1
General Discussion / Re: Customers
« on: August 26, 2008, 09:01:21 pm »
Bah, you're right, CS, not Ogre on this project. Still open source. Same concept.
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2
General Discussion / Re: Customers
« on: August 26, 2008, 08:54:16 pm »
I'm sorry, but I disagree. Every person who uses a service you provide is a customer. Amount rendered for those services is irrelevant. Tell the millions of OpenOffice users they are not customers of Sun. Tell the millions of Linux users they are not customers of whosoevers distribution they are using. Is not the PS development team a customer of Ogre (oops, Crystal Space), the developer of PS's graphics engine? How would they feel if they were told, sorry, you're not a customer of ours because you didn't pay for this so bug off and we don't care if you're having trouble using it. The PS team has leveraged from the open source community, and they are surely customers of those software providers. If you are having trouble with this concept, you have missed the boat on the whole open source movement thing.
This may be a matter of semantics; the OP's feelings about the people who play PS is beyond a typical customer/provide relationship, but in the strictest of definitions, they're/we're customers. If you don't like that, then you should stop advertising PS as an open source project, and stop leveraging from the open source community. The GPL is designed to protect users and developers equally. It's just a way of thinking about the people who use your products, so please don't take it lightly or dismiss it just because there is no money changing hands.
That said, it doesn't give us, the customers, a right to be asshats to the development team. I admit I've crossed the line a time or two out of frustration, and bottom line is that even though I argue we're customers, we should still appreciate the work being done by the dev's. What they do is not easy, and it's just common courtesy.
This may be a matter of semantics; the OP's feelings about the people who play PS is beyond a typical customer/provide relationship, but in the strictest of definitions, they're/we're customers. If you don't like that, then you should stop advertising PS as an open source project, and stop leveraging from the open source community. The GPL is designed to protect users and developers equally. It's just a way of thinking about the people who use your products, so please don't take it lightly or dismiss it just because there is no money changing hands.
That said, it doesn't give us, the customers, a right to be asshats to the development team. I admit I've crossed the line a time or two out of frustration, and bottom line is that even though I argue we're customers, we should still appreciate the work being done by the dev's. What they do is not easy, and it's just common courtesy.
3
General Discussion / Re: a request from the settings team
« on: August 24, 2008, 10:10:45 am »
Okay, I see the diff between living in a cave and knowing it's a giant stalactite. Didn't quite get that right in my first post.
I am intrigued by the idea that maybe the world isn't a stalactite, though maybe a little disappointed too. PS was building from Daunte's Inferno, the x levels of the world, be it heaven, hell, or something in between. There was something magical and different about that. Don't know if any of you ever played Planescape:Torment (though I always kind of thought Planshift was partially inspired by Planescape), but that was a great game that took this different kind of approach. When I first read the the lore of PS, it seemed pretty written in stone what had happened between Talad and Laanx and how they discovered and built the world of Yliakum. It seems like there has been a backing off on this whole story by the settings team. There seems to be a lot more question about what is going on, and if the whole thing is true or not, and that puts all the religions of PS as nothing more than myth. If it's not a given that the world is in stalactite, then it's not a given that Talad or Laanx even exist. If they don't, what other implications does that lead to?
I really wish someone would rewrite all the history sections of the website given what has developed. There's just so much conflicting information there with what the settings teams seems to have moved the story too. I know, time time time. Maybe someday.
Would it be possible to create a forum thread that links all the various threads and discussions that contain settings information? That would make finding some of the information a little easier. Lock the forum if you're worried about spoilers and only let the settings team post to it. Just something that collects and stores it in one place.
I am intrigued by the idea that maybe the world isn't a stalactite, though maybe a little disappointed too. PS was building from Daunte's Inferno, the x levels of the world, be it heaven, hell, or something in between. There was something magical and different about that. Don't know if any of you ever played Planescape:Torment (though I always kind of thought Planshift was partially inspired by Planescape), but that was a great game that took this different kind of approach. When I first read the the lore of PS, it seemed pretty written in stone what had happened between Talad and Laanx and how they discovered and built the world of Yliakum. It seems like there has been a backing off on this whole story by the settings team. There seems to be a lot more question about what is going on, and if the whole thing is true or not, and that puts all the religions of PS as nothing more than myth. If it's not a given that the world is in stalactite, then it's not a given that Talad or Laanx even exist. If they don't, what other implications does that lead to?
