Author Topic: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?  (Read 4364 times)

dragnoor

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Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« on: September 05, 2008, 01:50:33 pm »
Roleplaying wikipedia definition:

"A role-playing game (RPG; often roleplaying game) is a game in which the participants assume the roles of fictional characters. Participants determine the actions of their characters based on their characterization, and the actions succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines. Within the rules, players can improvise freely; their choices shape the direction and outcome of the games."

Try explaining that to a new player?

The fact is as we all know things in PS have moved on. Yes of course there is still RP. Always will be. But trying to get a noob to RP is extremely difficult. Most noobs are young & impetuous. They cannot see past levelling up. Of course once your maxed then what?
What does a player do? They turn to RP. As its future is determined by imagination, not numbers.
                                                                                                                                            An observation in IRC chat was that most of those who level to the max do it to kill other players. Im this kind of player. Its a shortsighted "Style", of todays gaming.
                                                                                                                                            Another aspect I noticed was that through no fault of their own, kids nowadays dont read books. The basics like "Lord of the rings", & dozens of other titles are overlooked. They play on DS lites, & other hardware, & Pokemon or Sonic just dont fire the imagination like Books do. As a result our kids lack the social skills & bedrock fantasy imagination our generation take for granted.
I've mulled over this problem... There is no easy answer or im sure it would be implemented.

So this is the role of this thread:  Suggestions as to HOW we can get the kids/noobs involved ?

I'll suggest a mandatory background of 2 sides in perpetual war. Real war not just story war. This background would allow noobs to fall into character right from the start. And then STAY IC almost ALL the time. Each side fighting for power over key points in PS like the platinum mine. I know this is a massive almost impossible idea. But the basis is for ALL players to interact. Realtime RP to coin a phrase.

My thanks goto those who talked about this on IRC. You know who you are. Hehe.

Dragnoor


Timmothy Perriwinkle

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2008, 02:17:25 pm »
Honestly? I think the best way is to just let them play the game. You're right. I'm a kid these days, and it's been years since I've actually read a novel. I stay on my computer all day and night. And that is all.

But for those that have seen me in game, I RP. A lot. And yes, I do play my DS lite (though only with friends), and yes, when I originally came to this game it was to "pwn some monsters! lol!". The thing that changed me was those gently RPing around me. No one said "Get lost powerleveller!" or "You don't know the difference between IC and OOC so I'm going to /ignore you!" (Both of which I have seen ingame), no. They just RP'd correctly, and when I used 'lawl' they politely /told me "Please try to refrain from acronyms like 'lol' and 'lawl' on main. Try /me laughs instead :)"

And I did. And then I started experimenting with other things you could do with /me and it was fascinating. Yes, I screwed up a lot, but having people screaming at me that I failed OOCly wouldn't have helped. Nor would people forcing me to advance faster than I was. Had someone tried that, it would've just driven me away from RP.

Bleh, I'm babbling. But my point is, just let new characters do their best and politely advise them once and a while. It may be horribly painful at times to you, but in the end it's worth it.


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freeharte

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2008, 02:25:43 pm »
But my point is, just let new characters do their best and politely advise them once and a while. It may be horribly painful at times to you, but in the end it's worth it.

Just like raising children. :)

Yes, the only way there will be a new "generation" of roleplayers is to raise them.  Set an example, give helpful guidance, and discipline when it's absolutely necessary.  That's what the older "generation" does.

Piker

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2008, 04:19:07 pm »
I remember when i started  :)

I found the game (my first ever mmorpg, played a few others since though) and assumed it was like the rest, and that grind and level was the way to go. So i was probably the typical (but old  ;)) noob you are thinking of. However, not all noobs are intent on spoiling the fun of others, i just kept to myself at the start until i joined my first guild. Gradually i got my head around that people actally rp'd in this game and i started experimenting, and hell, you know what? i enjoyed this rp thang.

That was probably nearly 2 years ago now, and since my original chars are pretty strong and well leveled, i feel no need to PL any more skills and i mostly rp thse days. Although i still really enjoy looting for some reason, maybe it's the thrill of finding something rare that keeps me doing it :D What i'm probably trying to say is that i enjoy the rp, but i also enjoy engaging with the mechanics as they're fun too (except mining.. not fun)

Perhaps the newer players will follow a similar path and convert and enjoy as they learn more about what makes this game special. And if they don't? well so what. So long as they're having fun and remain respectful, then let them have fun with the mechanics :)

Rayken

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2008, 04:32:17 pm »
I think he's talking about integration rather than enforcement.  Ideally, we need mechanics that are fully integrated with RP so that when you RP you are using mechanics and when you use the mechanics you are RP'ing.  He's not talking about whipping newbies into shape.  From my perspective, this is the best possible end goal for PS to have.
"Here's to lowering caskets of old friends choice and consequence we'll birth a new day with the death of an old and start over, start over.  Here's to burying hatchets in those who you'd never call your friend...we'll birth a new day with the death of an old day and start over, start over!"

