Author Topic: BWAHAHA  (Read 768 times)

paxx

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
BWAHAHA
« on: April 06, 2003, 04:58:15 am »
If not made apparently clear in the last couple of weeks, some of the devs on the team including myself have become in the eyes of some, somewhat petulant.

I am not saying this is correct though I understand the issue, mainly because I have made the conscious decision sometime ago to not entertain much of the people on this forum in debates of whether a certain thing should be included in the game or not.

I have also noticed some of my companions in the dev team have also begun acting in similar manners.

The causes of this may be multiple, one is the fact that for many of us our countrymen and in many cases friends and or those of loved ones are in harms way, be it for good or ill. Another is simply that we recently accomplished a pretty major threshold in development, and yet find that most of our time is in keeping people happy. Yet another reason is the sense that we have a duty to you.

The truth is in reality all of us are doing this during our free time, and often in our not so free time. Our social lives have suffered and often we have been fustigated pissed and disillusioned.

Our motivations for this are as diverse as our origins, for my part, I love the concept, I love the ideal, and I would love the sense of accomplishment.

Other then a few people who look at this as possible resume padding, none on the team realistically see this as something that will provide us any economic gains, in reality it is the opposite, we have lost sleep, I have lost weight (I am not as fit as I was when I started this) and I am sure at least 5 grey hairs are a result of this project.

The reason for this post is not sympathy or to have any sycophant like responses. It is simply to inform our ?fan base? that for some of us on the dev team (I speak only for myself but I assume others are in the same boat) there is a growing indignation towards some on this forum. As such, the perceived need to be polite and accommodating has left many of us. Is this to say that we will tell off anyone for anything, no, not likely. This is however the truth as to how we may react to stupid comments.

One thing that is regrettable about Links banishment is that he is not here to put some people in their place, the problem in reality with Link that he often was rude and out of place, but for one of the devs to ask someone to program their demands of how things should be done is entirely appropriate. Many of us on the dev team don?t put fixed demands on people, much less do we do it when we have not contributed anything to move things forward.

For those wishing to contribute, with programming or other skills such as creative writing and 3D modeling contact the appropriate people. If they do not respond, keep plugging and ask the rest of us to help, do some examples of work and e-mail us. If we still fail to respond, I can not say much other then we are busy. However if we say we can not use your skills at this moment, accept it. There are other similar projects out there and while I would hate to lose a good comrade moving this project forward, other projects help to motivate us and move us onward so you help us indirectly.

To summarize,
If you feel you can make demands on this team and not contribute you are wrong, if you just what to whine, gripe and moan about the direction of things in this project, I?d say you can kiss my, well I?ll maintain some decency and instead say we will most likely ignore you.
One of the great things about a non commercial entity that is not getting much economic support is for now we can be as blunt as we feel we need to be.  
           

Edit was to remove bitch as it appears as peanut?those of you who know know, the others (the first peanut is an insulting slang word that in non slang refers to a female dog, I used it in the common vernacular as a substitute got nagging or complaining, it is now Gripe, and I corrected of to off.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2003, 06:27:52 am by paxx »
-Paxx

Mehallie

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 121
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2003, 05:49:18 am »
If I may ask without being facetious; just what exactly does a developer consider a stupid question?

I am not a programmer.  I know nothing about computers.  I write on them and they put my words on paper when I press \"print\".  That is the extent of my computer knowledge.  Therefore there are things about programming and code that are completely utterly over my head, and I end up having to ask a lot of questions either of people in MB or of my husband (which I try to avoid as he usually starts getting excited about the subject and veers off into acrynyms that go on for about half the alphabet...oh dear he saw me type that *suck up time imminent*).

(Edit by husband: Actually she knows a fair bit more than the average user - and usually only needs help with something completely new and strange or if something goes badly wrong - now if only my dad had the same ability...)

Now,  of course I would consider asking a question that has been asked a dozen times (i.e. game specs, release date, etc etc) as coming into the stupid question category, as a forum search would probably reveal the answer to those who look.  However, there are other questions that, as a non-tech person, I cannot answer.  While I appreciate that the developers are under some strain and the whole of PlaneShift is a thankless project, I am utterly incapable of understanding code.  So, when I may ask a question that seems utterly ridiculous in its simplicity, it may result in getting a terse reply without me understanding what in the world I said to garner such a reaction.

