16
PvP,PK and Thieving /
« on: December 23, 2003, 02:40:34 pm »
Interesting the level of response this has gotten so far. I appreciate the effort though.
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17
PvP,PK and Thieving /
« on: December 01, 2003, 07:47:11 pm »
Hmmm, and in a game with no classes, how do you qualify a ?thief ? weapon?
18
Wish list /
« on: October 20, 2003, 02:10:35 pm »
The current philosophy of the dev team is that your only requirement will be one of skill being the only requirement for weapon use.
Personally I think I would like it that it has no requirements, but it works better if you have the skills needed.
Personally I think I would like it that it has no requirements, but it works better if you have the skills needed.
19
Wish list /
« on: October 14, 2003, 01:49:35 pm »
In all reality, these are all worthy goals.
In essence making the spawns not really spawns but migratory and nomadic, have rat and insect nests with super fast incubation/gestation in many cases.
The major issue is unique naming and migratory with dynamic yet controlled locations and ends. (so 200 high end orcs are not suddenly in a newbie area as their new home)
This is all a desirable goal. But ATM well beyond our capabilities. Migration and tweaking of monster population in relation to player population and activity would be a wonderfull thing to figure out?but I?m not sure we can do that without a few years of data. Or by buying some data from games that already exist.
But in the end, perhaps a far off release will have many of the things you are asking for.
I just don?t think you realize the amount of effort that would need to be made to do it to where it works at all.
As for just having this happen with important mobs, this too would require that we have a long long set of replacements and set of quests based on each new set.
The sets can be randomly named (just not use character names)
All in all it can be done, but perhaps we should wait on the Pentium X :-)
In essence making the spawns not really spawns but migratory and nomadic, have rat and insect nests with super fast incubation/gestation in many cases.
The major issue is unique naming and migratory with dynamic yet controlled locations and ends. (so 200 high end orcs are not suddenly in a newbie area as their new home)
This is all a desirable goal. But ATM well beyond our capabilities. Migration and tweaking of monster population in relation to player population and activity would be a wonderfull thing to figure out?but I?m not sure we can do that without a few years of data. Or by buying some data from games that already exist.
But in the end, perhaps a far off release will have many of the things you are asking for.
I just don?t think you realize the amount of effort that would need to be made to do it to where it works at all.
As for just having this happen with important mobs, this too would require that we have a long long set of replacements and set of quests based on each new set.
The sets can be randomly named (just not use character names)
All in all it can be done, but perhaps we should wait on the Pentium X :-)
20
Wish list /
« on: October 14, 2003, 12:55:13 pm »
I?m not in favor of townships taxing people to enter the city, but sales rights (open up a shop) and buildings will need a tax, grounds fee, maintenance fee ?..of some type.
If not the place will be littered with empty shells of old guild houses as guilds fold, or as they become irrelevant. Prime locations will be littered with hovel guildhouses when major guilds want to move in.
With this concept, I would have no problem with guilds having some way to tax their members to get these fees?how, I would like enough of these options to be left to guilds that it is an issue for guilds to figure out how they do it.
Just my point of view.
If not the place will be littered with empty shells of old guild houses as guilds fold, or as they become irrelevant. Prime locations will be littered with hovel guildhouses when major guilds want to move in.
With this concept, I would have no problem with guilds having some way to tax their members to get these fees?how, I would like enough of these options to be left to guilds that it is an issue for guilds to figure out how they do it.
Just my point of view.
21
Wish list /
« on: October 13, 2003, 11:38:12 am »
If Player characters stayed dead?then I see no problem with monsters staying dead?but wait they don?t. and even if they did, player characters would respawn?hmmmm, but if we made a game where no new players characters where added for say 20 game time years (200 if playing an elf) and they where permanently killed then I think we could find a balance.
This would of course be because you have to take into account that there is a limited population of everything and it needs time to rebuild.
