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1
Complaint Department / Re: Commmunity involvement
« on: September 25, 2014, 09:35:50 am »
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good idea who is willing to do it 24/7? We're looking for one since quite some time

Well, the point I'm trying to make is that if you have the right tools, nobody needs to be on 24/7 anymore.

With the right tools:
  • Tasks can be assigned to members and queued so new members always have something to do.
  • Reminders and other messages can be (auto-)sent for specific tasks when people aren't responding anymore.
  • People can receive, store and respond to alerts and messages on their smartphone, reducing the total amount of effort needed to communicate with the team to 'getting your phone out and swiping to the left'.
  • The recruitment leader would get an alert at the precise moment a new member arrives and he can offer help right away.
  • The system remembers all the recruits that pass by. If we combine this log with their thoughtprocess and feelings of certain aspects of development, we can improve those aspects.

This way we act in a way to reasonably counter (respectively):
  • People that leave because there was nothing to do / nobody responded
  • People that leave because they forgot about their project, just need a little motivation or are afraid to ask for help.
  • People that leave because they feel communication via PC only is tedious.
  • People that leave because they feel lost and awkward because they don't know who they're supposed to talk to.
  • People that leave because of feelings, thought or motivations that I haven't mentioned yet.

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numbers are not going to approve a task, people do. It's always been like that in almost any project especially those involving art and graphic.

I believe you misunderstood me (I don't understand otherwise) but with 'data' I meant asking recruits (via a survey of sorts) how they feel about the project, tasks, team etc.

A question could be: "When I entered the chatroom I felt welcome" - Highly Agree - Agree - Neutral - Disagree - Highly Disagree.

If the responses are:
1x HA
2x A
3x N
5x D
2x HD

Then you're apparently doing something wrong. That's what I mean with numbers, not opinions.

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No, the majority of the open projects out there, including opensurce projects are a "dictatorship of workers": who work on a project has the final say. Would be pretty odd if the first one passing by could "force" someone to work (not paid) on what he wants. Aside that I always listen to new ideas, and if they're good enough, technically possible and in line with the project goals I implement them.

I don't understand the first part, but the second part (Aside that I [...] implement them.) is great! However, I still feel we should move away from opinion (Who decides what's good enough?) towards a data driven implementation process. If 5+ people tell you that the communication between teams is bad (and somebody wrote that down), then you simply can't deny that somewhere there's something going wrong. It might be still your opinion that you're doing the best there is, but that isn't actually relevant anymore

This is what I mean with listening to your workers. If you listen to 5+ separate workers and they tell you that communication between teams is bad, and you respectfully tell them that you feel that communication is OK because you have all these examples of when it went well... Well, that's not actually listening and it causes recruits to simply walk away...

Quote
Ok so you're basically saying we should pile up stuff that doesn't meet the project requirements? Maybe you don't know some stuff are easier to re-start from scratch than spending tons of hours fixing something buggy. It takes more time.
Also have you ever trained someone? Maybe you didn't or you should know training is time expensive, difficult and when you finally did it none can guarantee the trainee doesn't leave right away. I do it nevertheless but it should be noted that is not a trivial task.

With this point I purely meant 3D-models, textures etc. You're correct on coding, sorry I wasn't clear.

What I meant was that dev-members should handle contributions in a different way. Rather than criticism (no matter how constructive!!) and asking for (immediate) rework, it's better to accept the image, store it somewhere and ask the original artist (or a new artist) a week later to rework the image / model because you found something wrong with it. This is easily achieved by creating alerts of sort that remind you automatically after a week, so you can bring it up again with the original artist.

That way you change a negative and boring experience (rework rework rework) to a positive, gratifying experience. The new member is happy because he's done something for the team/game he loves and thus willing to repeat that process again. Rework isn't even that bad anymore because the artist had time (it's easier for the artist to spot the flaws) and other work (the work isn't as boring anymore) in between. Eventually you get to the same spot (great work) but via a more effective (albeit longer) route.

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If someone want to join I've never said no, but still the learning curve is steep.
Agreed. It's still stated a bit harsh on the PS website though (for example: Several years of tabletop Roleplaying. That's a small pond to fish in!) and the learning curve is indeed steep. But I really feel that a 'good experience' (with the recruitment management process I've described above, or something similar) softens that curve immensely and gives motivation for a recruit to return when he/she hits a rough spot in the production process or in real-life.

