MOB Problems & Resting

[MustangMR]

Okay, I know, 1000 posts on this issue, but that should be telling you something.  I will be respectful of the developers cause I'm a software developer myself and I can appreciate those bugs that just don't want to go away.  I seem to have a lot of time to post though because I'm constantly sitting to rest up.

This issue really needs resolving.  I'm new here and it's frustrating starting the game with nothing to do.  I understand your desire to RP first, but there needs to be something to keep the game moving.  Fortunately, I saved up a lot of my progress points while I figured out the game and can now mine and do metallurgy to keep things interesting, but running around (and resting every 20 feet) to find out all the mobs I'm capable of killing are broken is just irritating.

One thing I've noticed, and not sure if it's accurate, but it seems that the mobs break one at a time.  Once they break, it's over for that mob until a server reset happens.  Eventually, all the mobs are broken.  I fought a rat last night that broke on me and this morning he was still in the same location.  I'm wondering if you could just put in a reset timer on all mobs once every hour or something to work around the core problem for the time being. 

Think this issue and the amount of time I have to spend just resting all the time are the single biggest issues in the game.  I can appreciate a hard game and the rest I can understand, but these two items I think are just a bit over the top.  I should be able to walk across a small courtyard without having to sit down and rest. 

EDIT: It's not my intent to blast the devs.  There is a ton of hard work that went into this game and I appreciate that.  My main point, that I kind of forgot in the first post, is that all other issues should be stopped until this is fixed.  Please stop working on new additions until you correct the core game module.  Put all your resources on this problem, and I bet it gets resolved fast. 

[Prolix]

I think the problem is with mob movement, they get stuck on something and become impervious. If you do not move around they are less likely to break on you. Of course some of them attack on their own initiative. 

If you keep running out of stamina train up your strength and endurance. Not only will you have more stamina, you will be able to carry more and hit harder as well. In addition, I believe you will gain health points and be able to take more damage. When you are starting out there is a fine balance between leveling your skills and stats. You need to raise your weapon and armor skills but you also need to raise their relevant stats. The stronger you are the better able you will be to utilize your skills.

I have always found that using healing pots helps you gather pp quicker because you are ready to fight so much sooner and you can fight stronger mobs. Some people object to using them in combat as being OOC but I do not let that stop me except perhaps for pvp. Make a hot key and use it. It does get expensive though.

[MustangMR]

I did get the heal spell and that sped things up a lot.  If I had a heal endurance spell, that would help tons.  I am thinking that it may be in game now, but I can't afford the glyphs at the moment, and that makes the broken mobs all that more frustrating.  They are the best source of income at the moment.  Mining is just plain expensive and hardly worth the effort from an economic point of view.

I'm not sure about movement though, unless it's just any movement.  A large number of mobs I see broken appear to be in their spawn points.  I just happened to notice that one cause I did move him down a small step when he broke.  That is probably one cause; there may be other reasons they break too.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I'd love to have enough progress points to raise endurance.  I'm working on that, but again, with the mob problem, I dumped all my points into tradeskills to have something to do.  Going to be a while before I get enough to raise those skills.

[Prolix]

If you are mining for monetary gain and not mining platinum you are being inefficient, unless that mine is depleted. It is worth the most as far as I know. Perhaps it is harder to mine anyway but I think not. Mining and crafting does use up your stamina faster then fighting from what I can tell.

Oh and mining is free, training is expensive. I have never seen much difference with mining levels but perhaps it is something I just haven't noticed. You do know if you are sitting your stamina recovery rate is increased ... right?

[Bereror]

People seem to have an impression that there is a large number of developers behind this game and they can be thrown into a specific issue to fix it quicker. In a fact, the number of developers is actually very small and the number of active developers even smaller. What you see is actually a work of a small group of developers, who have somehow managed to make a great game.

I haven't been around for a while, but I believe there is only one guy who knows how the NPC client code works and there aren't any other resources available to put on that issue. Asking four prospect coders to work on the NPC client doesn't solve the problem any faster, perhaps the opposite.

This is a hobby project and people work on it only after they have done with all their real life work, families and everything else including playing some games. New developers come from the current player base and if you are a software developer, take a look at the sources and perhaps you are the extra resource that can be put on this issue

Without knowing the details, I guess the current issue is the change that made NPCs impervious when they get stuck to avoid people to lead NPCs to places where they can be easily killed. Might be that the code is too sensitive and makes NPCs impervious a little bit too early.

[MustangMR]

I can appreciate that Bereror.  But I also know a peer review of code and just putting a few eyes on a problem can solve a lot of issues, even if they don't know the code.  I've seen it and done it a thousand times in development.  A programmer can get so lost in the forest they simply cannot see the tree right in front of them.  They'll constantly overlook the simplest of errors, while a new set of eyes will spot it immediately.  Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, maybe it's already being done. 

Yes, I do know if I sit endurance regens faster.  I was assuming that the more precious gems and ores would require higher skills to acquire, but maybe I should just go for platinum.  Did not really know how it was implemented.

