The Extinction of a Race

[Oronec]

No warnings. No heads-up.

I had to hear it from random players on the IRC and in the game - Then go about asking Talad himself if these rumors on the possible removal of the Diaboli race was true.

Hi,
we are going to remove the Diaboli as a playable race, we will post more information on it as soon as we are ready for it. The reason is mainly practical coming from the fact we are not going to develop the model for Diaboli anytime soon, we prefer to complete the others we have, and focus on less but higher quality models. Also the diaboli looks very similar to the Ynnwn race, so the change will not be a big one. We will provide more background in the next weeks depending on how fast we proceed with the removal.

Cheers,
  Luca.

First of all, I am not happy.

From my perspective as a Player, a role player, whether the Diaboli get their model sooner or later doesn't concern me. I don't mind role playing my Diaboli with a Ynnwn's model! Myself and many other Players have been doing so since the beginning!

If you want to focus on less but higher quality models - then why do you have two different races of dwarves? Why not remove one of those? The Diaboli are similar to the Ynnwn because the Ynnwn is their mixed offspring! How will there be a Ynnwn race without the Diaboli counterpart? If anything, the lore will only have to be changed more.

"so the change will not be a big one"

Those words erked me the most. Talad, I have not once seen you role play within your own community. I haven't been around that long, but in my time on Planeshift, I have only seen you in game OOCly. With that said, what makes you think that the removal of an entire race will leave no impact on the Players' role plays and characters? It will leave a HUGE impact for those players who built role plays up around the Diaboli race - Hell, they don't even have to be the one with the race at stake: merely role playing with them will have left an impression.

Yes, I unprofessionally went about posting this on the forums for all to see, and
Yes, I am not competent nor do I have the patience to learn how to model and animate,

But I am not going to keep silent when the race - the character - I put equal time and effort in to "creating" and "animating" is just going to up and be removed/changed. If this happens, my character will be gone. If this happens, I will be gone.

Talad, I apologize, but your decision is stupid.

[Knightspark9]

Talad, please, don't do this.

[Sen]

I can understand the reason, but I don't agree with it. As Oronec pointed out, the lack of a model doesn't necessarily limit the rp. A lack of the diaboli race would certainly do that, though.

Thus, my vote goes for keeping the race.


Sen

[MishkaL1138]

Congrats on your 100th post Vayl

Also, deleting a race is a big no no. It's like what Hitler did, even if the comparison is… undesirable. Well, what Hitler did was worse: I mean, they even had the models for the race!

[Soloyos]

Congrats on your 100th post Vayl

Also, deleting a race is a big no no. It's like what Hitler did, even if the comparison is… undesirable. Well, what Hitler did was worse: I mean, they even had the models for the race!

Making them sound like Neo Nazi's now Mishka  but i know what you mean

But im voting to keep the race even with or with out models, you cant just wipe them from out memories,

[MishkaL1138]

I mean, if we're going to delete races, we should delete Lemur too. And HammerWielder.

[Soloyos]

Im a Hammerwielder 

[Mask]

Eh. And how should that be done, setting and ingame-wise, in a plausible way that doesn't break anything? Leave it be.

[Suno_Regin]

Yes, why the hell would the coolest race ingame be deleted? This has to be a late April Fool's joke. I guarantee that such an incompetent decision, if it does come to pass, won't also result in the removal of everything Diaboli ingame. The Familiar rings for crying out loud, were inspired by Diaboli? Do you really think you can go into every quest, every player's mind, and erase what was? That and another race were involved in the creation of the Ynnwn, and you certainly can't say that Ynnwn "weirdness" (see: Fholen) can be removed from the game, either. They had that desire to prove themselves because they're a "new" race. Well, that's a BS excuse, but the rest still stands.

*edit*

Double posting in a forum that doesn't allow double posting.

Whoever removed the poll must realize that they're doing something players DON'T WANT. So let's remove it and make it so anyone who speaks against Diaboli removal is "the only one who feels that way".

Poll results that I can remember:

Should Diaboli be kept as a playable race despite the lack of a model for an extended period of time?

Yes: 14

No: 0

[Oronec]

So I'm not the only one who would like to see the Diaboli continue on as a race. On the other hand, the poll seems to have been taken down.

It's not just the old players that this untimely change would be effecting, it's also the newer ones. Just the other day I received a well thought-out IC letter from a new player - a Diaboli - wanting to know more about her race-of-choice's lore both ICly and OOCly to better fashion her character.

