with him. "Halt ! Or I'll beat you with that sack of platinum ore !"
* The miner thinks "another stupid roleplayer wasting my time" and walks right though him as if he's not there.
* One of the players takes out the other player in a pvp duel.
* If the baddie wins he gains nothing - the plat follows the miner to the DR.

How did the pvp zone enhance RP in this case ?
It added nothing. People who dont rp .. well.. they just dont rp. period.
 
B.

* A role player sees the miner and tries to rp with him
* The miner is a roleplayer himself. He plays the part of being held up and even offers some plat for safe passage.

Can we really give the pvp zone credit for enhancing rp in this case ?
Did the miner RP being a victim because of the pvp zone ? or would he have done so without the pvp zone ?

C.

* Six baddie rpers decide to control the shortcut from the mines to the smelters. They block off the pvp zone and are prepared to strike. They are playing hardball. They impose a tax of 5000 tria per person to pass safely.

* Those miners who don't rp find the ordeal to be annoying. They use /tell, /1  or /guild to summon some help OOCly
* Those who are roleplayers rp the situation because they are role players - not because of the pvp zone.
* Some miners get killed and are steaming mad because they are overloaded now. They put you on their kill list - whether you were disguised or not. They will be sure to annoy you in the future.
* Some miners kill off the baddies and are now glad that they are gone. They quickly forget about it and go back to mining.

What did this add to rp ?

In a game where you drop your possessions on the ground when you die this might attract some pvp action since there would be a reward for doing it.

[MellasFenixxes]

Non-RPers aren't welcome on Laanx, so the examples that include those kind of situations should not happen - or the victim should learn from it.
In the case it does happen and the victim proves to be unwilling to learn or understand, then you can always use /report and have them sent to epzc. where they'll prolly be a lot happier.

Personally I think it's a fantastic idea. It gives reason for folk to take travel more seriously [It's dangerous to travel outside the city!], and even ask for a bodyguard in Hydlaa.
"Greetings sir, I have a meeting in the bronze doors, could you please escort me safely through the wilderness? I'm a poor man, but I can offer you one golden circle for your troubles.'

Though maybe a safe route on the side of the map would be appreciated for those who *really* do not want to be disturbed with whatever they're doing.
Just my two tria

[Xoel]

Thought I'd point out EZPCUSA isn't a PVP server (or at least wasn't last time I checked).

It's simply non-RP.

Bigger PvP zones would mean when griefers wish to grief any and all players they can do so at ease, not what PlaneShift as a game wants.

[empty_aka]

I will try to clarify it again.

Lawless trade route:

Such a route would add the possibility of a real encounter, during a trading run in a group. In this group, you can gather many kinds of characters, as everywhere else i think but the difference is, that a fight at the end will definitive brings an end in a fight. An end for the traders or rouges. If the rouges do a little bit RP before engaging the trader group isn't important, cause both "teams" got their destination. RP in each group is doing well and everyone's having fun. But they know, that they can be ambushed by rouges, that danger gives that situation more action, reality, maybe adrenalin.

Secured trade route:

Same es before, but you can't loose (what's very strange in a game). You don't even have to form a group, cause you don't have to be afraid of been robbed, or even killed on your run. You're doing some RP with the rouges, give something to them, cause they can't kill you and steal you whole stuff and they will never know what you're trading.

My personal sight of the PVP part and how it's handled in PS:

For me RP and PVP should never separated from each other. Anyways, both got their fans. Some want only RP, some only PVP and that's... Bleh to me you know? I could take thousand examples of only RP or only PVP or even only PVE games and that's all bullshit. Only the combination of those parts can make a game really great. There's no fun forever killing monsters, looting stuff, selling it and sitting on all that gold and stuff. Further, there's no fun with only PVP related games. You kill players 1000 times, get killed by 1000 players. Only RP (ohhh i will antagonize many people now... ^^) sucks too, cause i'm talkin' 2 hours of gameplay without getting dynamic fighting action. It seems that most people just don't understand, that a balance between things, make those really great.