Quote
Internal motivation is what we're looking for. People that haven't got any reason to do this yet means they have no love for the project, so what can we offer them? Money? Fame? No sorry, we don't have any of both, if that's what they're looking for I suggest they look somewhere else because with PS they would lose their time.

Internal motivation is why people join. External motivation is why they stay. A fun team, clear communication between members, up-to-date information in the Dev-libraries, diverse tasks etc. Parallels can be drawn with Herzberg's Motivators and Hygiene factorsSource.

* Motivators(Internal Motivation) are things such as achievement and responsibility ("I want to join because I want to add to the game that I love!") and cause the person to feel good (Satisfaction)
* Hygiene(External Motivation) factors are things such as policies and working conditions. They do not cause good feelings, but they prevent bad feelings (Dissatisfaction) from happening.

So no money and fame, but a well-oiled, communicative team that is a pleasure to work with and a nice system that respects new visions and idea's.  In fact, every day in real life, people take (large) cuts in salary to work in a new company ONLY because of the positive culture and attitude the new company or his/her new team has towards their ideas. Isn't that an interesting thought?

2
Complaint Department / Re: Commmunity involvement
« on: September 23, 2014, 06:21:17 am »
I gave settings a stab and it really wasn't that bad.

IRC didn't always work for me time-wise, so I used forum messages as needed to bridge the gaps.

Working on a team project like this is about helping the project to achieve it's goals. If you are more interested in achieving your own personal goals at the expense of the project, then that's not really useful to the team or project. If there is some overlap so that helping the team with its goals also helps you with your personal goals, then it's mutually beneficial and everyone wins. An example of this would be getting some practice with writing, art or development in return for offering your work.

As for using stuff from other sites, or not meeting the expected quality, that's just part of meeting the project's requirements. Leaning to produce quality work that meets expectations is important whether its for a leisure project like this or for your career.

One of the nice things about the PS team is that you are not pressured for work as you would be in the workplace. Things seem to move at a fairly slow pace, which works well for folks like myself who are busy in real life and have a hard time finding continuous time to work on side projects.

I've heard a lot of bitching about people just *handing over* their precious work for... for FREE. That's free as in, "I'm not getting the million dollars that my precious ancient Nolthrir poem or 3d stick with leaf and berry would land me elsewhere." It's not like we're sawing off arms and legs... and fingers.. and giving them away for FREE.

You contribute stuff for several reasons, such as:

* To help improve the game for yourself and everyone else.
* To enjoy being able to see your work in the game and others enjoying it.
* To give back. We've all played the game on Talad's dime. Why not give something back?
* To get practice at doing what we do.

Well, I understand and I've been told, many times, the exact arguments you mention.

Let me first mention my feelings about your post. Sorry if I offend or anything. I have a harsh writing style, I know.

- IRC and Forum messages are both not as good as the plethora of project management methods available. Forum threads become bloated fast, are relatively time-consuming to manage and offer no effective way of uploading large amounts of objects, previews, images, music etc.

IRC is faster, but lacks the ability to send and receive messages when a person isn't online, it doesn't have a any project management functions (not even a simple to-do list easily accessible for the managers), and everything is said temporarily before it fades into the logs. Finally it also lacks an easy way to upload large amounts of objects, previews, images or even large amounts of text. It's simply the plainest thing out there.

- The tradeoff of 'Receiving experience' in return for 'Doing work for the PS team' argument is not realistic. There are a million other ways somebody can get experience without the constrictive (setting-)rules and regulations that apply to anything you submit. Anybody that wants to become good in writing or drawing will eventually cut out the PS middle-man so they can freely express themselves.

- Expecting quality is reasonable, but the way how low quality objects/textures are dismissed until considered good enough kills motivation (Rework after rework is a killer of motivation) Why not accept the object/texture outright and place the object/texture in a public place where it can be improved by others at another time? Then you won't have to return to the same boring subject ten times and lose all your motivation to do so along the way.