I don?t know why I responded to this other then I think people should truly think about what they ask for and possible repercussions.
No monster spawning, and no returning of monsters has been played around with a lot by the dev team. But if this is the case, then as players gain the upper hand on the monsters, there will be fewer and fewer places for newbie?s or midlevel to go?since all the high level people cleared them out. Not to mention what happens when the last monster is dead :-).
But in essence I agree that I would like and end to franchise RPGs, where everyone has almost the same experience playing the game. This is not the game to do it (yet) but also I do not think that the MMORPG is the place to do it?perhaps a NSMORPG (not so massive role playing game) with a server life span, might be the trick. The world has X amount of resources few replenish at all, and the ones that do are on a ?seasonal basis? of player abuse their resources, they don?t come back.
I think this idea has merit, but game servers would have a true life, in that they start at X and end at X, the appeal for many is shot in this. But if done right, it would be a legitimate type of game. The issue with this is that if players are not conscious of resource management. The server will die a quick death. And sign up for a certain server would probably only be 3 months and life of the server about 12 months real time.
Interesting idea, good idea for a Open Source project since this would not have great monetary appeal. And if done right, say 1000 accounts max. with some matrix so that players only have 2 characters per server and can be only on 3 servers at a time it might work?but you risk mass exodus when a new server is started and of one (other game) guild taking up all the slots.
Many difficult social issues that the program has no account of?but a nice idea.
This would of course be because you have to take into account that there is a limited population of everything and it needs time to rebuild.
I don?t know why I responded to this other then I think people should truly think about what they ask for and possible repercussions.
No monster spawning, and no returning of monsters has been played around with a lot by the dev team. But if this is the case, then as players gain the upper hand on the monsters, there will be fewer and fewer places for newbie?s or midlevel to go?since all the high level people cleared them out. Not to mention what happens when the last monster is dead :-).
But in essence I agree that I would like and end to franchise RPGs, where everyone has almost the same experience playing the game. This is not the game to do it (yet) but also I do not think that the MMORPG is the place to do it?perhaps a NSMORPG (not so massive role playing game) with a server life span, might be the trick. The world has X amount of resources few replenish at all, and the ones that do are on a ?seasonal basis? of player abuse their resources, they don?t come back.
I think this idea has merit, but game servers would have a true life, in that they start at X and end at X, the appeal for many is shot in this. But if done right, it would be a legitimate type of game. The issue with this is that if players are not conscious of resource management. The server will die a quick death. And sign up for a certain server would probably only be 3 months and life of the server about 12 months real time.
Interesting idea, good idea for a Open Source project since this would not have great monetary appeal. And if done right, say 1000 accounts max. with some matrix so that players only have 2 characters per server and can be only on 3 servers at a time it might work?but you risk mass exodus when a new server is started and of one (other game) guild taking up all the slots.
Many difficult social issues that the program has no account of?but a nice idea.
22
Wish list /
« on: October 10, 2003, 12:44:38 pm »Quote
Originally posted by Altharion
but this topic isnt about ruining playabilty its adding realism and that could mean for most people more fun.
This is the one area that I have to completely disagree; realism in game play is not what people really want. What people want is not always the same as what seems cool.
I am not going to go through the countless examples of ?realism that we don?t want in games.
Plus the ?someone says: bla bla bla? is not cool, in fact in reality we know many people we have never been introduced to before.
Being anonymous is not part of playing a game where the players are to be heroic. I am not saying good or evil, just larger then life.
To have anything like you want. People would have to have a reputation marker?and tracking who knows what about whom would be a pain. And remember it is estimated that almost everyone knows almost everyone else 6-8 times removed. Imagine an isolated place of 20,000 people or so. 2 or 3 times removed?
What you are wanting is the ability to be jerk and not be held accountable by the players for a bad reputation.
It is possible to do, but I don?t think it is worth doing, and it takes away far more then it adds to the game. Now to do it right (simulate real life?s social knowledge) would be far harder to do.