I really wish someone would rewrite all the history sections of the website given what has developed. There's just so much conflicting information there with what the settings teams seems to have moved the story too. I know, time time time. Maybe someday.
Would it be possible to create a forum thread that links all the various threads and discussions that contain settings information? That would make finding some of the information a little easier. Lock the forum if you're worried about spoilers and only let the settings team post to it. Just something that collects and stores it in one place.
4
General Discussion / Re: a request from the settings team
« on: August 23, 2008, 04:56:08 pm »
Wait. Only a few people in this world know we're in a stalactite? That seems highly unlikely. Travelers coming from the Bronze Doors would spread the word that they could see the walls spreading up and over them. I'm sure there are other zones to be built yet that will also reveal the underground/stalactite nature of the world they're in once they're built, such as the lower levels that would gradually decrease in size, which supposedly are there, just not in game yet. We've had discussions on if the texture of the ceiling looked more like a cave or sky, and the opinion was that it was indeed a cave observable from all over the realm. There are the holes they throw stuff down into that they supposedly know drops down inside an even bigger cave than the one they're living in. The harder thing to explain is that giant crystal floating in the sky. 
I can understand not everyone having a solid understanding of what a stalactite was, but there are stalactites and stalagmites observable in the world. Someone would have had to have said at some point, "We live in something like that, only bigger." and that would have spread throughout fast. Plus, if they're believers in Talad or Laanx, the whole story would have been there. Why hide it? This doesn't seem like something that the select few would hold to themselves. There's no source of power in it, in fact, if they want to stop people from getting resources at will, something people in power like to do, it would only make sense to tell everyone they are in a stalactite and they risk causing the collapse of the entire world if they continue digging for ore outside of their own special interests. They have the perfect means of control over the populace's quest for resources. They're not going to ruin that.
From a pure gaming perspective, the "living in a giant stalactite" was a main feature that has drawn me here to see how different PS could be, instead of the standard "live on a globe" environment.
It seems to me the cat is out of the bag. The players make up most of the general populace, and they know and talk about it in game. The NPC's should certainly have picked it up by now.
I can understand not everyone having a solid understanding of what a stalactite was, but there are stalactites and stalagmites observable in the world. Someone would have had to have said at some point, "We live in something like that, only bigger." and that would have spread throughout fast. Plus, if they're believers in Talad or Laanx, the whole story would have been there. Why hide it? This doesn't seem like something that the select few would hold to themselves. There's no source of power in it, in fact, if they want to stop people from getting resources at will, something people in power like to do, it would only make sense to tell everyone they are in a stalactite and they risk causing the collapse of the entire world if they continue digging for ore outside of their own special interests. They have the perfect means of control over the populace's quest for resources. They're not going to ruin that.
From a pure gaming perspective, the "living in a giant stalactite" was a main feature that has drawn me here to see how different PS could be, instead of the standard "live on a globe" environment.
It seems to me the cat is out of the bag. The players make up most of the general populace, and they know and talk about it in game. The NPC's should certainly have picked it up by now.
5
Newbie Help (Start Here) / Re: Is there a map of the planeshift overworld/underworld somewhere?
« on: August 21, 2008, 06:57:16 am »
Since the dev's want something unique to the PS world, are against a mini-map (me too), don't want a magnetic North compass, how about one that always points to the crystal since that is the focus of the world? That would at least let you get your bearings and help you understand how all the zones are tied together relatively. That type of compass would seem to fit within the bounds of the game design. It should be purchasable in game. It also means that level designers will have to keep their layouts consistent, something they're probably doing now, but not sure if everything has been designed that way in the past.
(didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this idea has been posted)
(didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this idea has been posted)
6
Complaint Department / Re: Stamina System
« on: August 09, 2008, 06:54:39 am »
Well, I lied... I am responding again. Sorry, this answer has just been bugging me.