- A low-pressure project such as this is great for those who are working hard and have little time... But does this mean the development process is designed to attract and retain people that have little time to spend on PS? And thus prefer a low-pressure project? Isn't this a critical oversight?

And why can't a project be low-pressure whilst actually progressing? By working together, using management tools and using all the available (wo-)manpower, in all it's forms, in all it's qualities, whenever it becomes available?

- Finally, the motivational factors you've mentioned. The reasons why people help:

* To help improve the game for yourself and everyone else.
* To enjoy being able to see your work in the game and others enjoying it.
* To give back. We've all played the game on Talad's dime. Why not give something back?
* To get practice at doing what we do.

These are all internal motivational factors. These all rely on the mentality that the person has undying love for the project and the belief that the project HAS to work. This is not something you can ask from people that haven't got any reason to do this yet.

The first two factors, improving the game and the ability to see(enjoy, experience) what you've done are basically the same. They rely on the notion that you have love for PS and actually care that they are used/placed in-game. However, this excludes the majority of recruits: Unconvinced people that are repelled by the slow and tedious process of actually getting your stuff in the game. The people that remain already have much love for the game. But how can you grow a culture that trains people to have an undying love for PS when the condition to be accepted in that culture is to have an undying love for PS?

The third factor... well... Realistically, nobody who joins today, yesterday or last month will really care whether they give anything back to Talad. They do not know the guy, they do not know how the system operates. Why should they care? Because they are inherently 'good' people?

And the fourth... What if you're already really, really good at what you do? Do you still want the experience for experience's sake?

Personally, I believe the greatest problem is the culture surrounding the development team. On the one hand they desperately ask the community to help, whilst on the other refuse to change a culture which is rigged toward attracting people, with little to no experience in their respective fields, have little time to spend and already have to be somewhat fanatical about the game.

It's not a culture of innovation, team-work, permanent self-improvement and out-of-the-box thinking. It's a culture of traditional top-down management and 'this-is-how-it's-done'-isms.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now. I've said all the above and again, it will probably sound harsher than if I would say it. I'll move on to the part where you can rip me to shreds based on my suggestions.

What do I believe needs to be changed
* There needs to be one volunteer that is dedicated to welcoming new recruits and sending them off to their respective leaders. They will seek out every complaint, thought, idea or feeling the recruit has. They will also act as a guardian and advocate for the recruits idea's, so that the recruit will feel welcomed, valued and understood.

* IRC, Forum. Keep them, but have a third management tool method available, capable of sending, accepting, completing and storing tasks and messages whether you are online or not. Preferably with a method of uploading several types of data. This can then be used to manage the new recruits instead of Email or IRC. I do not mean the library, the wiki or the Nexus. I mean a dedicated team and project management tool. This will also keep the workload for the recruitment volunteer at a minimum.

* All the information gathered by the Recruitment-volunteer in the management-tool will be quantified, stored and made into reports. This is to understand the motivation of recruits and so that the system can be adjusted accordingly and what could be improved in the team, backed by numbers rather than opinions.

* The notion 'Planeshift is not a democracy' should be killed right here, right now. Whilst I understand that PS is managed as a company, even managers of Fortune-500 companies (actually, especially those) actually listen to their employees. 'Planeshift is not a democracy' kills any innovation, any free thought that any recruit (or member) might bring into the development. It kills progress, it kills motivation and results in the loss of new recruits.

* The notion that people should be thankful to receive experience in exchange for working for this project should be removed from our collective memory. Instead, people should be thankful to be working in such a supportive collective that values the person work (in a way) regardless of its quality. This means accepting almost any work into a central database. If the quality is bad, the offending items will be shelved for improvement. If it is truly horrible, at least the recruit had his chance. But most importantly, the recruit will be kept exactly as busy with new things as he/she wants to be at the quality he/she can provide.

This way.
1. The recruit is less likely to leave the team on his/her own because of the (lack of) feedback he/she receives.
2. You can quickly produce as much content as possible in the few days that a volunteer has the highest amount of motivation, before the person recedes back into their normal life.
3. Give the next artist the choice: To rework or create from scratch, possibly saving them minutes to hours of work.

