/shout is broken. Put your suggestions here-in for fixing it.

[miadon]

surely if there is some kind of "voice box stat", and you shout to much your voice becomes damaged and takes a while to recover, In that time, its impossible to shout, so stops anyone from a constant spam of shouts? Also if anyone is going to constantly shout IC they would loose their voice. :\

[DaveG]

Hmm... that might be a good idea, actually.  Limit shoutting repeadiately.

[Kerol]

Alright. It's not broken, but heavily flawed.

no new player is going to use 7 different say commands

According to my suggestion, it only takes at max 3 commands (whisper, say, shout). If you include a variable in the /shout command how far it reaches (reducing the range, not going over a max), you can leave out all extra commands.
Actually, this way it would require only one command /communicate, but thats silly.

or a pile of checkboxes.

It's really not an act to ignore them if you don't need them. If you want to reduce complexity for newbies, disable the extra chat stuff by default and put the possibility to enable it in the options.

And again, this discussion isn't taking place because people abused the feature! It's because people actually used it for RP, but as it is, /shout simply is not fit for that.

Hmm... that might be a good idea, actually.  Limit shoutting repeadiately.

I thought that is covered by the repetition-prevention system?
But well, as said above, it wasn't abused by people repeatedly shouting crap or OOC shouting. A marriage was held over /shout and a sermon. Both was hard on the limit of being too much, simply because of the sheer amount of text flooding the chatwindow. After the sermon, there followed a discussion (still RP, no abuse!) which made further RP outside the event about impossible.

[DaveG]

Yeah, there is flood protection, but I'm saying it should be stricter with shouts.

All in all, the biggest problem here is /shout is too long range.  Most of the time we'd want it at half what it does now.

[Under the moon]

 DaveG: "With respect to complexity, no new player is going to use 7 different say commands or a pile of checkboxes.  It has to be simple, or it will not be used."

We cater to new players alone, now? What of those players that crave a more advanced system of communication? You know, the ones that actually stay around for a while? The players are bending the /talk commands to try to do some of these things now. I see no problem with making features that not everyone is advanced enough to use. Just as long as they are not -required- to use them. I have been told before that this game is "Made for all types of players." Then why do a lot of the people, the devout roleplayers, that I have talked to seem to feel left out.

I for one, would find a modified version of the 'checkbox' idea very usefull. It was a new idea for the Buddy List that I talked to one of the other Devs about before I ever posted here. I was told to post here so the idea was not forgotten. I was also told it would be a good job for a prospect. Kerol's suggestion is not only a good one, it is PERFECT for those of us that try to use the crippling current system for organizing role-plays.

I ask that you do not speak for all the players, as we have voices of our own. If we did not want features like this, we would not be asking for them.

However, I would like to thank you for giveing us what we have already.

[ThomPhoenix]

ot long ago, there was a big discussion about the usage of /auction.
The problem is that actual RP in that channel makes it impossible for other people to auction (because it's simply too much chat), whether OOC or IC.
So we agreed on minimalistic usage of that channel in order to make it possible for everyone (but OOC) to offer things to the public.
The actual bidding should be done in /say, in an RP fashion.

It's exactly the same issue with /auction as with /shout. With that many people, a usage as intented is doomed to become undesired due to being simply too much.

Well, I thought /auction was created to get offers and biddings out of /say.
Frankly, I've never seen any "RP spamming" in the auction channel, and I've never seen anyone getting confused with multiple auctions.
Auctions should stay where they belong, in the /auction channel.

By the way, have you ever played games like guildwars? If you auction there, after 1 sec it's spammed out of the chat window, but still you always get offers. People are simply not that slow and stupid as you would think.

The only thing that shouldn't be allowed is people using the auction channel to have conversations, as the range is bigger.

Well, ontopic again! 

[Kerol]

Sorry to say that but you seem to have little idea on what problems I get confronted with as GM.
If you can keep up with the chatwindow being flooded and you still can RP in that, good for you.
But that isn't the case with all the people who complain to me about such stuff, and those aren't necessary stupid and slow.

By the way, have you ever played games like guildwars? If you auction there, after 1 sec it's spammed out of the chat window, but still you always get offers.

I haven't played it, but one thing I heard about it from many people: it has about nothing to do with the kind of RP we have in PS. Therefor I see that comparison in that case as invalid.

Forwarding peoples suggestions and complains to the right place is one part of the duties of a GM.
My opinion on that subject reflects to a major part the people complaining about stuff and giving me input about how it could be done better.
Feel free to complain about my competences, but please give some stronger arguments than those stray ones you tried.

The only thing that shouldn't be allowed is people using the auction channel to have conversations

What RP auctions are, to 99%.

On topic:

The only thing that shouldn't be allowed is people using the auction channel to have conversations, as the range is bigger.

One solution to that could be to lower the range of auction dramatically.

[minetus]

what about a area specific for RP auctions..
insted of making it able to be done anywere

1: people knows were to go for auctions
2: it would be easier to mark its limit range

the problem would be if there were several diferent characters doing auctions, in another way it would open some roles up by the apearence of this auction places were specific people could get known and manage the auctions

[Santiago]

I seem to recall Vengeance being the first person to suggest the "checkbox chatwindow" several years ago. I am not sure why a filtering system like this hasn't yet been created, but I think it is still a very valid idea and would certainly help alleviate many of the concerns posted above.

Newbies or just "lazy people" may not bother to use the filters, but there is no harm in that. On the other hand, those who find issue with RP and other chat flooding their windows would be able to just uncheck "Shout" and go about their merry business.

