PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: Abemore on July 22, 2003, 03:47:47 am
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Summary
This is an idea that should allow players all the joy\'s of PK\'ing with none of the grief cause by actual PK\'ing.
Philosophy
Let me start by saying, the main characters in a movie or book or any story never die. They can be badly beaten, but because they are the main characters, they cannot be killed. In a MMORPG every player is a main character. So every player must survive till the end of the story.
Proposal
That being said, I propose that no player character be killed ever. Wait, it\'s not as crazy as it sounds. It can work. Here\'s how...
- In place of death would be being beaten to a bloody pulp. There would be no loss of items, or instant respawn. You would just lay on the ground bleeding.
- At this point you are as good as dead. Herbs and potions will do you no good as they can only heal minor wounds.
- If you have mage friends, a powerful circle magic (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=4679&boardid=11#15) spell can be used to \"revive\" you. If not, you must crawl or be carried by a friend back to a town where you can be healed.
- In this state, you must speak slowly and cannot shout. You are nearly dead, so you must act like it. This can serve as a fitting punishment for verbally abusive players.
- Your body cannot be looted because you are still alive and can still grab the arm of a thief (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3935&boardid=21&page=1#24).
- This would leave zero incentive for random PK\'ing.
Possible Modifications
Maybe players can run out of blood after a certain amount of lying on the ground bleeding. This would allow the death quest I seem to remember reading about.
(Semi-)Final Thoughts
It is still inconvenient to be beaten to a bloody pulp.
Grief still exists when more powerful players lay the unprovoked smackdown on less powerful players.
Hmm... so... it is the randomness of the attack that is the problem.... yet there is no way to determine whether an attack is random or provoked...
.........................eurika! I\'ve got it! Playground rules!
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NOTE: Playground Rules are flawed like every other system. Please disregard.
Playground Rules
The same rules used on the playground of your grade school.
- We start with no open/random attacking. You must first establish yourself as the aggressor before you can attack another player.
- You do this by \"pushing\" them :)
- After you push them, you become the aggressor and can be attacked by anyone for a short time.
- You must also wait a short time before you can follow up that push with an actual attack.
- The one you pushed must then choose to stay and fight or run.
- Anytime you push or attack someone you become an aggressor for a short time.
- Aggressors can be attacked by anyone. (That means things can get messy real fast in a gang scenario.)
Whew... let me know if anyone sees problems with any of this. It so far looks pretty solid to me.
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So when your lieing there will your health regenerate very slowly at least? because if you dont have potions or anyone with you it might take a while till someone comes around
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no, your health does not regenerate. you are as good as dead at this point
if no one comes to help, you must crawl back to town on your own.
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lol i actually like that idea good job i think they should actually make it like that even though it would take hours to get to a city but you will probly come across someone while crawling back.
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your pushing concept is not too far different from dueling with the exception that once you do it your vulnerable from anyone.
just a few questions though. would both be vulnerable or only the aggressor?
if you pushed me and I elected to fight would I be vulnerable to othe attackers or just you?
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i think he meens the first person that starts the fight wich is the first person that pushes.
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do you mean the death quest i made or something?
edit: http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3563&boardid=13 (http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=3563&boardid=13) the one in that post?
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zaphar, if you elect to fight the aggressor that pushed you, you too would become an aggressor and be vulnerable to other attackers for a short time. Anyone who attacks becomes an aggressor. Which means it might be smart to not fight sometimes.
druke, no. a death quest was mentioned long ago. It had something to do with completing a quest after you die, and meeting a god of some kind at the end where you choose to be returned to the spot you died, or to the nearest temple.
edit:
zaphar, the more I think about it, the more I think you\'re right. The Playground Rules are very much like dueling. As I think further... what\'s to stop a wannabe PK\'er from pushing someone then chasing them down and killing them? Looks like nothing. So I\'m throwing out the Playground Rules. They are flawed like every other system. Best just stick with PvP dueling.
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well, it\'s ok system, but verbal abuse can happen in city as well, well actually it have more chance of happenning in city because theres more people running around cities. so whats the solution there?
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i dont know the solution.
it\'s a paradox.
To give ppl the power to silence the verbally abusive is to give them the power to PK anyone.