* In combination with the above, adjust any requirement to join the team to zero. Anybody (18+) should be capable of joining. It is simply not our place to demand anything from the volunteers at the start and it deters people who otherwise could become constructive members. Instead, the team should be a place where new recruits (some without skills) are trained and formed into advocates of the game.

New recruits should get the opportunity to first grow the love for a team that has their back, then the work they need to complete and only finally, the entire Planeshift project.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not saying this is the end-all, be-all. I'm not saying this is the golden key. I'm saying that clinging on to the notion that what we currently have is 'working' is detrimental to the entire project. I'm saying a system isn't and should never be 'working' because only when you admit its broken in some way, you can improve it.

But those are my ideas on the matter. Who would be the Recruitment-volunteer to set all this in motion? I don't know. It could be me, but only if I get a type of guarantee that people will at least have some willingness to test-drive my ideas.

Extra reading:
http://www.amanet.org/training/articles/The-Four-Factors-of-Motivation.aspx

3
Complaint Department / Re: Commmunity involvement
« on: September 22, 2014, 04:34:20 pm »
I have a couple of questions for people.
1: Are people interested in contributing to either a: a project lead by me or b: the game in general?
2: Do people have ideas to increase/encourage community involvement in game development?

I do feel most in this community are capable of contributing.


I have a couple of questions for people.
1: Are people interested in contributing to either a: a project lead by me or b: the game in general?
2: Do people have ideas to increase/encourage community involvement in game development?

I do feel most in this community are capable of contributing.

As an ex-prospect, who tried but lost motivation after a month and a half, I can provide some context to the how and why people will not contribute. Just one opinion among many, don't take it too hard.

How to Enter the Dev-team.
People join the dev-team all the time. In my short stay I've seen plenty of folk trying to join the team. It's rather easy to join, which is great: Just sign up the google docs document and present yourself in the IRC-chat, which is operated by people who are online 24/7. These people welcome you, point you to your manager. He interviews you and he gives you a task. Depending in the department, you get swift access to certain parts of a dedicated dev-wiki. Here you can look at models, stories, all the quests, textures and every in-game book you can think of.

Once you've completed your first task, you gain the respect of your fellow developers who will then quickly give you a new assignment and before long you can call yourself a real planeshift dev...

Right? That would be the optimal way of handling recruits but sadly this cannot be the case due to time and energy constraints. Everybody's a volunteer after all. Let me paint my experience

You sign up for the crew. You wait a week before you get answer. In the mean while you join #planeshift-prospects and find that it is empty, unless you live in certain parts of the world. After rejoining for several days (since most people do not keep their laptop/pc on for 24/7 to keep a constant connection) you finally meet one of the devs.

After explaining yourself he tells you he needs to find something called a ABC-license which you have to sign in order to join. This is a basic contract which in turn hands over all your rights of your created content. Quite reasonable but some may find it hard to hand over their babies unconditionally. With some luck you'll get the contract after a week of waiting. When you hand it in another week for a response.

Now you're in. The problem is that the person that welcomed you isn't the department leader of your department. So you can chat all you'd like but he can't give you an assignment. This is because of the fragmented nature of the development team, which serves as a sort of Titanic; You could poke a hole somewhere, but nobody will have access to 100% of the content at any time.

Finally, after finding the correct person in the chat (or sending several emails as I have) you get a response and a task. This is often a very simple, orientational task so you will grasp the concept. You complete the task fairly quickly but got no response for a while. Then I turned to one of the devs and asked if I could help. He said he could use some help but I would have to go by my manager to request this transfer. Once again I have to note that the only way to talk to my manager was to find him online, on IRC at exactly the same time as I was online.

So I believe we took a shortcut and I just started on working for the project (note that we're about a month into the process now). I had to write a few quests in the quest syntax. But just writing isn't good enough, you have to make every last little part fit in the ever expanding world of planeshift. Unless your character was 100% thought out, it would't be accepted by the people responsible.

I didn't quit officially, but drifted away as my attention was simply drawn to other places. I didn't feel like misplacing my unending enthusiasm and precious time in a project that didn't respond in kind. I lost motivation and here I am telling my story.

Communication.
Note in my story that the communication was slow. It took weeks for e-mails to be answered and IRC is only effective for those that have servers that run 24/7. For most people it's simply a lucky draw, influenced by your timezone, whether you will find the person you require. IRC is lauded as the end-all-be-all of communication technology and this will probably never change in the minds of the dev-team.

