Resurrect the PVP Zones

[Rigwyn]

If you guys are trying to foster ooc competition for a resource that exists in a non-pvp zone, then why would people bother mining at the pvp zone? It would be more efficient to mine the non-pvp spot.

If you want something to fight over, perhaps consider something other than a mineral resource.  Personally, I would suggest making a new pvp specific resource or currency.

Example:

Have a pvp currency that's earned by winning duels. Let that currency be used to buy things that benefit pvp only. ( We don't have pvp specific items,  but that could be changed)

Consider granting control over that area to an individual or group for a period of time as a reward for winning a group fight. ( Group vs group ). An example would be rights to use the old outlaws guild house for a month. New owners would be determined monthly at a pvp match.

Another idea might be to grant a pass out of the dr to the winning guild for a month at a time.

[Pierrette]

If you guys are trying to foster ooc competition for a resource that exists in a non-pvp zone, then why would people bother mining at the pvp zone?

Rigs, that's not what's being done here (although I like the ideas in your post).

The point is to have another pvp zone like the dlayo pit used to be - very tough NPCs along with top tier loot in a PVP zone.

Putting it at the mine is a separate idea, one that I liked but others don't.  But it wasn't the main point.

Vaneal and Far really really really want the dlayo pit back, Eonwind explained why that's not happening. 

So the question is - especially since Eonwind is willing to work on this - where to put the new dlayo pit?  At the plat mine on the jaggedy hill top?  Or in one of the valleys as Feas said?  I'm ok with anywhere it goes, I'm very impressed that it can happen at all.

[Rigwyn]

Does anyone even care about plat anymore? You don't need it to train like you once did, so money is not as valuable. ( and this is a good thing, when money is too valuable, people do stupid things like mine all day )

Regarding loot, what happens when you get all the special loot? Where is the incentive to continue? Once you have the loot and have no need to liquidate it for money, you don't really need it anymore, so it loses value.

Hell, if it were up to me, I would just turn the Eagle fort into a huge-ass pvp zone after moving quest npcs out of there. Nobody cares about the goddamn Eagle fort. People only go there because of quests. ( It's a shame, it's a very impressive looking area )

[feas]

Send all unneeded loot to me i am a noob needing upgrades

[Pierrette]

By the gods, stay on topic man!

[But I feel compelled to speak - a Perfect Trigrain Steel Miniskirt of Talad's Ankle is never going to lose value.  No one will sell it, it might be worn for dueling, wars, cups, parades, etc. but no one would sell it.

I LOVE THE GODDAMN EAGLE FORT!  Highly dramatic area, and yes it's totally underpopulated by us but there have been HIGH drama RP scenes there, I've had my own small RPs there...so yeah, let's don't turn the whole place into a PVP pit with all the mobs and all the people Rigwyn thinks are fools and grinders out there tearing up the lawn ].

Anyway!  So.  New pit location?  With klyros gladiators or...?  Is there an option for other races?

EDIT:  [Just saw Feas's post -  - when you see Rigs in game he'll probably give you something, and I will too - this is Nicoletta]

[Rigwyn]

Won't be seeing me in game any time soon otherwise, yeah, I'd give feas something.  lol

Anyway.... it's like chewing gum. After a while it just gets played and needs to be spit out.
Enjoy your gum.

[OctavianGrey]

I personally am not a fan of PVP, but I can appreciate what such an area could be.

I don't think having such an area on a mine or other mineral resource would be very good, as it would make trying to get a certain ore a nightmare and frustrate gameplay. I do like the idea of having such an area in a valley - there is a lot of space, people could come and watch if they really want, plus there would be an opportunity to use the environment such as rock formations or trees to your advantage if it was applicable.

For all that you don't see many people at the Bronze fort, it would not be very IC realistic for it to be a PvP area. It is a military establishment, full of the toughest warriors there to defend Yliakum. Nobody would be allowed to fight each other there - it would go against the idea of it and the spirit of the IC laws. On the other hand, if we made a particular part of it, like a ring or colosseum or a training ground as a PvP area, it could be more realistic - It could have "Guards" or "Warriors" stationed there for people to fight. Besides, it would ruin such a magnificent place to turn it into a PvP area - no one would be able to use its grandure for anything then.