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Dueling is an extremely elegant solution to PK\'ing.
I really don\'t see why there is so much resistance to the idea. I do like the \"Playground Rules idea for dueling\" instead of calling it duel request its called a push. For instance your in a bar minding your own business. A Diabolo comes in looks at you and says \"your in my seat\". You say \"I didn\'t see no sign\" the verbal play goes back and forth for a while till the Diabolo pushes you. He hits the \"duel button\" so a duel request is sent out. Everyone in the bar sees the words has pushed . Suddenly the bar gets quiet. Everyone looks to see what you will do. Will you back down or will you rise to the challenge.
Basically this gives a rep hit for cowards who avoid PK at all cost no matter what and also a rep hit for bullies who consistently attempt PK\'s on weaker opponents. Everyone knows when a duel/Push/shove is started. So everyone knows who is the coward/bully/hero for defending his honor.
this removes the unreality of a duel request that only the two see and gives opportunity for role play inside of the PK Duelling system.
I have played in open PK games before and I don\'t care how good anyone elses experiences have been. All it takes is that first time when a Character 10 levels over you attacks and kills you hunts you down again and does it all over again and again and again until you log off in disgust because you obviously aren\'t going to get to play. That is the part you want to avoid and that is the part that SOMEONE out there will do if given even the slightest chance in an open PK system.
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Originally posted by zaphar
this removes the unreality of a duel request that only the two see and gives opportunity for role play inside of the PK Duelling system.
This sounds like a great feature. I shall officially request it for us.
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yeah, I like it as well. But your example is harsh, what if you are a really weak beginner and the person who pushed you is a strong guy, and you know that you are weak, but it doesn\'t mean you are a coward, so you refuse to fight, but in the eyes of the public and eventually your own eyes you will be coward. Ahh, maybe this is irrelevant and the minute this guy asks you, you just get up and move to another seat. :)
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ahhh but in the case of weaker vs stronger the stronger will be seen as a bully rather than the weaker as a coward.
Plus the weaker guy can bring a friend of greater strength to exact revenge for his getting pushed.
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can you only be beaten to a bloody pulp by another player? Or can monsters not kill you either? if so after being beten in a fight by a monster i dont think the monster is gonna let you gust crawl away, and if it does, another monster would probaly find you and eat your head. And i dont think youcolud recover from that.
i dont ike the idea of liying in a bed for hours waiting to recover.
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I think mobs should kill you only if it is logical that they do so. Perhaps some would kill you only if you continued to move. Others may be looking for a meal. Maybe one mob is an herbivore and only wants you to stop attacking it before it moves on.
My original post was primarily dealing with PK/PvP hence the title.
And I agree lying in bed for hours waiting to recover is a terrible idea.
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A nice pk limiter is the \"take it the out side\", in the cities pk is blocked, but if you go out, you can kill teh bastard that irritating you every time. \"Let\'s take it out side\" :))
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The post is about playground rule based PvP system, and an alternate form of death. If you are sugesting that all forms of PvP are eliminated in town I would agree. Dueling or pushing should only be allowed outside of town. It messes up the bar fight senerio, but Bars could be made like arena type zones.
Outside of town still has to have some sort of order. Otherwise, pkers will just sit outside of town and mug you as you walk out.
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who ever has played runescape knows, there is a place called the wilderness where you can go to pk. there are different levels at level 1, you can attack people 1 level under you, but keep in mind that means a person one level over you may attack you, same for level 2, 3, and all the way up.
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wut\'d i say, it came up as \"the-game-that-shall-not-be-named\"?
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I like the idea that anyone can join a fight and whoever ihas joined the fight can be attacked. I would assume there would be a way to choose who\'s side of the brawl you were on.
I feel that a fight should happen wherever a fight is going to happen.
I just think it would be great if (back to the bar room senerio) a 10th level Dabolo walks in and shoves a first level Lemur. The Lemur accepts because he know he has his 20th level Kran friend sitting on the other side of the Dabolo.
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Originally posted by Jerslayer
wut\'d i say, it came up as \"the-game-that-shall-not-be-named\"?