23
Wish list /
« on: October 09, 2003, 03:55:26 pm »Ya, we can have everyone have a different stance, and everyone?s gait. Not to mention millions of different font?s or voice variations.
The only way to allow that your name not be unique and not so obvious is to have other unique traits. I am not saying that they all have to be unique, but there has to be billions of trait combinations.
And that I am afraid we will not have in this game.
24
Wish list /
« on: October 08, 2003, 12:40:49 pm »
Ok, some clearing up.
Harwen-
I took absolutely no offence to what you said, I thought you took it in the same joking fashion I thought I conveyed?I keep forgetting the happy faces though?my bad.
Kuiper7986-
Joining a group is the same in most MMORPGs unless we find a better way.
Person invites (while not in battle) person accepts and they get a group shat bar and view a few of the others stats in minibar format.
To join or help a guy in a combat you do it out of the kindness of your heart?so you just do it, no joining in any way.
I?m not sure how to better describe it because it has been pretty standard in MMORPGS for a while now?hell even in D&D video games it is almost the same, but you have no control over the other members of your group.
Derwoodly-
One thing we will have to work out in game is how we deal with organizational tasks.
Do we want the leader of a group to be the only one to be able to invite or allow him to delegate, should the leader get exp just for organizing, even if he is not involved in the fight (not in our plans currently) but will probably be in some way, as it could also get exploited with leaders who are always in the center of the fray and not organizing.
The key is how we subdivide large groups and if we can have some way of showing ?sub-group status? as opposed to just show everyone in one large group.
Harwen-
I took absolutely no offence to what you said, I thought you took it in the same joking fashion I thought I conveyed?I keep forgetting the happy faces though?my bad.
Kuiper7986-
Joining a group is the same in most MMORPGs unless we find a better way.
Person invites (while not in battle) person accepts and they get a group shat bar and view a few of the others stats in minibar format.
To join or help a guy in a combat you do it out of the kindness of your heart?so you just do it, no joining in any way.
I?m not sure how to better describe it because it has been pretty standard in MMORPGS for a while now?hell even in D&D video games it is almost the same, but you have no control over the other members of your group.
Derwoodly-
One thing we will have to work out in game is how we deal with organizational tasks.
Do we want the leader of a group to be the only one to be able to invite or allow him to delegate, should the leader get exp just for organizing, even if he is not involved in the fight (not in our plans currently) but will probably be in some way, as it could also get exploited with leaders who are always in the center of the fray and not organizing.
The key is how we subdivide large groups and if we can have some way of showing ?sub-group status? as opposed to just show everyone in one large group.
25
Granted or negated Wishes /
« on: October 07, 2003, 06:35:56 pm »Quote
Originally posted by Vengeance
Perhaps we need a spell that will summon someone to you, cast by a group of 5 or more, or something like that.
Can we call it the ?Red Rover? spell?
* As paxxs? memories of kindergarten seep through and he sings ?red rover red rover, send Vengeance right over? ?man I find that truly disturbing.
Can we call it the ?Red Rover? spell? *As paxxs? memories of kindergarten seep through and he sings ?red rover red rover, send Vengeance right over? ?man I find that truly disturbing.
[Edit] the thing that I was thinking of my days in kindergarten I find disturbing, not the spell.
26
Wish list /
« on: October 07, 2003, 01:53:27 pm »
Etra, that is almost the same as just having random loot among the party.
The trick in most cases is allowing the people who get the most out what drops, but if creature X usually drops things for warrior centric groups?should the mages be there just out of good will and never get anything?
So, we go back to random exchange?one group member loots and it distributes randomly to all?
I?m sure we will try a few different things.
The pi?ata is just to illustrate the different way to deal with a major creature that requires many people to kill dyeing.
The trick in most cases is allowing the people who get the most out what drops, but if creature X usually drops things for warrior centric groups?should the mages be there just out of good will and never get anything?
