A solution we all want.

[Earowo]

SO.
we all know, that the monsters have gotten stronger, things like ulbers, trepors, gladiators, and the such, the things we USED to be able to enjoy killing, BUT, i just realized the solution to the problem.

Most high-ish skilled people in a combat, be it sword axe ect. CAN damage onyx daggers dlayos,, ulbers and whatnot, but end up getting kill in a hit or two.

This post is to encourage the devs to focus more on body development for player use., Obviously it WORKS, its just not trainable, monsters have body dev, and they have higher HP becuase of it. vvallace was even able to figure out 1 lv in body dev  gives 8 hp, thats his theory.

so why isnt it trainable to the public? i heard devs talking about spells realm 8 or so that can do 2000 damage, so we would need more health ANYWAY, now i dont know much about development, but i know since it works already, making it player trainable is the only thing left for it, so im just hoping it will get to work on soon, cus once thats implemented, people would stand more of a chance against the demonly ppowerful monsters and things.

-Thanks

[RlyDontKnow]

there's no such thing as realm 8 spells planned

anyway, the reason you cannot train it, yet, is because there's no suggestion *how* it should be trained - i.e. how would you get practice points.

[LigH]

Well ... stats requiring purely theoretical training is just as paradox. - Why don't we practice endurance while running for quests? Why don't we practice agility while dodging attacks? Why don't we practice strength while crafting or fighting? How is a Strength trainer able to build up muscles just by getting paid (for steroids?)? ... Sorry, I'm getting off-topic. Body Development is a completely different case, of course.
__

One of the most convenient solutions might be to grant partial practice of Body Development too while doing any kind of crafting or resource production which is related to physical efforts, like hammering, mining or harvesting. Even when the main training was not successful (because the physical efforts were done regardless of the success of the resource production).

If practicing two skills at the same time is impossible with the current structure of PlaneShift, then you might need to create a training hall (a Dojo) and practice "using" training utilities (either by finding any useful meaning of the - for years prepared but never seen working - "/use" command, or by adding another kind of zone based activity command in the group of "/dig", "/harvest", "/fish" - like "/workout").

I guess that Body Development will have a rather high practice/theory quotient, similar to Musical Instrument? ... Hmm, not at all, it's rather average.

[RlyDontKnow]

right... that's the plan. however the engine doesn't fully support that kind of training, yet.
e.g. you cannot award stat practice during work or while running. I recently started adding such support, but it *will* take some time for sure, as a lot of code has to be refactored to the script engine - i.e. hardcoding has to be removed

[Geoni]

I don't want this solution.

[Draklar]

I don't want this solution.

I think by "we" Earowo meant people that play Planeshift, Geoni.

LigH:

Why don't we practice endurance while running for quests?

Simple running won't improve your endurance in any considerable manner. It'll only keep you fit. When training your endurance you need to push yourself to your limit (usually by setting an ambitious yet achievable distance before you start running), which means after reaching the finish line, you'll need a really long rest to even walk + a day or two of muscle regeneration to go back to running. Not really an efficient way to run errands.

Why don't we practice agility while dodging attacks?

Agility training requires a really, really good warm-up and some caution. Even after a good warm-up one bad move can strain your muscles. You won't be doing warm-ups before every single encounter and you won't be that cautious during these either. So in such situation, if you attempt to do something your body isn't perfectly used to, that is very likely to end up not-so-well.

Why don't we practice strength while crafting or fighting?

Building strength works this way: You warm-up, then you give your muscles intense training, damaging them in the process. Then you give them 2-5 days (depending on how intense the training was) to regenerate. In the process of regeneration they become stronger. After regeneration you repeat the cycle. The workout needs to push you to the limits. Neither crafting nor fighting allows such situation.

Anyway, I believe Body Development should be trained by receiving damage.

[LigH]

Wonderful - you managed to answer all rhetorical questions (those who don't expect an answer)...

[Lanarel]

A solution we all SHOULD want, including Earowo, is a game that is not boring because everyone can kill everything after training for a week. Unfortunately that is not easy to do. Before all npcs were to weak. They were made stronger. MOre balancing will surely be done. Creating a button 'press this and you can kill everything again' is not the solution.

[Draklar]

LigH, I'm not answering. I'm making counter-statement.

[Maisent]

I don't think it is the body development thing that needs fixing. I think we should be able to kill a Dlayo Gladiator or a maulber (Last time I was in PS i was unable to hurt one, that need fixing i think.) or whatnot by skill and not just go to bloody mode then wait and stand there for you, or it, to be killed. There should be some movement involved like dueling, only if you try to duel- fight a monster, they always win because of their auto-attack, that is the feature i think should be fixed. Not everyone should be able to kill a maulber [cooks farmer etc.] But fast enkis, bandits etc. who have low level swords, but since they are fast, they should still be able to take down a maulbernaut.

[Bonifarzia]

From the point of view of a character that is well trained in combat, those mentioned enemies are not that impossible to defeat - thanks to the  NPC armor stats revised a few weeks ago.
Yes, you can duel dlayos and its actually fun to do so (-notice stances have a higher impact and their defense values are very low, so try a defensive stance and see.) As I explained in detail on flyspray, I see the problem in the other direction. Although we have some very nice new set of rules for the magic system, it is still far off balance in PvM, and this is the only reason why physical combat against mobs seems so much underpowered. By the way, thousands of HP from body development sounds like a big nogo for PvP.

[Earowo]

there's no such thing as realm 8 spells planned

well i dont remmeber what realm they said, but one of the Few times i've actually been on irc one of the devs said somthing bout some realm spell doing thousnads of damamge.

anyway, the reason you cannot train it, yet, is because there's no suggestion *how* it should be trained - i.e. how would you get practice points.

And there is always the expresion, what doesnt kill you, makes you stronger.
my idea of training body development is just taking damage, without dieing since all it does is raise health, spend health to gain health yes?

[Sangwa]

That makes sense. If you can train armour just by taking damage when wearing that armour, you should be able to train your body just by taking damage. Or if you can account for walking around, it could be also another way.

I don't think any one character should be able to kill a maulber. You've seen the size of that thing?

[LigH]

Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the Maulbernaut.

[Wavan Levironk]

Making the game harder for oldbies will make it a lot harder for newbies. I have been told there are levels like 190+ in red way because there was once a bug (or something like that). The final solution isn't making monsters harder to kill, but expanding the maps and making more powerful creatures there. I know it will require some time, but it's impossible to start the game just killing rats when others (like me) had the option of killing 6 PP rogues with very good loot in Ojaveda not so long ago.