Encourage Groups in PS

[Gaheris]

Good day all,

Finally found my way to the forum, so here my first post. On request after mentioning the same subject several times during a MeetTheDev meeting.
I've searches the forum for threads with similar content. I found a very old death thread, that comes close to my idea/wish.
You can read it here: http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=41704.msg474368#msg474368

First of all, i like PS alot. The game is huge, the crafting, the roleplaying gives this game more dept that most other MMORPG's i ever played.
But i miss something in this game, leading to this wish. Roleplaying seems to be the only reason for players to come/group together.

I would like to see more PvE combat with groups. In order to encourage that, i think some things should be changes/added.
As the other thread is also mentioning, is that players become a jack of all trades. There is no specialisation, no class.
I know from the MtD event, that PS would not like a class. But within the world of PS, where you can become everything, you could work yourself first to a specific class/role, but learning others. That would lower the learning curve for new players alot and add to my wish.
Have players gain more from group fighting. Let players have roles. Like a healer. (Please make healing spells have more distance, be able to be casted from a distance). Or a tank. I remember Talad's response on the Tank role, that it would not suit in the idea of PS. But we have heavy armor, we have differences in the Heavy Armor skill, the Agility and Endurance stat. We can now enchant armor (and put a defence modifier on it). Let guilds work together special tank armor for their events/parties. (And encourage high-end crafting to be important for a guild). And as the other thread stated, something called mob control / aggression control would be needed. Being a tank involved more than being a meat shield. You can to keep the big monster on you, so it won't attack the other (easier to kill) members of a group.

I don't really mind, how to encourage grouping. The above are just some examples.
The basic wish is, grouping together is a form of roleplaying, is great fun.
Ask yourself, what are the great moments you had in the game? And ask yourself, were you alone at that time or with other players?

Thank you for reading.

[Bonifarzia]

Hi Gaheris
That's a nice suggestion, so I'd like to comment, although I haven't been around for a while. (You 'llnotice that I already replied to the old topic you linked.)

I fully agree that multiplayer content is what makes the game fun, in contrast to solitary and repetitive actions, like "training". As far as I can see, such multiplayer content was and is player-driven, be it GM-events or spontaneous player interaction. There's a problem though, if you make group involvement necessary in early stages of the game experience (i.e. for new players), the game will heavily rely on a sufficiently large player base. In return, once you succeed in attracting more players, there will be more occasions for cooperative game-play, even if it is not really encouraged by means of game mechanics.

Much of what you are asking for has already been available for a while. There are powerful healing spells that work over large distances and also on groups of friends. And there is at least one enemy that is strong enough to pose a challenge for a group of hunters: This card was not only a joke. I have to say I enjoyed the group hunts I had on this beast, although there was not much of a reason to chase this baddy. The main reward was to get together and have some fun.

Concerning player progression (stats and skills), character classes and similar topics, you will find a lot of old discussions on these forums. Another big factor that can make things much more interesting are the various combat enhancements, which have been in development for a while. I wonder when they will be ready for a new release
http://194.116.72.94/pswiki/index.php?title=Combat_System
http://194.116.72.94/pswiki/index.php?title=Combat_enhancements
I think these enhancements will also put some more emphasis on cooperative game-play.

[cdmoreland]

It was a lot more fun to group and fight the mobs at one time. The new players got good PP and learned how to stay alive. With the mobs casting spells and players splitting the strongest player's PP it's not worth it for new players.

[redhound]

... Or a tank. I remember Talad's response on the Tank role, that it would not suit in the idea of PS...

I wonder, how having well-defined combat role couldn't suit the "idea of PS"... Is this conversation could be found in last MtD log? If there is one...

[Gaheris]

... Or a tank. I remember Talad's response on the Tank role, that it would not suit in the idea of PS...

I wonder, how having well-defined combat role couldn't suit the "idea of PS"... Is this conversation could be found in last MtD log? If there is one...

I haven't been able to find any logs of recent MtD's. It was a MtD in december i think.

[Gaheris]

Thank you Bonifarzia for your quick reply. And indeed you were also in they other Thread. Good to see, the people of those days are still around.

I fully agree with you, that playing together is the most fun part. And i also share your point about the large group base you need, if group involvement would be necessary. However that's not my wish. I would still like to see that people can play solo. But added to that, also a reason for people to group together. And to encourage grouping, since it's a form a roleplaying, that there would be a bonus. Like in tria drops, experience/pp).