So, we go back to random exchange?one group member loots and it distributes randomly to all?
I?m sure we will try a few different things.
The pi?ata is just to illustrate the different way to deal with a major creature that requires many people to kill dyeing.
27
PvP,PK and Thieving /
« on: October 07, 2003, 11:43:46 am »
This is a difficult issue, in most cases we would want the character to defend its self but not always. Auto running away is not an option. Cause we might sends you from the pot into the fire, and lastly instant log off?
Um so if I am about to die, I just pull my network cable, or deactivate my network connection? :-)
It is one of the oldest network game exploits there is for these types of games?not happening.
Um so if I am about to die, I just pull my network cable, or deactivate my network connection? :-)
It is one of the oldest network game exploits there is for these types of games?not happening.
28
Granted or negated Wishes /
« on: October 07, 2003, 11:37:48 am »
Yes, Trains are something we have not spoken about, and we will see if we can have a few in CB :-).
But all in all it is not about empty content, it is about content for many different purposes. An area that is for farming and or animal grazing, herb collecting, is not going to be infested with uber demons and little river goblins, it might have a few river goblins. But for most people the place has no use other then to pass.
It is kind of like mining towns. You drive right pass them and noone cares or knows about them other then miners.
I would like an efficient use of space, but at the moment the grandiose factions of the dev team are winning out.
I think having a place about the size of the marrowwind area would be ok to start, but we will be about 9 times the size I think.
As far as teleport system, some regulations should exist and a changing price/ or quick task for a teleport might be the right thing?but in the end I think this game should be playable in 2-4 hour chunks. And if that is not enough to get to where you are going and completing one stage of an average quest, something is wrong.
But all in all it is not about empty content, it is about content for many different purposes. An area that is for farming and or animal grazing, herb collecting, is not going to be infested with uber demons and little river goblins, it might have a few river goblins. But for most people the place has no use other then to pass.
It is kind of like mining towns. You drive right pass them and noone cares or knows about them other then miners.
I would like an efficient use of space, but at the moment the grandiose factions of the dev team are winning out.
I think having a place about the size of the marrowwind area would be ok to start, but we will be about 9 times the size I think.
As far as teleport system, some regulations should exist and a changing price/ or quick task for a teleport might be the right thing?but in the end I think this game should be playable in 2-4 hour chunks. And if that is not enough to get to where you are going and completing one stage of an average quest, something is wrong.
29
Wish list /
« on: October 06, 2003, 05:08:40 pm »
Derwoodly, there has been a lot of thinking on this. And in reality it will be one group, and later with sub groups, what this means is the overall leader will be able to sub divide his party up. You could have say 10 groups, each with a nuker, healer, thief and fighters?or there will be groups of healers, nukers, heavy infantry, light infantry and scouts? it will be up to the leader to choose how, and up to the user to see what info they want?if they want the status if subgroup B then they get subgroup B and all their vitals.
Also we have in the plans for group heals to not be centered on the caster but around the target?so healing at range will be possible at higher levels.
At least that is what we have on paper :-)
The big issue is group and subgroup designation.
On the, loot issue, that will be worked out, we will have loot that is only good for guilds, temporary loot?that you might as well use ASAP, money that goes to everyone involved?and other stuff. But the dragon dropping one thing is bad.
The better idea is the dragon drops 500 things and it is like a pi?ata of good stuff, but only one or two great things.
Also a list of everyone in the group and what they looted keeps people honest to a degree.
Since you can?t lie about not getting something, when everyone saw the text saying you did take it.
Also we have in the plans for group heals to not be centered on the caster but around the target?so healing at range will be possible at higher levels.
At least that is what we have on paper :-)
The big issue is group and subgroup designation.
On the, loot issue, that will be worked out, we will have loot that is only good for guilds, temporary loot?that you might as well use ASAP, money that goes to everyone involved?and other stuff. But the dragon dropping one thing is bad.