Speaking of such rings, could there be other places like that around the dome? The IC Laws state that if you want to duel go to a designated spot or outside - PVP areas by or connected to a city could be a place for such things to happen. Or if we don't want rings just parts of lawless areas could be converted, as has been mentioned previously though not all areas else wise quests would become quite difficult.

[Hahaha good job Feas! Free gear. I might have to try it at some point.]

[Eonwind]

If you want something to fight over, perhaps consider something other than a mineral resource.  Personally, I would suggest making a new pvp specific resource or currency

this would be the how things should be done in the end, having a specific resource or gameplay for PvP players that does not enforce people unwilling to PvP. However this require a lot of work and we have more urgent priorities (like improving the group gamplay, completing the magic way specific gameplay, etc.) therefore it's not possible to do it in the short term.

PS Platinum is still very valuable as you can craft several things with it including jewels.

[Vaneal Serozen]

If you want something to fight over, perhaps consider something other than a mineral resource.  Personally, I would suggest making a new pvp specific resource or currency

this would be the how things should be done in the end, having a specific resource or gameplay for PvP players that does not enforce people unwilling to PvP. However this require a lot of work and we have more urgent priorities (like improving the group gamplay, completing the magic way specific gameplay, etc.) therefore it's not possible to do it in the short term.

PS Platinum is still very valuable as you can craft several things with it including jewels.

I am deeply concerned that making a new pvp specific resource or currency could be counterproductive to the goal at hand and lead to pvp being more ooc that what it already is.  I have seem similar systems in the past and dislike what I have seen as it usually allows someone who has pvped longer and is already more practiced have an even larger advantage in the form of pvp gear over someone who is new to it.  In addition to that, I feel that it will promote a lot of ooc fights between anyone and everyone who enters the pvp zone that you are not good friends with for the sake of powering up.  However, this would depend a lot of how the resourse was obtained.  I for one do not like killing everyone and anyone I can and would rather just see lawless areas as is fitting to the game settings and geography than have a new recourse to fight over.

I have played a couple games where pvp plays a massive role and they all seem to suffer from the same power vacum and extremely toxic communities.  To try to recreate this in little pvp zones in game would not be beneficial to ps in my honest opinion. 

[Zerxzz]

I agree. I don't think that a specific PvP resource/currency is suitable for RP reasons.

I like the idea of mineral(s) being in a PvP zone, I think it would add an interesting dynamic to this game by making the mineral "feel" more valuable and enhancing communication between players.  I've played games where there is a similar frustrating element and in the end I think it adds more enjoyment/involvement.

[Rigwyn]

Personally, I dislike PVP, but I do understand how it appeals to some, and that's fine. The point is, to be able to just go player on player is very shallow. I think a lot more could be done to deepen the experience, and I'm not talking about trying to mix in RP. The two should not be mixed, ever. I think having a mechanism for matching players on skill and armor level might be one enhancement, another would be to have a graded set of goals and rewards to provide reason to continue and opportunities to participate before maxing out. The PVP crowd would be more suited at pitching ideas on this.

[Vaneal Serozen]

Personally, I dislike PVP, but I do understand how it appeals to some, and that's fine. The point is, to be able to just go player on player is very shallow. I think a lot more could be done to deepen the experience, and I'm not talking about trying to mix in RP. The two should not be mixed, ever. I think having a mechanism for matching players on skill and armor level might be one enhancement, another would be to have a graded set of goals and rewards to provide reason to continue and opportunities to participate before maxing out. The PVP crowd would be more suited at pitching ideas on this.

