Author Topic: *looks from the liberals to the conservatives*  (Read 570 times)

-=Skyy=-

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*looks from the liberals to the conservatives*
« on: July 04, 2004, 05:09:36 pm »
ok, so I\'ve been reading and posting on the PVP threads for like 2 hours now, and you know what it boils down to...Pro-PKers want to be able to do what they want to do, to have the freeedom to do in fantasy waht they can\'t walk out thier own front door and do.
and he Anti-Pkers all seem like people taht are still nursing wounds over being griefed somewhere or Pked during a quest and didn\'t get to finish it in time or what have you.. in short yes for realism PK needs ot be allowed, but why not limit it to apropriate classes Alignments a lawful good paladin isn\'t gong to Pk a chaotic good ranger however he would likley try to PK a chaotic Evil paladin...

-=skyy=-
Just my two cents.

Monketh

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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2004, 05:34:56 pm »
Because alignments are player-made, and there are no classes.
The key to manipulative bargaining is to ask for something twice as big as what you want, then smile and nod when you are talked down to your original wish. You are still young, my apprentice, and have much to learn in the ways of the force. -UtM

rifft

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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2004, 07:13:00 pm »
Because in a lot of cases, *realism* that\'s provided with Pking and player thieving is unrealistic. Think about it, why don\'t you go out and stab that guy you really hate, that picked on you in highschool. Because it\'s illegal, and you would are gauranteed to get into some kind of sever trouble. The same goes for pickpocketing, shop lifting, etc. The *criminal* or *evil* element of any given society is fairly small. In places where serious law enforcement exist. In most MMOs it doesn\'t. Therefore stealing some n00bs equip is really easly low risk behaivior. You are not going to get into trouble. So you say, why not have a player run police force? Well, because that requires an exterme amount of dedication from your players so you would have mob rule. Which in most cases is very unfriendly, and does not encourage a good sense of community.

Why don\'t we have NPC\'s do the guard duty, because it\'s not really feasable. It just requires to much extra work to do law enforcement of some custom set of laws, for any given location and the overhead is usually not worth it. So things like not being able to PK in a city is usually a good rule and a good approximation of realism. In the wilderness some distance away from civilization PKing would be allowed without warning. Though even that would anger some people since they spend all this time (sometimes years) gathering equipment and item, when some powergamer just walks by, kills them, sells their equip for pennies and wanders happily off to his next adveture.

The other problem is, in MMOs there are simply to many *extraordinary* characters, (ie high level chars), which means what is difficult for the average joe, is easy for them. So again, a world like that becomes unfriendly towards new players. And really that\'s why PKing comes down to. It isn\'t greifer and anti-PKers, it\'s how many new player do you have, and how easy is it for them to have fun. Because in theory, all other players of roughly equal level can defend themselves. That\'s why in reallity we don\'t have constant death and theivery everywhere.  Because a lot of the time the other person doesn\'t have a clear advantage.

In MMO\'s we simply don\'t have that kind of distribution, and we don\'t usually have a set of reprocutions for doing something that\'s generally frowned upon. So in most cases it\'s a really good idea to limit PKing, or simply eliminate it, since most of the time it simply detracts from gameplay, rp, and character developement.
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zabeal

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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2004, 02:32:27 am »
Quote
Originally posted by rifft
Because in a lot of cases, *realism* that\'s provided with Pking and player thieving is unrealistic. Think about it, why don\'t you go out and stab that guy you really hate, that picked on you in highschool. Because it\'s illegal, and you would are gauranteed to get into some kind of sever trouble. The same goes for pickpocketing, shop lifting, etc. The *criminal* or *evil* element of any given society is fairly small. In places where serious law enforcement exist. In most MMOs it doesn\'t. Therefore stealing some n00bs equip is really easly low risk behaivior. You are not going to get into trouble. So you say, why not have a player run police force? Well, because that requires an exterme amount of dedication from your players so you would have mob rule. Which in most cases is very unfriendly, and does not encourage a good sense of community.

I have an anecdote to back this up: the red guard in towers of jardi. They are the policw force, mostly npcs, but all the decisons are made by players. And they are awful. When someone does a crime, it\'s almsot imposible to investigate who really did it, yet they are requird to find a perp, so they often pin it on which ever player they find skulking around. Refuse to answer a question? Even if the player doesn\'t realize you are a guard and you demanded something no one would normaly say? Bam, 2 week prison term.
True, if they had the powers of GMs they might be able to find out more... but would you trust every player controlling a guard to that power? It\'s a really tricky situation that I haven\'t seen any game work out.

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