So, the official answer to this is to just suck it up for a month or two while we do nothing but pump points into strength and endurance to fix the stamina system because the devs like punishing new players with incredibly weak characters who can't even walk a city block without having to stop and rest for a few minutes???
Frigg'n lame. I haven't earned enough points yet to fix this system to an acceptable level. Would you mind enlightening us on what the target number is when it stops being an issue?
How about this? Different stamina corrections for each zone. In the city, which should represent a smaller area than say the zones between cities even though in game they are about the same, stamina doesn't get lost at all so we can at least walk around the cities without having to stop every minute or two. Out in the wide open zones, which represent larger distances, our stamina drains faster. Combat would still cause a loss of stamina, even in the cities. This would correct some of the problems without having to rework the whole character system.
I guess you all play dwarves or Kran who start with incredibly high str/sta and dont' have to suffer this. This becomes very painful for an elf and probably a few other races, especially if you do something stupid like put points into other stats first, you know, as in playing the game instead of fixing it. I'll take anything.
So, the official answer to this is to just suck it up for a month or two while we do nothing but pump points into strength and endurance to fix the stamina system because the devs like punishing new players with incredibly weak characters who can't even walk a city block without having to stop and rest for a few minutes???
Frigg'n lame. I haven't earned enough points yet to fix this system to an acceptable level. Would you mind enlightening us on what the target number is when it stops being an issue?
How about this? Different stamina corrections for each zone. In the city, which should represent a smaller area than say the zones between cities even though in game they are about the same, stamina doesn't get lost at all so we can at least walk around the cities without having to stop every minute or two. Out in the wide open zones, which represent larger distances, our stamina drains faster. Combat would still cause a loss of stamina, even in the cities. This would correct some of the problems without having to rework the whole character system.
I guess you all play dwarves or Kran who start with incredibly high str/sta and dont' have to suffer this. This becomes very painful for an elf and probably a few other races, especially if you do something stupid like put points into other stats first, you know, as in playing the game instead of fixing it. I'll take anything.
7
Complaint Department / Re: Stamina System
« on: August 07, 2008, 07:16:47 pm »
*whistles* 
IF I was so inclined, I *might* say you will spend a lot of time training to pump a ton of points into endurance and strength and it still won't make any difference to how much time you'll be sitting...
That is *if* I was inclined, but you know, ... just trying to behave.
P.S. No, the OP is not me and I have no idea who he is... just thought I'd add that after my last thread (I won't post on this again so no need to lock it )
IF I was so inclined, I *might* say you will spend a lot of time training to pump a ton of points into endurance and strength and it still won't make any difference to how much time you'll be sitting...
That is *if* I was inclined, but you know, ... just trying to behave.
P.S. No, the OP is not me and I have no idea who he is... just thought I'd add that after my last thread (I won't post on this again so no need to lock it
)
8
Technical Help: IN GAME bugs (after loading world) / Re: Getting stuck in the jagged landscape
« on: August 03, 2008, 04:06:35 pm »
*sigh* same problem. Can't walk on a road anymore. I've found constantly jumping helps keep you moving, but drains your stamina faster. This is pretty frustrating.
9
Complaint Department / Re: Bring back the fun
« on: August 03, 2008, 06:31:36 am »
Dang you, Prolix!! How dare you post on your alt. I would have taken it lighter if I'd known it was you.
I know all that, Prolix. I don't have any "non-essential" stuff, at least nothing I want to spend more hours re-acquiring. I can't even wear mail armor without going over the death limit yet. As soon as I died, I pumped all my saved progress points into strength and endurance and it still didn't make much diff. I love to tradeskill when I play games. I want to be a good blacksmith in game, which means carrying around a lot of heavy ore while I work on things. I don't want to sell that stuff just because a game mechanic caused me to die, or even if I just get in a bad spot.
And yeah, mouse-move shall never be turned on again. I've provided some feedback on the forums on the stamina bug, but not really on the bug tracker. Figure this is common enough that there should be plenty of info on that. It shouldn't be that hard to fix.