Orgonwukh

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2008, 06:33:13 pm »
It is easy to just run around and be restricted by game mechanics. If you RP seriously, you have to accept restrictions from settings, too. I think it is like giving away some sort of freedom if you do that. I observe this a lot: Players laughing at you if you tell them that their behaviour is against settings/rules. They say: "And what do you want to do against that?" It is difficult to explain to them the benefit of restricting yourself by accepting more rules than pure game mechanics. It might be caused by impatience or short sightedness, maybe.

NeoHazard

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2008, 06:37:38 pm »
^^Regarding what he just said, I agree 100%. For an MMORPG that is created for the intention of Roleplaying, I cannot think of a better goal. I completely understand what's being said here, and I fully agree. Noobs are oblivious, unfortunately, and will refuse to roleplay if they A. Don't want to, B. Don't feel like it (kind of A), and C. Aren't experienced enough. If the players were to be given a small tutorial ingame on how to roleplay successfully, they might feel a little more confident when going into the RP world. Encouraging behavior from other players helps this as well, and you should try to integrate players nearby you in your roleplays, especially ones that just seem to be running circles because they don't know what to do. From personal experience, I know that RPing on MMO's like World of Warcraft and City of Heroes/Villains, joining or finding a solid roleplay partner / group is difficult, especially when the core mechanic seems to be leveling, questing, looting, etc.

Try and include new people, you never know if a noob will turn out to be a fantastic roleplayer.

dandelion

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2008, 02:39:42 am »
Not having played yet due to the server...possibly requiring rather then encouraging RP, however some games that do this wind up loosing players. In my experience, more players would prefer to just level, and go to those types of games rather then one with pure RP (which is a little sad because I can think of nothing more fun then pure RP).

Another option if the game doesn't have it.. is allow a small amount of leveling just by being ig. This seems to have the advantage of taking the "pressure" off of skilling and allowing more RP.

Orgonwukh

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2008, 03:04:22 am »
Try and include new people, you never know if a noob will turn out to be a fantastic roleplayer.

I do that already, also because in these days almost every unknown player with RP experience is an alt :P
Seriously, noobs are welcome to our guild. It is a challenge and requires patience, but you are right, it is worth the effort.

dragnoor

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2008, 03:20:13 am »
We all have our opinions as to what can be done to encourage RP. But that's not what I asked.
I'm looking for suggestions as to how to integrate the two schools of thought.

Bring them together under one game mechanical system. This must be possible?

Crj

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2008, 03:37:24 am »
Yay, another n00b bashing thread about a lost time when grass was greener and people read books.
I dont see how reading LoTR gives someone imagination. Thats pure nonsense. Most fantasy books are written for enjoyment. A lot of them are very generic like the flood of Asian MMORPGs. Because people read such books, they usually RP godmodding orphans. Death to all parents!
Powerleveling and RPing can go together. Its just like people who spend countless hours in the gym or artists who draw every day. In real life these people get praised for it. Can you imagine anyone calling a musician a f-N0.0b just because he practices very often?
As long as the player stays IC and dosn't go LoLzoring around, i don't see a problem. You cant force people to enjoy the game exactly the way you want them to. Thats a very selfish thing.
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Mythryndel

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2008, 09:52:45 am »
I tend to agree with you Crj. There is no possible way to FORCE everyone to RP... well... maybe if you go to a dialog tree for ALL PC to (N)PC interactions. Even then, I don't see why someone couldn't come up with something that would be stupid and offensive... maybe just spinning in circles just to annoy the RPers...  (yes I have read people being ticked off because people were spinning in Kada's)...

I read something on the web the other day that really seems to fit... "It was funny how you could attach implications of possession to things that you didn't own." There are a lot of people that make statements/claims that their way of doing things should be the only way, and all others are not welcome. The problem is... regardless of their interpretation of settings or the main website... it is not theirs to make such statements/claims.

If you want to come here to PS, you are welcome (according to statements made by those that DO have the authority to make those statements). If you start becoming a nuisance, then you will likely be visited from on high by a GM. If you still don't either start acting IC (which does NOT mean sitting at Kada El's all day) or stop annoying others by your interaction with them, you might get kicked out. However, it is not the players decision, but the GMs.

[EDIT] One problem you have is the view each side has of the other... the PLers get pissy when they want to duel someone (for IC or OOC reasons) and get told to piss off. The RPers get challenged by someone who PLs and get upset that someone who has only been in game a few days/weeks can wipe the floor with them via the mechanics.

If you truly want to "merge" the two groups... you have to come up with a way of awarding experience/training/something for the people who only RP. OR you have to make the leveling/grinding a bit less painful/time consuming. If acquiring skill/stats weren't so painful, maybe more RPers would take the time to do it and RP their actual stats/skills.