Now, what am I supposed to tell this new player: "There is no Diaboli lore, and you can't be a Diaboli"?

I truly find this unfair to myself and others.

[Koios]

I completely agree with Sen here and voted No to the deletion. The wording of Talad does suggest that they would still have Diaboli around, just not playable. So only NPCs?

Mask asks how that could be done. I'm not with Settings or anything, but I do have a few scenarios for the change.

1. Plague/disease - Some races in nature might be more susceptible to disease or have other congenital traits that makes them less likely to survive in the long run.
- A plague affecting the possible weaker immune system of the Diaboli, leaving just a few lucky survivors from true death (NPCs), isn't entirely unlikely.
- A genetic disease of the Diaboli is sparked by some event. Without a cure the race will suffer a slow and painful true death. The best minds of all the Realm come together and after much struggle finds a cure. A potion is made, but as a side-effect (or because it is the cure itself) they have to change races. A few (NPCs) decide to withstand their horrible faith in wait of a better option or because they would rather die painfully than live as another race.

2. Genocide - As the race description on the PS mainpage tells us, the Diaboli race are happy, bustling, malicious, quite unreliable and have no humility. In addition to a great understanding of the elemental spells, they also familiarize themselves with some of the creatures of the Stone Labyrinths, which sparks suspicion.
Here I see 2 not totally unlikely events:
 - One of the gods reveal him-/herself. While the other races either bow down or run and hide, the Diaboli won't do either and enrages the god with their ways. Some (NPCs) decides that in order to keep the race from extinction they either succombe or hide until the god has gone back to wherever.

- The Octarchy rules that the connection with the creatures of the Stone Labyrinth is too dangerous/treacherous or the mages have become too powerful with their knowledge (or both). As a reaction, they are banished to the Labyrinth and the known traitors face true death. Many Diabolis are enraged, a race war begins and they are fought down. The very few left (NPCs) are the ones that bought their protection and had high enough connections.

3. Migration - I can think of 2 scenarios for such a great migration:
 - The Diaboli mages, with their great knowlegde of elemental magic, gains resources to open a portal to their home universe. Even though they see Yliakum as a paradise, most of the Diaboli chooses to go back to rebuild their home. Some (NPCs) stay behind to ensure that the portal can be summoned/maintained if some want to cross in the future either way.

- In a Plane wide celebration of the god(s), the priests bless the cities and the feast. Given such acts of devotion the god(s) bless the entire Plane, giving it a holy status. The Diaboli, diligently avoiding holy places and objects, are forced to move to a lower Plane. The few left (NPCs), withstand the daily struggle because of their new-found faith, or other pressing conditions.

As I said in the beginning, these are just examples I thought of while I was writing this. But I hope it can perhaps aid to a way of doing this (if it has to be done) that will be ICly and make it a bit better for the community.

[Aiwendil]

Forget it Oronec...nothing you say here will change anything. It is already done in parts: http://planeshift.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/planeshift/trunk/?view=log

If you compile a client from source at the moment you can't create a diaboli anymore. So forget about it and be happy with being a Ynnwn..after all they look the same so they must be the same to play.

But seriously...haven't you learned anything in the past years? Complainig won't make a difference at all...and giving RP reasons to justify your complain even less.

[Oronec]

Forget it Oronec...nothing you say here will change anything.

But seriously...haven't you learned anything in the past years? Complainig won't make a difference at all...and giving RP reasons to justify your complain even less.

You're right.

I wasn't here to witness similar outcomes like this in the past, but I've heard pieces here and there.

This is the Complaint Department. I made my complaint with the hopes that it'd make a difference. If it does, then I'll be both shocked and outright happy. If it doesn't, then you're right and I'm forced to leave it at that.

[Aramara Meibi]

the reasoning behind the decision is not reasoning at all, it's insane troll logic.

keep the race. keep the race playable.

i think it's weird to single out just one race with missing models when there are many more races with missing models. if you have a motive for deleting the race, you better just be honest with us and tell us what it is. it's obvious this is not your reason since it is not logical, and we all know how logical you are. don't play us for a bunch of saps; it's offensive and makes you look bad. we all hold you in high regard for creating this wonderful world for us to play in, and now you wish to randomly take part of that world away with unreasonable justification. it's just... hurtful.  

[Knightspark9]

A lot of races have lack of models, it doesn't stop rp, simply because of the lack of models.