But really, if you hear the same things over and over, maybe that should be telling you something. The main point of the post was that I wanted to play PS, but all I did for a couple hours was spend time sitting. That just isn't fun, and I haven't been back since. There has to be a way to keep a player doing something while he's stuck in these resting situations.
And really, guys, honestly, I'm telling and posting this because I want you to succeed, not to just get in your face about things. I've been on software projects that just went nowhere and it's not fun to see your hard work go to waste. I try to find solutions that fits your goals but helps the game succeed. You say you want the community to grow. I wish you well, and all I can say is you should listen more to the criticism's. They're the reason people aren't playing.
I know all that, Prolix. I don't have any "non-essential" stuff, at least nothing I want to spend more hours re-acquiring. I can't even wear mail armor without going over the death limit yet. As soon as I died, I pumped all my saved progress points into strength and endurance and it still didn't make much diff. I love to tradeskill when I play games. I want to be a good blacksmith in game, which means carrying around a lot of heavy ore while I work on things. I don't want to sell that stuff just because a game mechanic caused me to die, or even if I just get in a bad spot.
And yeah, mouse-move shall never be turned on again. I've provided some feedback on the forums on the stamina bug, but not really on the bug tracker. Figure this is common enough that there should be plenty of info on that. It shouldn't be that hard to fix.
But really, if you hear the same things over and over, maybe that should be telling you something. The main point of the post was that I wanted to play PS, but all I did for a couple hours was spend time sitting. That just isn't fun, and I haven't been back since. There has to be a way to keep a player doing something while he's stuck in these resting situations.
And really, guys, honestly, I'm telling and posting this because I want you to succeed, not to just get in your face about things. I've been on software projects that just went nowhere and it's not fun to see your hard work go to waste. I try to find solutions that fits your goals but helps the game succeed. You say you want the community to grow. I wish you well, and all I can say is you should listen more to the criticism's. They're the reason people aren't playing.
10
Complaint Department / Re: Bring back the fun
« on: August 02, 2008, 06:21:50 pm »
I knew I didn't want to read the responses. This place is so lame sometimes. 
No, I am not talking about the stamina bug. I know all about that. This is basic gameplay and something I've been experiencing for the past year since I started playing again.
No, I am not using more than one account. My character is Sendar. I have one account on this forum. I do not post and respond to myself. My account is not my character name just because and I don't give a flying $#!t if you don't like it.
I offered constructive criticism, that is all. Ignore away.
No, I am not talking about the stamina bug. I know all about that. This is basic gameplay and something I've been experiencing for the past year since I started playing again.
No, I am not using more than one account. My character is Sendar. I have one account on this forum. I do not post and respond to myself. My account is not my character name just because and I don't give a flying $#!t if you don't like it.
I offered constructive criticism, that is all. Ignore away.
11
Complaint Department / Bring back the fun
« on: August 02, 2008, 09:30:52 am »
Hey guys, me again,
First, I really want to say that PS is a great game in the making. Tons of potential and I don't want to whine about what may or may not be implemented or how it's done, but I should relate my recent experiences here. I do jump around a lot playing games and there are a ton of them out there. PS is not the only free MMORG. In many ways it is the best, in others it's got a long way to go. When I play a game, I am looking for something to draw my attention in and hold my interest for a while. I've read a few threads about how player numbers are down. Here is a thought on why.
I recently had a few hours and was looking for something to do. I decided to play PS for a while. So I log in. New patch, great! Updates perfectly and runs. So far so good. So I go in and decide to go exploring. I start running. 30 seconds later, I have to stop and sit for a couple minutes to regen stamina. Get up, repeat. Get up, repeat. I find a small area I don't remember going to, so I zone in and am thoroughly impressed by what I see. The Bronze Door area with the cave and massive waterfall, excellent. Somehow I missed this little out of the way zone, so I'm psyched! So I keep running. And sitting. Repeat. I'm trying to explore this little area and I constantly have to sit and rest. Sit, rest. Get the picture? It seems I have to sit 2 minutes for every one minute of movement.