[Kerol]

what about a area specific for RP auctions..
insted of making it able to be done anywere

Actually I find that a very good idea, if we had already appropriate areas for that. If we had auction houses or a market hall or similar and /auction limitted to those areas, that would be awesome, IMO.

[ThomPhoenix]

I haven't played it, but one thing I heard about it from many people: it has about nothing to do with the kind of RP we have in PS. Therefor I see that comparison in that case as invalid.

The "spam" we have in the auctions channel is nothing, really nothing compared to big MMO's, so why move auctions of their intended channel?
That's why I made the comparison.

What RP auctions are, to 99%.

I meant /say like conversations, that have nothing to do with auctions, people sometimes use the auction channel for that. I didn't mean auction related RP.

There isn't much auctions related RP anyway, 99% of the time it's just "Selling 6 slash short sword" etc.
I see no problem, really.

One solution to that could be to lower the range of auction dramatically.

Agreed. When at an auction, people have the tendency to talk louder than normal, so the range should we a bit bigger then /say.

And of course the best solution would be an auction house or market, but that takes time as it would need to be designed and developed first.

Feel free to complain about my competences, but please give some stronger arguments than those stray ones you tried.

Where the hell did I complain about your competences?
My post wasn't intended with any sarcastical tone whatsoever, if it seemed that way, I'm sorry.

edit:
Now I re-read my post I agree this statement:

People are simply not that slow and stupid as you would think.

was stupid, I meant so say "as one would think". It wasn't pointed at you. I meant to say people can deal with a little spam.

(I had to make said post in a hurry and had no time to re-read it properly after writing, so certain statements can be misinterpreted, like Kerol did --sorry)

[Kerol]

(I had to make said post in a hurry and had no time to re-read it properly after writing, so certain statements can be misinterpreted, like Kerol did --sorry)

Ok, forgiven and forgotten 

About RP in /auction:
You need to think the other way round. Why is there so little spam in the /auction channel? Why is there no RP in that channel?
1. The repetition-spam prevention of DaveG does a good job in general.
2. We GMs are very strict on spamming, plus that is supported by the majority of the players.
3. There is about no RP in that channel because the few times people tried it, it was frowned upon because of "blocking" the channel while the RP was running.

The "spam" we have in the auctions channel is nothing, really nothing compared to big MMO's, so why move auctions of their intended channel?

I know exactly what you mean and I also can give you the answer on that.
You need to differenciate between auction-spamming and RP auctioning.
Take a look at the auction chat of the "big MMO's" you compare it with. You see messages like "SELLING 10/99 BS FOR 100k! /tell Kerol!!!" all over the place, again and again.
It is more like a notice board where everyone "pins" his/her offers for everyone to see. You pick out the offer you like and /tell the guy. Everything further is usually done in a private chat or with very simple language in the auction chat.
In an RP auction, you don't simply put your items for sale, you also show your emotions, describe actions like "/me jumps on the stool and yells the next offer" and so forth.
You have a lot of "unnecessary" text in RP auctions, flooding the chat, thus blocking it for more "notice board - auctions".

Now we have the "notice board - auctions" in /auction (which is OOC, to 90%) but the /telling as mentioned above in "everything further is usually done in a private chat.." is done or should be done in /say instead.

I myself find that solution a pretty poor compromise, but it satisfies most needs.

My favourite auctioning system would only require a /shout with either flexible ranges like I proposed and/or having walls blocking the shout, as DaveG stated while having the auction in buildings. PLUS having a notice board at a central place where everyone actually could pin their offers and needs on.
A notice board would make the "notice board - auctions" redundant while the /shouting with very limitted range would simplify the systems while minimising the disturbing effects.

[ThomPhoenix]

Thanks for the flowers, have some too! -->

Well, I understand your plan, and that would be really great, but I was talking a bit about the best solution for the short term, which is difficult to solve either way. About the better auction system:
Yes, we would need a central "notice board".
We would need an auction area.

But before that's created, these might be good solutions too:

Make auction channel 1,2 and 3. Once players have posted in one channel, they can't post in another channel for 5 minutes to prevent cross-channel spamming of auctions. Of course this is completely OOC, but this makes RP during auctions more possible, as players can simply avoid a channel were an auction event is going on. This is a short term solution of course.

Make a chat system, where for each auction a "link" is created in the /auction channel. If you click on the link another extra auction window will open where everybody can RP whatever they like, people who don't want to see the RP, don't see it and everybody can join in! Once the auctions is finished the auction starter will do /auction finished or something and the extra auction windows will disappear again.
This would be a good solution, but also requires a bit more coding. Also it's very much OOC, but hey, if we want GM's to spend less time on stopping spammers and make /auction RP possible, we could need this. There might be better solutions though.

[Under the moon]

Pardon folks, but /shout and its /talk underlings were the subject here. In hopes of thread cohesion , and easier searching, I give you /auction: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=24966.0

[Paranoia]

if /tell is used to whisper to someone, why it has so big range?
you can /tell to someone who is miles from you.
i sugest making /tell [/whisper?] command, that you can use only standing near to someone (range the same as when working with furnace for example).

i think disabling the long range of /tell will be good for RP. it could produce some comunication about seeing someone, about where are we going.. more shouts in the terrain.. returning to towns just to look for your friends.. maybe some ingame message system (boards in towns?).

if long range communication you find absolutly nessesery (i dont), i think the function of /tell could provide /OOC tab. working just like /tell now. but this will be less confusing in my opinion.
and just like there is /away, there would be /OOC away, for those, who want to stay RP only.

if you need to ask a GM to unstick you for example, there is HELP tab, and also GM could use this tab for reaching you.

going further - i am for deleting the "guild" tab as this is another long range tool that is not RP at all.