Don't get me wrong, i really like PS and have already spend some hours with making friends, helping others and so on. It's OS and runs well (except on my Fedora 12 but WinXP so i don't care that much ^^[It's a driver problem for those who care]) and PS got sh*tloads of potential. But the balance isn't well, like i've already suggested. So i'll suggest to change things, a bit at a time.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Griefers ruin everything, nuff said.

[empty_aka]

Maybe they can, but where should a griefer mesh up here? And it's not nuff if you don't explain. 

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

In a mature and rational world, your ideas would work fine.

In reality, I don't see them as practical.

I too would love broad pvp zones off the roads, but griefers would do things like lure newbs off the road and kill them.

The good mobs and loots are mostly off the roads, so when you're off the roads griefers would just kill spam anyone they find.

It might be your idea of fun, but many players would simply leave rather than face the grief.

Imo you're applying rational thought in a manner that simply would not mesh with the reality of how and why people play with different styles.

I have spent years watching WAR between rper and pler types on these forums before providing alternative servers for varied play styles. Sure we'd all like everyone to get along. I am sure that as soon as war and poverty are eradicated from the real world your proposal will make sense for use in PlaneShift.

I am glad you are enjoying the game, and hope you'll continue to.

[Akkaido Kivikar]

I like it how it is, allows for fair and fun RP. Use a /shout if you want to stop me, we can RP a little, someone can die, if that's how the situation ends up, and the other can run away rubbing whatever wounds of conflict he has.

[empty_aka]

Mh i see the "war" is over and the griefers won, that's bad but reasonable. I thought you developers are able in corporation with GMs and players to achieve a victory here. That's too bad. 

[Rigwyn]

I thought you developers are able in corporation with GMs and players to achieve a victory here. That's too bad. 

Huh ? 

Stick around a while and play the game for a few months and you'll get a better feel for what the game is about. If you want to get a well rounded feel for how the game is played you might want to consider joining a role playing guild, or meeting some role players in game. Good places to find role players are the Stonehead in Gugrontid, The Red Crystal Den in Hydlaa, Kada El's ( very hit or miss.. a mix of good rp and terrible rp ), Ojaveda ( when Kore Irka Clan plays ).

Also look at this link .. make post an entry describing your character(s) 
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=32766.0





 

[Xordan]

The 'Lawless trade route' and 'Secured trade route' idea has been discussed in the past (I for one am in favour).
The outcome was that too many people (developers included) dislike (ideologically in some cases) the idea of free PvP for it to become a priority to do (make the different routes etc).
However it was never ruled out entirely. Perhaps it will happen some day on ezpcusa, but probably not on laanx unless it's a great success.

[Nochulas]

I have to agree with empty_aka here. Having lawless areas would be great. Honestly, never having to fear another player takes away something of the realism. Lawless areas could be implemented en route between places, but there could but there could be longer, more roundabout ways to get where you're going if you really want to avoid a dangerous area. That way, those who don't want to subject themselves to danger can still get where they're going, and those who want to have PvP can. I think it could work out beautifully.

[bilbous]

If you want open pvp just set your characters to auto-accept challenges, announce in the gossip channel where you are going and that you are looking for trouble and trouble is likely to find you. It would be kind of nice if auto accept was a bit different in that two people with it set would not have to /challenge to have a fight and generally an attack on another character triggered the challenge for thepeople who do not auto accept. Issuing a challenge is a bit of a pain. Of course I auto-refuse. In this case the only time challenge spam rules would be triggered is for those with always ask enabled.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

My impression would be that the shortest route between two trade locations is most likely to be patrolled and therefore less dangerous.

Perhaps one day we can provide some sort of award for playing with auto accept on for fighting to encourage its use. I do like the realism of everyone being vulnerable to attacks, but I fear the maturity level of players, coupled with the anonymity of the internet makes this impossible to do without a lot of coding to counteract the basic tendency to exploit mechanics and grief other players for the sake of it.

I've seen what "pvp-rp" servers play like, and it is NOT rp at all. Rp only happens within "safe-zones" in this type of set up, and that is with vastly superior AI than what ps will be able to muster any time soon. Go to the Age of Conan forums and see how this plays out for hundreds of pages.