The better idea is the dragon drops 500 things and it is like a pi?ata of good stuff, but only one or two great things.
Also a list of everyone in the group and what they looted keeps people honest to a degree.
Since you can?t lie about not getting something, when everyone saw the text saying you did take it.
30
Granted or negated Wishes /
« on: October 06, 2003, 05:00:16 pm »
Random events goes against the persistent world concept?except if you are talking random in the sense of?well I at low power just happened to come across a dragon crossing the road as he decided he was hungry.
As far as movement, the flying creatures are currently not in and we are still not sure how they will be implemented, as a generic bus (as the horses in DAOC ) or independent movement. And if we truly animate all of this then we need to go with a very effective LOD system. And we will have that eventually, but until we have Arial combat in a meaningful way it is not going to happen.
But supposing you have flight?well then you need to put your flying creature in a stall, and then move out to where ever it is you are going (unless you want your flyer to be eaten when you get back), not to mention that flyers will not be cheap.
I guess what I am stating is, are you willing to fun/fly/climb for 3 hours to get from place to place. In the example I gave of 20 miles, was a realistic distance, I was not even speaking of changing levels and such?or once we get to the labyrinth?in all the mmorpg?s I have played, I usually spent the first trip on foot (doing it till I figured out how) and then used the rapid form?well in EQ I had gone from Freeport to Quanos and back at least 20 times (No SoW) and that was dedicating some serious time (around 2 hours or more, as long as I did not die)
I really do not think I as an experienced player of MMORPGs would be able to tolerate that again.
As far as secrete passages :-)?in todays internet age, a mmorpg has no secrete passages, only secrete to the people who have not looked online for them.
I figure that before we are in ?beta? most of the maps will already be online?with secrete passages included.
I am not trying to douse your thoughts of what a MMORPG should be, only that you need to really think of what one would be in a huge world and no rapid transit, not to mention starting towns far apart from each other.
Now I do not want commerce to be driven in rapid transit, but small stuff?oh,ya. I am already burnt out on it from EQ and DAOC, I won?t have it here or in any new game I play.
Now it might be rapid only to select places and in a convoluted way?but it will be rapid.
As far as movement, the flying creatures are currently not in and we are still not sure how they will be implemented, as a generic bus (as the horses in DAOC ) or independent movement. And if we truly animate all of this then we need to go with a very effective LOD system. And we will have that eventually, but until we have Arial combat in a meaningful way it is not going to happen.
But supposing you have flight?well then you need to put your flying creature in a stall, and then move out to where ever it is you are going (unless you want your flyer to be eaten when you get back), not to mention that flyers will not be cheap.
I guess what I am stating is, are you willing to fun/fly/climb for 3 hours to get from place to place. In the example I gave of 20 miles, was a realistic distance, I was not even speaking of changing levels and such?or once we get to the labyrinth?in all the mmorpg?s I have played, I usually spent the first trip on foot (doing it till I figured out how) and then used the rapid form?well in EQ I had gone from Freeport to Quanos and back at least 20 times (No SoW) and that was dedicating some serious time (around 2 hours or more, as long as I did not die)
I really do not think I as an experienced player of MMORPGs would be able to tolerate that again.
As far as secrete passages :-)?in todays internet age, a mmorpg has no secrete passages, only secrete to the people who have not looked online for them.
I figure that before we are in ?beta? most of the maps will already be online?with secrete passages included.
I am not trying to douse your thoughts of what a MMORPG should be, only that you need to really think of what one would be in a huge world and no rapid transit, not to mention starting towns far apart from each other.
Now I do not want commerce to be driven in rapid transit, but small stuff?oh,ya. I am already burnt out on it from EQ and DAOC, I won?t have it here or in any new game I play.
Now it might be rapid only to select places and in a convoluted way?but it will be rapid.