I feel that the pvp element of ps is very similar to all the pve and rp elements of the game.  The lore and role play atmosphere is something that is very unique to ps that I have enjoyed for years. I have never participated in any kind of in-depth or lengthy rp but I respect and enjoy being part of it just by performing various actions in game.  Every action, pvp included, should be something that reinforces and builds your character.  For those who just want mass murder without even identifying the other players, there are tons upon tons of games solely focused on pvp that allow you to fight with or without stat balances.  Ps is not about those things.

Now, if there were a resource in the area, like the platinum mine, that could be considered a capture point that you would have to hold.  You will still have to dig it up though.  That is an acceptable implementation of that idea but other than things of that nature I see no place for such mechanics in ps.
 
The only other thing that I can think of for rewards or mechanics that would go well with ps is having a character's faction standing be effected by who he kills or engages.  The effect will depend upon the reputation of the target's/victim's own standings. If a player becomes to infamous/evil then he can be engaged anyplace and killed repeatedly.  This would rely heavily upon some kind of marking system to allow players to identify the standings of others.  The only thing I can think of for this would be a mark from a god like laanx, talad, xosia or maybe even dakkru.  These marks could be a result of players who have been killed by the player to be marked praying at a temple for the god's to avenge them.  This would take a prayer and maybe even some materials as an offering but would add an extremely cool element to the game in my honest opinion. These marks could stack so that for every kill the evil character could also be killed if the victim chose to pray for revenge and make an offering.  I do not know how practical or possible this would be to implement so take the idea for whats it worth I guess.

[Rigwyn]

In role play, the players would be the ones to spot such behavior ( ie praying to the wrong god or whatever )  and collaborate on how to resolve it. With role play, reputation is everything, so rumors and lies can lead to nasty or unexpected consequences. Similarly, with role play, we are the ones who create and uphold these in-character rules of conduct and the story that goes along with it. It's possible to take elements like this from role playing and infuse it with pvp, but to support that, fellow players need to be on the same page and understand how to separate character knowledge from player knowledge. Once you get someone who thinks it's just a big chaotic free for all, all this work and effort goes down the drain.

[Bonifarzia]

a pvp currency that's earned by winning duels

About ten years ago, there was a pretty useless system of duel points: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=25922.0

I don't think such a currency would be beneficial. From time to time, people tried to use guild points for a similar, player-driven system. Never really worked out well, as far as I have heard.

Placement of PvP zones: I think it is important to have clear boundaries, such that you know when you enter or leave the zone. An entire map instance might be cool, but then we have to be careful that loading points are outside of the pvp zone.

[Volki]

Just have certain areas in the wilderness set as PVP zones. Set them far enough away from the roads and cities so that someone can't just accidentally walk into them, but so that they are potentially in the path of the quickest route between cities. So, if you were to run in a straight(ish) line from, say, Ojaveda to Hydlaa, completely ignoring the roads, you run a risk of being killed along the way. This would have the added benefit of more player interaction on the roads.

Another good but questionable idea is to add small PVP zones into cities, for example the hidden alleyways and sewers, but tucked far enough away from places where beginners might go to train or quest. I swear that these at one point existed, but were rare.

As for making PVP worthwhile, we know for certain that we will never allow players to loot other players, so I propose this: allow stealing from other players, but only conditionally, and if the victim chooses. Assume that a player has been beaten or has yielded. The attacker can either kill the victim, let them go, or steal. The victim has a choice to offer something for their life. You'd need a longer wait period between losing and release, but I think this should only apply to PVP zones and be five minutes maximum.

Final idea (I swear), which I think would really help roleplay and tie into mechanics, is to make faction-based PVP. This is drawing from Dark Souls, but I could see it working really well here. Once you've joined a specific faction, a Dakkruist one for example, killing people could reward you with more faction rank but additionally give you points that you could exchange for money or items with an NPC in the Death Realm. Another (legal) example would be a gladiator faction, which gives you a point upon defeating another player in the Arena, and those points can be redeemed for money at an NPC in the Arena.

Tell me how all this sounds, because I'm pretty sure these ideas would save PVP. We need to make PVP great again!