About compasses in game or why you shouldn't use cardinal points.

[MishkaL1138]

There's no magnetism in Yliakum. Or there is, but it's practically useless for us because we live in a sucession of rings inside a stalactice. Hard to get lost that way: walk up to the ledge and then stroll along it.

Ojaveda isn't to the east. It's called like that because of East Stronghand. We call Upper Hydlaa "North" Hydlaa because it goes in an ALMOST 90ΒΊ degrees counterclockwise from E. Hydlaa. It's easier to call it Lower and Upper Hydlaa, because after all "North" Hydlaa is more elevated than "East" Hydlaa.

I hope this illustrates my point better:


Do you also go to Ojaveda and say, facing Brado, that Dsar Sarraghi is to the north, Dsar Akkaio is to the east, and Dsar Kore is to the west? No, right? Because it's stupid.

Also, where would a compass' needle point to? The Crystal? If you held the compass with the North facing forward, and walked counterclockwise, the needle would point to the West, and if you walked along the ring clockwise, the needle would point to the East.

Get over it: It's not easier to call it East and North. Look at the map. What we'd need would be a change in the players' mentalities, to make them realize how wrong they are when they use cardinal points inside Yliakum.

/rant

TL;DR: If you use Nort and West and such in game, I'll tilt my head and wonder where have you learned such strange words.

[Eonwind]

we've been building cities for over 2 thousands years around 2 crossing roads 90 degrees one from the other, one gate for each of the four directions, most (so close to always ) of the time no watter if the north gate was in fact NNW or NNE or what it was the North gate, and cardinal directions had nothing to do with magnetism until the first compass was created (not so long ago considering the whole human history)
So why reinventing the wheel all the time?

"To reach Ojaveda just go to the East gate and follow the road to the east until you reach the enki city"

[Venalan]

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=41170.msg462909#msg462909

[tman]

Just look at the map for the loading screen when you use the pterosaur.  If the top of the map is "North" then Ojaveda is "to the East" and the gate to the magic shop is the "North gate."

Whether or not there is a usable compass item in the game (which doesn't have to be magnetically powered, because, ya know, magic...) it still makes sense for locations to be laid out on some sort of grid.

[kiaerulf]

There is quest referring to at least north.

Fholen says: You should exit from Hydlaa going north which is the gate past Kada-El's tavern next to the windowless tower.

Many quests mention East Hydlaa.

Anyway, why would North, South, East, West necessarily have something to do with a magnetic compass (IC)? Surely people in Yliakum will be aware of the relative positions of things and just decided to call directions these names. I'm pretty sure there has always been a need for being able to place something relatively to something else when you tell other people about it. N, S, E and W just happens to be the names we use in RL too.
You could compare it to, say, a hammer. Why do poeple in Yliakum call it a hammer? It might as well be named a sploink, but it has a name related to the real world too.
That you relate it to compasses and magnetism is just OOC knowledge.

- Kia

[LigH]

Congratulations, Mishka, you exhumed the same dead horse once again...

Moderators, please close. We already mentioned possible solutions often enough.

[Volki]

There may be a magnetic field, but it obviously proves no use for the inhabitants of Yliakum. They would have no concept of north and south. In my opinion, it's also counter-intuitive for players to hear "north" and the other cardinal directions when they do not exist in-game. Why not create a directional system based on three dimensions?

The first dimension is distance from the Crystal. Measured in a straight line aiming down to the center of the lowest level. It might be more sensible to measure from a certain point on the ceiling of the stalactite, then treat it like a meniscus, since it would be difficult to measure the Crystal's exact dimensions. (I'm not sure if scientists in Yliakum are capable of this). Of course, most people would never need to use this dimension in their daily lives. Engineers would find it useful, however.

The second dimension is a degree. From 0 to 359, then back to 0. The zero degree should probably originate at a point of importance. The degrees increase in a clockwise direction. (This would make the most sense, I think.)

The third dimension is distance from a point in the line mentioned in the first dimension closest to you. This is how far you are to the edge of the level you are currently standing on.

For example: 520 km down, 107 degrees, 44 km out.

If you were 2 km down, 298 degrees, and at least several km out, you'd be climbing somewhere on the walls of Yliakum, very close to the ceiling.

If you were 700 km down, any number of degrees, and 0 km out, you'd be falling to your death in the ocean below.

If you were 0 km down, any number of degrees, and 0 km out, you'd be dead. (Inside the Crystal.)

Where this method fails is you cannot tell someone to simply go east or west; you'd have to give them a specific location, at least detailing the degrees and how many miles/km outward. But given the fact that Yliakum has no compasses, this is how they would manage, I believe. There would probably be a heavy reliance on maps, the shadows cast on objects by the Crystal, and general knowledge of landmarks. People who travel often would memorize the degrees and distance outward for many locations. Of course, players could probably use a minimap to speed things up.

[MishkaL1138]

We still use cardinal points!

Excuse me while I tilt my head and wonder what the hay are you talking about in game.

[tman]

In my opinion, it's also counter-intuitive for players to hear "north" and the other cardinal directions when they do not exist in-game.

Excuse me while I tilt my head and wonder what the hay are you talking about in game.

You guys are wrong.  The devs have said they do exist.  The NPCs use cardinal directions.  If you want to play a character that doesn't know how to read a map, that's your own deal.

[Rigwyn]

The truth is, we don't have the full story on the planet's properties or information on how a compas may have been made. We have some, but not necessarily all. While a magnetic compas seems unlikely, who's to say that there isn't some magic related explanation?  There's been lots of arguing about whether or not such a thing is possible despite this.

I don't use n,s,e,w because they are pretty useless. References to roads, landmarks,, left, right and distance seem far more practical to me.

[verden]

Continual arguing about something as simple as cardinal directions is one thing that really adds fun to this game, oh yeah. Since there is right and left, backwards and forwards, up and down then just let it go and have north, south, east and west. Having characters named for cardinal points and referencing locations by those names seems mean spirited considering the countless discussions over the years about this. I mean really, it's almost 2014 and this hasn't been put to rest yet?

[Volki]

You guys are wrong.  The devs have said they do exist.  The NPCs use cardinal directions.  If you want to play a character that doesn't know how to read a map, that's your own deal.

Too many inconsistencies. It's not efficient.

Moderators, please close. We already mentioned possible solutions often enough.

This is not an appropriate post. Unfortunately, there are several posts like this on this particular forum. It is not helpful to ask the mods to close a thread, especially not on a forum for a game in development, where people want to share their ideas. PM a moderator or use the report feature if you have an issue.

[SpidaManz111]

NECROMANZIES

[Kaerli_Stronwylle]

Quick and dirty fix for the "north gate/east gate" problem is to do what I've done and go with "forest gate/Oja gate", respectively.