I know what game you\'re talking about, it\'s a rather big game and becomes a rival to the smaller ones. So there is a filter that changes it to that to prevent unwanted advertising.
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i gotta say that sounds like a good idea. pkers can just go attack agressors then and its the aggressors own fault if he gets pked.
i like it :D good job. i thort the only solution would be to alow full pking but that sounds great. good job m8! with that u could could have everything pk has except for the moaning from ppl for getting pked:D
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The problem with the \"duelling\" solution is that it kills the realism. Every solution that implies a new out-of-the-game universe convention does that.
I think that the answer is the implementation of a law codex, very strict in punishing agressors, thieving, killing and injuring. Well, caught agressors. That would encourage the development of highly skilled thieves/assasins, for they could do mischief (maybe quests that imply that) with lesser risks, but it would also diminish the random pk\'s and lootings.
Further, adding to that the \"being beaten to a pulp\" idea I think the system should work. Players would become more aware of the risks their actions involve, since the wounded one they left behind will eventually get into a populated area and report them to the authorities. This could lead to community bans, communitary fees, you could have a bounty on your head, etcaetera. Only the best assasins might get away...
The Codex might also contain rules for duells, as result of direct offence or social challenge, duells that would take place in certain areas and with witnesses on both sides. If the challenged player doesn\'t want to fight he/she would be forced to pay a ransom or give up his claim on the object of the duel.
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One game I find interesting... bare with me its a single player rpg called \"Gothic II\".
In the game you can pick fights or be picked on... who ever attacks first in a \'secure area\' where laws are enforced is considered to have broken the law \"assault\" they will refuse to deal with you at all (though you can cast a forget spell on them). They will tell the local authorities in a days time (I think), meaning you have to pay a fine or could be attacked/arrested by guards (don\'t draw your sword... just follow them to prison/judge).
Murder is treated differently, killing a murderer is acceptable. If you escape then the guards will attempt to kill you unless you can get to the judge and pay the fine (yes a sum of money clears your name, the guards are strong enough for most of the game and some are \'impossible to kill\' remember its a single player so murder is fine heavily but for the hero\'s weath its not much).
Of course in a dark alley nobody would see you hurt/rob/kill anyone but the person you attack so you either finish them(kill)/ they are too scared to attack or you cast \'obilivion\' <- the forget spell.
I\'m pretty sure similar ideas can be liberated and used.
If someone attacks you... run away and they look like a bully or.. defend yourself knowing that if you die everyone can attack him back or at least his name is mud. Perhaps if you were attack recently you could report it yourself to a guard.
As for people insulting you, usually the proof is in the fact they won\'t attack you... if you could \"knock out there lights\" (assault) without a serious intent (you don\'t rob them or kill them). You may have a lessor charge that you have to pay, that you will just have to wear the costs. Perhaps repeat offenses are treated differently, even the find inceases 1.5 times the last amount or something.
No doubt in any system people will try to exploit the system, hopefully the community can come up with a simple and elegant system that makes this impossible.
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Originally posted by Jerslayer
who ever has played runescape knows, there is a place called the wilderness where you can go to pk. there are different levels at level 1, you can attack people 1 level under you, but keep in mind that means a person one level over you may attack you, same for level 2, 3, and all the way up.
Yep and ne1 who has played RS also knows that the PvP system is so badly flawed that any game that tried to mimic it would be digging it\'s own grave. It\'s more flawed than a PSX on drugs... As for Abemore\'s idea, I love it. The only thing is, what about MP? There\'s bound to be some spells to heal tremendous amounts of MP...
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I believe that duels and barfights should be allowed. this said i believe that there is a time and place for a duel, but sometimes that just leads to the big guys picking on little guys. This said I believe that something like a barfight should be allowed. This does not mean that the people getting picked on even have to fight, but that someone else, probably bigger and stronger, come in and intervene for the little guy. this would add a new and inventive way to role play as the defender of the little guy. This is just an opinion and any futher voices would be welcome since the more heads put to the same subject create a faster solution.
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Let me know if im mistaken, but its seems that you wont officialy have a \"level\", so when the big tough Kran picks on the cat girl, she might whip out the old glyphs and have him \"crawling\" to the hospital in one swing.