Community-Feeling.
As an outsider, you are just that. Rather than a warm welcome you are treated as if you're probably going to drop out anyway. The only way to be accepted is to have an undying appreciation for the current way of how things are done, to have endless internal motivation to provide and help and have unlimited patience in order to receive your seniority.

The dev team has stated that they're not there to motivate. Personally, I don't think that's a thankful way to lead a team made of people that offer their time to your freely.

Leadership.
The team is fragmented and based on a "leader-team" model on purpose. I understand that. However, it meant that the quickest way I got anything done was to talk to fellow prospects and apprentice-developers as they were just as lost as I was.

On the chat I met a 3D-modeller, who left after two weeks because nobody in charge would be online whenever he was. When they finally were, his models were deemed 'okay' as he endured lots of 'constructive critisism' which demotivated him a lot. While it is easy to write what should be changed, it cost him time. In this case it was to make really nonsensical things, such as oven-doors I believe, or a miss-alignment of the textures. Both?

He left after creating just a single model, probably not even used in-game yet. I got the guy's Skype and what he told me was simple: Nobody was online, they want silly changes and when I've changed the model, nobody responds.

Rather than simply accepting the model, asking him to make a model of something else, returning after a month or so to ask for the oven's doors when it's no problem... The man had to endure critisism upon non-reaction. (Honestly, the quickest way to lose motivation?)

The Technology.
The wiki, the IRC. They are all useful in the creation of such a game. However, the wiki is rarely updated (I was adviced against using it intensely) and IRC is considered the best of the best. Regardless of the fact that there are many powerful and complex project management tools which could streamline many processes. But, even though we could easily use IRC alongside a management tool, IRC is the only means of communication deemed neccesary.

Assertiveness.
Any attempts to prospects to create something of their own is squashed quickly by the development team. You need to create what you're tasked to do or you won't do anything. Maps, books, textures even models that arn't asked for will be trown away, never to be used. Rather than using an organical growth model, where a person builds, under guidance, what he prefers and receives satisfaction from, growth is bottlenecked by the development leaders.

Quality
The developers want to make this the best game ever. Every quest, story, texture, model etc. handed in is scrutinied extensively and won't be used unless it's 'quality' work. This level of quality is purely based on the subjective opinion of the development leader. Regardless of the hours you put in the texture, if he wants a certain thing changed, you better work at it some more. If you want every user/volunteer to add content to the game, you simply cannot adhere to this demand in the current way.

Tradition
And finally, simultaniously the greatest threat and champion of the entire project. The notion that 'this is how it's done and this will never change'. New prospects are expected to enter the fold mindlessly, to follow suit and drone ahead untill a higher position can be attained through seniority.

New ideas are squashed without a second thought. Attempts to communicate to the developers that things should change are taken as an insult to the achievements the team has made. Attempts to persuade the owner to loosen the demands of quality or the strict adherance to 'self-made' content (i.e. Not allowing to use license-free websites that happens to have the texture readily available for commercial use for example) is seen as an attempt to weaken the game's stature as 'The greatest, most uniquest MMO ever!'.

But I won't be listened to. The underlying message will be ignored and my words will be dissected minutely for truths and half-truths or deleted. Below me will be angry posts by insulted people that defend the status quo. People that tell me to change the system myself if I have such great words! People that will reason we're doing the best we can since we're only volunteers! People that will reason with logic that what they're doing really works! That it's not us, but the people who must change!

I don't know why I wrote this as it doesn't matter. Nothing will be gained and nobody will suddenly open their mind or change their ways because of my words. Instead new words will be written and traditions defended regardless of the glaring truth; With the current ways of doing things, people are leaving faster than that they join.

4
General Discussion / Re: Two Little Ideas
« on: April 12, 2014, 05:10:03 pm »
More NPC's should do storage. All NPC's should do storage.

It just depends how much you have to pay per transaction/items stored and how safe your stuff is.

That'll be interesting, imo.

5
Development Deliberation / Re: Trello - For the development team.
« on: April 12, 2014, 04:34:38 am »
You may misunderstand the structure of the development team...