But anyway, I keep going because I'm kind of used to this. Now I'm up on the top of the keep above the waterfall. I'm looking around because I picked up a quest to find some people. I click on someone far away to see his name, but apparently I missed by a pixel and bang, I run off the edge into the waterfall and die. Now I'm in the death realm, and, because I have no place to store anything, I carry my stuff with me. So when I get out I'm overloaded, of course, and now I'm sitting there for a half hour unable to do anything. Half hour passes, I get up and start trying to find my way back cause I hadn't spent enough time there and really wanted to see that zone again. Add to the fact that I really don't quite remember how I got there, and now I have some exploring to do again.
Run, sit............., run, sit............
Finally get back and it's now two or three hours that I've been doing this and I've spent more time sitting than playing. This is NOT fun. So I log until the mood strikes me again to go back and play.
So I know many of these complaints have been posted before, but I really wanted to relate an experience from a perspective of people who are just trying to find out what PS is like. I do feel a new player will spend way too much time sitting and that needs to be fixed (also the "click" thing too, but I turned that feature off and shall never turn mouse-run on again).
Suggestions:
1. Give every player some off character storage. I know the bank is coming, give it some priority. I also know guilds have some form of it, new players won't be in guilds, and many players, such as myself, will chose to stay out of guilds until we're more sure of the game. If I could just store all that ore and crafting supplies off character till I wanted to use it, then I wouldn't be so overloaded all the time. This is pretty standard, and that alone would have saved me a half hour of sitting with the death curse unable to move. Also, not asking for the death penalty to be removed, I'm okay with it as it is, but we get trapped into the condition where we can't plan for it.
2. Relook at the run/sit ratio. I know it's somewhat related to our carrying weight, but consider new players who start with very low stats. They are deciding whether they're going to play and if all they end up doing is sitting all the time, they aren't going to stay. Please understand that I am not asking for encumbrance or stamina to be removed. It's a great feature, but I think we should only take a stamina penalty when we're running, and when we walk we very SLOWLY regain it, but we don't lose it. That way we can keep moving and not have to sit so dang much. If we chose to sit, we regain it much faster such as when we get to a group of monsters that we may need to fight. The point is, keep us doing something, anything, that shows some progress. Making us stop all progress constantly is not a good way to keep people interested. The ratio of running vs. sitting for an average character should be at least 1:1. From my experience, the combat usage of stamina is fine, it's just the run/sit/walk ratios that really need looking at.
When I started playing PS years ago, I don't remember this kind of frustration. Seems it has evolved to this over time and should be relooked at.
First, I really want to say that PS is a great game in the making. Tons of potential and I don't want to whine about what may or may not be implemented or how it's done, but I should relate my recent experiences here. I do jump around a lot playing games and there are a ton of them out there. PS is not the only free MMORG. In many ways it is the best, in others it's got a long way to go. When I play a game, I am looking for something to draw my attention in and hold my interest for a while. I've read a few threads about how player numbers are down. Here is a thought on why.
I recently had a few hours and was looking for something to do. I decided to play PS for a while. So I log in. New patch, great! Updates perfectly and runs. So far so good. So I go in and decide to go exploring. I start running. 30 seconds later, I have to stop and sit for a couple minutes to regen stamina. Get up, repeat. Get up, repeat. I find a small area I don't remember going to, so I zone in and am thoroughly impressed by what I see. The Bronze Door area with the cave and massive waterfall, excellent. Somehow I missed this little out of the way zone, so I'm psyched! So I keep running. And sitting. Repeat. I'm trying to explore this little area and I constantly have to sit and rest. Sit, rest. Get the picture? It seems I have to sit 2 minutes for every one minute of movement.
But anyway, I keep going because I'm kind of used to this. Now I'm up on the top of the keep above the waterfall. I'm looking around because I picked up a quest to find some people. I click on someone far away to see his name, but apparently I missed by a pixel and bang, I run off the edge into the waterfall and die. Now I'm in the death realm, and, because I have no place to store anything, I carry my stuff with me. So when I get out I'm overloaded, of course, and now I'm sitting there for a half hour unable to do anything. Half hour passes, I get up and start trying to find my way back cause I hadn't spent enough time there and really wanted to see that zone again. Add to the fact that I really don't quite remember how I got there, and now I have some exploring to do again.