For the record... I am NOT implying that ALL RPers don't have stats/skill to back up their RP. I am simply paraphrasing many arguments i have read here about people having such distaste for the leveling mechanics that they just roll up a new player and RP whatever they want, instead of making that character into what they want.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2008, 10:04:41 am by Mythryndel »

Bamko

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2008, 01:40:53 pm »
good points. CRJ (about practice esp)

PL'ing in real life is called AMBITION.  You have no idea how many times I heard that I am not really RPing because I am training my crafting...  and yet, when a young person works on a skill, say like swimming 4-8 hours a day, until the day he wins multiple gold medals at the Olympics... How many people claim he is not really playing his role in life? 

Then you have the social people, they like to call themselves Rp-ers.  Most are great people, but I do not understand some.  Some never practice then complain when they have no skills.  When I was running marathons, I ran 30-40 miles a week, every week.  When I was a boxer, I would train 3-4 hours a day, plus walk about 10 miles a week (every other day) pumping a 20lb weight in each hand to work my core and shoulders and arms.  All so I could play my "role" in the sporting event...

No one should be forced to practice, but I disagree that you should get levels for just breathing.  those who like rping to the exclusion of training get their reward, and I hope they are always welcome.  but, as in real life, if you dont put in the hours, you should not expect the 6-pac abs. 

I hope my analogies help explain my point.

Nikodemus

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2008, 03:54:17 pm »
* Nikodemus steps in.
That will be nothing what i wouldn't say before, but most of you weren't there when i did :]
Powerleveling is not the problem, the given similiarities to real life training are all correct, IMO.
The problem is how it is organized in the game. You don't kill 100 gladiators a day to get better in fighting. You don't kill 1000 tefusangs a day to make your living as a hunter. A smelter shouldn't melt and cast the same piece of metal over and over again, because that should be dang expensive and not really worth it after taking into account all factors which in fact aren't there.

It is not powerleveling. It is the game.



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Dreamcrafter

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Re: Bringing RP/ powerlevelling together. Suggestions please?
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2008, 03:56:38 pm »
I dont see how reading LoTR gives someone imagination. Thats pure nonsense. Most fantasy books are written for enjoyment. A lot of them are very generic like the flood of Asian MMORPGs. Because people read such books, they usually RP godmodding orphans. Death to all parents!

While I think much of your post had merit, this one thought is a bit disjointed and, I feel, erroneous.   Reading books is a very imaginative experience.  I admit, LotR isn't the most thrilling novel to read for some people.  (It was written in the tradition of the epic romance, rather than the novel, and Tolkien never intended it to be a "novel" in the strictest sense of the word.  Rather, he was writing his own saga like The Odyssey or similar... Suffice to say, the rhetorical intents and uses behind literary fantasy are elements that should not (and, honestly, cannot) be lightly turned aside.  True, most fantasy books (like most mass market books) are written to sell, and thus use generic, pre-packaged stories with stock characters to appeal to readers who want pop-fiction rather than literary fiction.  However, just because there is less literary, more mass-market fantasy out there does not preclude the validity or usefulness of fantastical works of literary fiction.  Lord of the Rings is a good example of such, as are some works by fantasy masters such as Ursula K. Le Guin, etc etc.  (Sorry, I'm in grad school training to be an English professor someday... I can't help myself sometimes.)

Ahem.  The bottom line is, there's plenty of validity to the argument that having read a lot of inspirational fantasy is a good way to write (i.e. role-play online) interesting and engaging, even entertaining characters.  No, not all interesting characters are orphans.  Broken families may be interesting right now because of the increasing numbers of people in many parts of society in the world (though I confess I speak from an American perspective) who are from broken families themselves, often with absent parents or simply alienation from their familial structure.  But I digress.  The point is, reading and creative engagement go a long way to enriching the experience of role-play, far more than mere grinding ever will.  Not that leveling doesn't have a place in RP--I believe that it does--but that it cannot be the defining element without losing something of the essence of what makes an interesting story, compelling characters.

Literature isn't just books, though I love them dearly.  Many films, songs, graphic novels, television shows, and yes, even video games can contribute to the literary landscape of fantasy.  The LotR films are one example, but so are the works of Hayao Miyazaki, Neil Gaiman, Akira Kurosawa, Shakespeare, or even Baz Luhrmann.  Watch Labyrinth, The Dark Crystal, Legend, whatever tickles your fancy, and try to figure out what makes it interesting.  What makes those characters not generic and dull?  Use it.  Learn from it.  Get crazy and creative with it.  Try one of those "random story starter" websites and write a background for your character, adapted to the PS setting.  See what works.  Most of all, have fun and get into the role.  Tell a story.

Isn't that really what role-playing is all about--having fun, being creative, telling stories?

...Okay, my pedantic and literary rant is now over.  >_>