Quote from: Karyuu
PlaneShift is not a democracy.

What are you talking about?

Doesn't matter if Planeshift was a Plutonian timocracy, Trello is a project management tool. It's useful in any kind of structure.

Plus, it's scalable. I'm just going to use it for personal use because it rocks. and whenever anybody wants to join the board I've created: I invite them. Easy as pie.

6
Development Deliberation / Re: Trello - For the development team.
« on: April 11, 2014, 10:12:50 am »
May be completely unrelated, but can I use this to manage a restaurant's shifts, workflow, and to organize workloads?

Haha, probably :p Personally I don't know the exact management needs of a restaurant, but if you want to enable staff to fill in their own days/hours, sure!

Be sure to check out the "Power-up" which allows you to see the board in calender view, make sure the staff uses recognizable avatars and go wild with the color-schemes. They even have an app for the phone ;)

7
Development Deliberation / Trello - For the development team.
« on: April 11, 2014, 08:31:39 am »
Everybody of the dev team: Please watch this video and tell me what you think.

Project Task Management: Trello


It's a basic project management tool which *could* lead to a clearer insight for all the dev's involved. This way new volunteers can jump right in the fray without having to wait a long time or spend a long time learning the current objectives, tasks, developers via the existing management systems. (If any)

It also allows all the users to comment directly on the tasks, creating an environment where suggestions are encouraged, regardless of timezones. These suggestions are also saved, but more importantly: They can be found back, on the relevant subject, without searching of any kind.

(Yes, the basic version is free)

Example of Planeshift use:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1bv54hfsdxss86s/Screenshot%202014-04-11%2015.58.27.png


If interested, give me a head up. I'll send you an invite



And for those that have an interest in personal project management:

Letterfeed - To check for changes on Google Drive & Dropbox files
Hojoki Classic
Busyflow

Extra: A free Chrome drawing app (For creating visual Questslines, for example):
Draw.io

8
Could the effects on strength be limited? Last time I had to wait (sit) for 30 minutes because I couldn't walk the 5m to Harnquist.

9
General Discussion / Re: Looking for help: Artists
« on: April 09, 2014, 07:00:11 am »
Quote
A Work is submitted to Atomic Blue when at least one of the authors of the Work provides the Work, or a copy of the Work, in any medium (physical, electronic or otherwise tangible form), to any Member for use in connection with PlaneShift, or directly or indirectly makes such Work available on a website or repository owned, administered or managed by Atomic Blue.

Hydlaaplaza.com is not administered/managed by Atomic Blue?

10
General Discussion / Re: Looking for help: Artists
« on: April 09, 2014, 02:41:01 am »
Problem is that I lose the rights to anything I post on here. That's why I don't intend to continue with the RP-thread. But I can start anew on that site, looks pretty epic!


11
Wish list / The Conversation speed
« on: April 07, 2014, 11:33:50 am »
Whilst I enjoy reading the speeches/backgrounds of the characters, I do not enjoy the speed at which they say it; I understand that 'it's rp!!' But also in real life you have people that say 'Yeah yeah, get to the point'

So: A button you can press to skip the chatter, with possible (funny, insulted, angry, confused or even undisturbed) side-effects to the conversation.


And while we're on the subject of realism, if the letters in the speech bubble could appear in a serialized, typewriter fashion (with possible speed slider in options) then my wish would be more than fulfilled.

12
PlaneShift News and Rules / Re: 0.6.1 Release!
« on: April 07, 2014, 10:16:55 am »
Amazing work! Good job!  :D

13
Complaint Department / What books would you want written?
« on: April 05, 2014, 01:03:37 am »
Any specific subject you would like to be seen written?

In the next version we'll bring out a many books, but I'm interested in what the public would like to read, so I can start creating them right away!


(Just realized this is completly the wrong subsection!)

14
General Discussion / Re: [Development-Rules] Bulk (Stack) Crafting
« on: April 03, 2014, 02:53:06 am »
The scientific method. Nice!

15
General Discussion / Re: Looking for help: Artists
« on: April 03, 2014, 02:03:48 am »
Wonderfull! I love sketches! Just try your hand at anything and much gratitude will flow your way ;)

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