Run, sit............., run, sit............
Finally get back and it's now two or three hours that I've been doing this and I've spent more time sitting than playing. This is NOT fun. So I log until the mood strikes me again to go back and play.
So I know many of these complaints have been posted before, but I really wanted to relate an experience from a perspective of people who are just trying to find out what PS is like. I do feel a new player will spend way too much time sitting and that needs to be fixed (also the "click" thing too, but I turned that feature off and shall never turn mouse-run on again).
Suggestions:
1. Give every player some off character storage. I know the bank is coming, give it some priority. I also know guilds have some form of it, new players won't be in guilds, and many players, such as myself, will chose to stay out of guilds until we're more sure of the game. If I could just store all that ore and crafting supplies off character till I wanted to use it, then I wouldn't be so overloaded all the time. This is pretty standard, and that alone would have saved me a half hour of sitting with the death curse unable to move. Also, not asking for the death penalty to be removed, I'm okay with it as it is, but we get trapped into the condition where we can't plan for it.
2. Relook at the run/sit ratio. I know it's somewhat related to our carrying weight, but consider new players who start with very low stats. They are deciding whether they're going to play and if all they end up doing is sitting all the time, they aren't going to stay. Please understand that I am not asking for encumbrance or stamina to be removed. It's a great feature, but I think we should only take a stamina penalty when we're running, and when we walk we very SLOWLY regain it, but we don't lose it. That way we can keep moving and not have to sit so dang much. If we chose to sit, we regain it much faster such as when we get to a group of monsters that we may need to fight. The point is, keep us doing something, anything, that shows some progress. Making us stop all progress constantly is not a good way to keep people interested. The ratio of running vs. sitting for an average character should be at least 1:1. From my experience, the combat usage of stamina is fine, it's just the run/sit/walk ratios that really need looking at.
When I started playing PS years ago, I don't remember this kind of frustration. Seems it has evolved to this over time and should be relooked at.
12
General Discussion / Re: stamina changed?
« on: July 19, 2008, 02:55:03 pm »
I've done those tricks, they don't work, at least not for me.
My stamina is draining in seconds even when I don't zone. I've noticed it seems to be tied to the run command. I have had it where I switched from run to walk, and back to run, it triggered the effect and drained me. Switching back and forth real fast stopped the drain.
My stamina is draining in seconds even when I don't zone. I've noticed it seems to be tied to the run command. I have had it where I switched from run to walk, and back to run, it triggered the effect and drained me. Switching back and forth real fast stopped the drain.
13
Linux Specific Issues / Re: Bad graphics on loading new area
« on: July 18, 2008, 06:47:12 pm »
511 MB is a bit low. You may be running out of texture memory. Not sure if upgrading your memory system is an option, but may want to if you can. How much of a swap file did you give it? PS takes a lot of memory if you let it. Do you have "pre-load textures on" or "keep all textures in memory" options set? You may want to make sure those are off as when I enabled them once, my system started behaving pretty erratic after a few zone changes.
14
Linux Specific Issues / Re: Newbi on linux
« on: July 18, 2008, 06:36:16 pm »
I have to run the ./psclient.bin to get it to work. Running the ./psclient will crash as I remember it. I haven't looked at it much further than that though. It just works. So make sure you chmod on psclient.bin as well.
On another note, I have mine installed locally, didn't pick the install system wide options. (also, I'm on SuSe, not Mandrivia, but don't think that would be the problem unless you are getting specific library compatibility issues).
On another note, I have mine installed locally, didn't pick the install system wide options. (also, I'm on SuSe, not Mandrivia, but don't think that would be the problem unless you are getting specific library compatibility issues).
15
Wish list / Re: Faster Camera Movement
« on: July 18, 2008, 06:25:07 pm »
I have just the opposite problem in the Linux client. Barely touching the mouse wheel whips the view around so fast I can't control it. I don't know if that is just my system though. The problem seems to be that it detects a deflection in the wheel movement and exaggerates it. If I'm real careful pressing the mouse wheel, it works okay and I can control it. I tried remapping it to the right mouse button, but it wouldn't take it.