[Bonifarzia]

A few years ago, I thought that it could be a good idea to make the "training" bit (gain of practice) more effective for players that cooperate as a group. Though, I could not come up with a good example, so I concluded it was not a feasible idea. Quite a while later, I realized that there is a skill that is (or was?) extremely tedious to train, but with a simple team-work recipe, it was much more efficient to advance. I even got a bunch of people to the arena gym for some training sessions, but there was not much interest, even though the (lack of?) mechanics  encouraged it. That's just a point I wanted to add.

Combat roles: When I look back at older statements, I guess Talad's point could have been that he does not want specialized roles in a limiting sense for character development. But of course you can use roles for your group tactics. For example, in the hunt I mentioned before, we had two attackers (there was not really a difference btw. damage dealers and tanks) and a bunch of supporters nearby.

Split PP in groups: I still think that rule is okay. Group mechanics are convenient for characters of roughly the same strength to share loot and PP. If you want to help a newer player with that, you can do better without forming a group, which will only make things more dangerous for the trainee.

[Volki]

The problem is that playing in groups isn't explicitly encouraged by any mechanics in PS.

Like Bonifarzia said, a velnishi can be tough, but there's not a tangible reward for killing them. Mobs like ulbernauts should require groups. And to offset that, their loot should be much more expensive.

[Mariana Xiechai]

In many MMOs, grouping is rewarded by shared experience, which causes the grind to be less arduous. In PS they did that with PP for a while, but I think it would be better to somehow incorporate it directly with the stats themselves.

This concept would also be great applied to higher level monsters giving more experience. Currently all experience comes from which spell you are casting. More variation is a thing that really needs looking into.

[Rigwyn]

Some epic mobs would be nice for this sort of thing. I don't mean a tiny little spider with a million hit points and a stinger that takes down most players in one shot, but bosses and swarms of grunt mobs that literally take a crowd of players to get under control.

In the past, gms have made horrible attempts to do this sort of thing by controlling ulbernauts with invincibility turned on and the ability to one shot any player. I'm sure it seemed like a great idea to the idiot who thought it up. For this reason, computer controlled crowds of mobs and bosses would probably be better.

[redhound]

Combat roles: When I look back at older statements, I guess Talad's point could have been that he does not want specialized roles in a limiting sense for character development. But of course you can use roles for your group tactics. For example, in the hunt I mentioned before, we had two attackers (there was not really a difference btw. damage dealers and tanks) and a bunch of supporters nearby.

Thanks for clearing this up. I think character combat role(s) will show up and then developed one way or another if he/she/kra pass through various combat situations which involve group tactics. Personally, I like tanking characters.

I would still like to see that people can play solo. But added to that, also a reason for people to group together. And to encourage grouping, since it's a form a roleplaying, that there would be a bonus. Like in tria drops, experience/pp).

Totally agree.

[redhound]

In the past, gms have made horrible attempts to do this sort of thing by controlling ulbernauts with invincibility turned on and the ability to one shot any player. I'm sure it seemed like a great idea to the idiot who thought it up. For this reason, computer controlled crowds of mobs and bosses would probably be better.

Indeed... As general base, it would be better to have bosses with high HP and regen rate and somewhat increased (but not unbearable) damage. So more chars will be needed just to produce required DPS value to overcome high HP reqen rate and distribute damage done by the boss. And it is pretty simple to implement, but why this is not here?.. Minions, special attacks, status effect area spells, various anger reasons, weaknesses/hardpoints - feel free to add more sugar later...

(Un)regular invasions is also great thing ("They breached from the Bronze Doors!"). If my char could help clean Iron Temple from some abominations, he would feel himself more blessed by Laanx...

[Bonifarzia]

Most of the things suggested for "boss" mobs are already in place. I guess most players have never faced Xalpalok (sometimes mistaken as CAPSLOCK), as the damn thing is so tough that you need rather high ranks and rare weapons, and the location is somewhat secluded. This NPC has a wide variety of spells (healing, area of effect damage, damage reflection), special attacks (area stun), and a very high base value for health regeneration. Its loot included a somewhat special base item, which could be found in other ways, though. (As far as I remember, maybe some things changed.) Imo, a better reason to hunt a big monster would be a better chance to find items with rare modifiers ("random names").
Tribes AI is another approach meant to encourage PvE parties. Some NPCs do cooperate to defend themselves, and there were even notes about dynamic NPC populations based on some resources. You just don't see much of all of this if you whack down the beasties before they stand a chance to react. So, I think that cool mechanics have been available for a long time, and further game tweaks can make things much more interesting.

[Volki]

I thought Xalpalok was a joke.

[BoevenF]

I do remember a velnishi that roasted me like in two seconds... Never ever been there again.