And I would be happy with nightly server resets to fix the issue.  I'm not trying to force the developers to sacrifice life and liberty for this, just trying to help come up with a solution that makes the game more enjoyable for everyone.

[Rizin]

I can appreciate that Bereror.  But I also know a peer review of code and just putting a few eyes on a problem can solve a lot of issues, even if they don't know the code.  I've seen it and done it a thousand times in development.  A programmer can get so lost in the forest they simply cannot see the tree right in front of them.  They'll constantly overlook the simplest of errors, while a new set of eyes will spot it immediately.  Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, maybe it's already being done. 

MustangMR,

Of course we appreciate the feed back, but these are things we are already doing. Working on NPC's is a top priority, that I can guarantee.

[Bereror]

@ MustangMR
http://planeshift.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/planeshift/trunk/

I'm serious, if you are a developer and have some free time to spare, take a look and help this project.

About nightly resets ... Would you reset your test server every night just to make sure that it keeps running? Or perhaps you would keep it running as long as possible to see what else goes wrong? By resetting it you may actually miss a lot of bugs that otherwise would show up.

Keep in mind that the server that you use for playing is not a production server. It is a test server and there is actually no production server at this time. When the number of online players reaches couple of thousands, it might make sense to create a production server for players who prefer a stable environment and keep the test server for those who like to try the latest and greatest, but right now there is only one server and it is the test server.

Without the critical mass of players, test servers don't give the necessary information. Players are just so creative finding new ways of crashing the server, or abusing bugs.

[Taniquetil]

There is a reason you have to rest every 20 feet. Look at your attributes. Yes, they actually do work and have an effect on the game. If you have a low Endurance, that is the reason. It's not a bug or a coming soon(tm) thing. They actually work. Also, it is not too hard to get your Endurance high enough so that it makes a difference. My completely new enki can run from Oja to Hydlaa (or vice versa) while only stopping once to rest. Even if you are more laden (new chars are not), you should be able to go a ways before resting.

[neko kyouran]

keep in mind if your pack is full, that also factors in to how long you can run before you have to rest. 
 

[Under the moon]

The issue is being worked on, but as said, there are not that many people to look at the code who are experienced enough with it to find the issues. The entire Dev team is relatively large for being made up of volunteers, but the lion's share are writers for Settings, artists for Art and Music, or other who can't work on the code. The problem will be fixed, but it will be fixed faster if we have more eyes on it.

[Khaki]

NPC disabling will now be disabled on Laanx to see if it fixes the issue. It's probably been responsible for some of the NPC problems as physical memory limits increases the amount of time spent moving each NPC.

[MustangMR]

@Bereror,

Working on it.  I will help out as best I can and try not to just complain about things.  I have a lot of respect for developers and in no way do I mean to belittle their efforts.  It's a great product you guys have pulled together.

But yes, if I had a clearly alpha product that I am letting volunteers and people alpha test for me, I would reset the server often.  In this case, the issue is taking away a significant part of the game for new players.  That's why I would recommend once a day.  At least every day people will know that it's a fresh start.  But if mobs do break, it does give people a chance to go off and explore other areas of the game and that's not a bad argument.  You need those parts tested too.  Apparently, this issue has been going on for several years now.  How many potential testers have you lost because of it?

EDIT: I would even agree that "breaking" the mobs on a regular schedule to force people to go off and do other things would be good for your testing, just so they know it's happening and not just some random bug.  Build in the capability to disable fighting for a few hours now and then.  The amount of time the server is left running is really arbitrary, do what needs to be done, but what I don't think you should do is let a major area of the game stay broken for longer than 24 hours. 

@resting,

Sure, I can understand needing to rest.  Maybe it's just the race I chose.  The elves seem pretty darn frail.  I agree with the concept, but I think the only issue I have is that walking takes too much energy.  I *really* want a penalty for running all the time, but everyone walks to rest when on a long journey.  They typically don't sit one minute for every minute they walk.  If the burn rate was just cut in half, it would help a lot.  And right now, the PP's for increasing endurance and strength are pretty high, even though my values are low.  Maybe they could be readjusted to encourage more points in them and make them higher as the skill gets higher? 

[Prolix]

The experience point system is kind of unrealistic at the moment, I have no doubt it will change eventually. The reward for a particular mob ought to be proportional to the difficulty the character has to slay it instead of just a static rate regardless of ability. Those rats in the sewer should give much better experience to beginner players than to fully developed ones but they do not. Ideally the xp reward would take into consideration amount of damage given and taken in the fight as well as duration of the fight instead of just the way it is. There is only so much experience you can gain from killing rats and once you can one-hit them with no danger to yourself they should be practically worthless instead of the current reward which is practically worthless regardless. Certainly a fight that risks a trip to the DR is more memorable than wholesale slaughter.

[MustangMR]

Totally agree with that, and like the ideas you suggested in there, Prolix.  What might be easier though is to gradually increase the amount of experience to get a PP.  That would save a lot of time readjusting all the mobs, I guess.  Just keep track of the total number of PP's earned and use that to determine how much experience is needed to get to the next one.  I'm still a newb though and getting one shot by anything much tougher than a rat or a thug.  Not sure how the experience for all mobs works out.