I do the same with grammatical errors and spelling as you may have noticed, but even then I try to word things in a non-offensive manner and offer to lend a hand.  I\'m aware that there are those who merely wish to demand that developers do a certain thing (the whole PvP nonsense for example) and will kick and scream even when told no.  (My husband suggests sending them to /dev/null, and I have no idea what that means but I\'m sure it has you lot snickering *nods and smiles again like a good wifey*)    

Now...my offer; if it would help keep repetitive questions from boring people silly, I will volunteer to put together a F.A.Q.  that perhaps can be stuck somewhere on the forum or website.  Perhaps the really adamant will ignore even this, but at least it would be there, and your ire at stupid questions may be justified.  Conversely, for all of us non-tech folks that don\'t know what the right questions ARE to get the right answers we need may also be aided, and may prevent the small shock of getting a rather annoyed reply without understanding what brought it on.

Right, I think that\'s my bit said.  TTFN!

Mehallie

paxx

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2003, 06:16:52 am »
Thank god people like you exist, as I often feel the world deserves to end (for the people in the back that was a half joke, meaning that I would not be opposed to deleting 90% of the posts on this board).  

Anyway  questions are not an issue, in fact many times questions give insight into things we may have forgotten or not thought about. As far as specking things out?hard to do, we are not commercial and as such have little motivation in making the game incredibly accessible, it will take what it takes.  That is not saying we hope it does not take too much but if it is about looking cool and not running on a 3 year old computer, we will go with eye candy.

The issue really is more about incessant whining and demands. It gets tiring after a short time. While many of the official MMORPG forums for commercial games have the same amount of dribble, I find it hard to see why we bother sometimes to have the forum, other then we find somewhat talented and stupid people willing to obsess on this project through the forums (I became a dev member after an invite through here).

Speaking of ?how much time do you have on you hands :-)

I am not a programmer, though I know a bit through osmosis.

To summaries it is not questions that are annoying, it is asking why we chose to do things as we are doing them instead of the way someone here would like them done, and no added info, or cause and effect and or pro?s and con?s given. I would love that this project focused on PK, would make many things easy, but the powers that be chose to go the long rout, end of story.

Hope this helps clear up your confusion?I?ll reread my post and perhaps edit the confusion based on asking questions.        
-Paxx

Mehallie

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 121
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2003, 12:34:13 pm »
Quote


Speaking of ?how much time do you have on you hands :-)
     



The truth?  About six months, as unfortunately I\'m thinking I may be in indoors in bed or otherwise incredibly sedentary for the remainder of my pregnancy.  

I am offering some small assistance in other areas of the PS project, and still hoping to have a crack at the creative writing team positions as well, but as I\'ve said; time I have.

Offer me up what you will, and if I think I can do the project a service, I shall do what I can to help.  

Kiern

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2680
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2003, 01:34:58 pm »
Quote
Originally posted by paxx


The issue really is more about incessant whining and demands. It gets tiring after a short time.


umm...this whining and demands have been going on ever since you guys have had the boards, which has been for a LONG time now, I don\'t see why now your all getting pissed at people (not that I think it\'s wrong) I might have missed it somewhere in your post...but why now?  

I don\'t see how the posts are any different than when before, except for subject matter (when will we get the tech demo, where now its when will you fix the tech demo)

Here\'s another question I have (while i\'m at it) ...where are the PR guys?  I mean, I only know 2, is that all there is?  I\'m just wondering because it\'s their job for dealing with the public (not just magazine\'s etc. but for the fans too) and Venge is doing more of their job then they are, as are the other devs who visit here (such as you)

paxx

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 312
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2003, 02:42:29 pm »
Great questions Kiern.

Why now?oh, I?ll say it is mainly 2 things Lack of sleep and 24 hour war coverage putting things in a different perspective. The new releases add strain on the team in that everyone is doing too much at the same time. You add to it that among the dev team there is this real sense of accomplishment and the forums only get worse (however I think that is to be expected)

The odd thing is that the questions on how do I get this to work don?t bother us too much, it is the ?make this a FPS? ?sorry not our goal? ?why not it would be so much cooler that way? blab bla bla, however that to is to be expected, I am not sure the root cause other then overload and seeing this as a hobby instead of an obsession once again, and hobbies are supposed to be fun and semi relaxing.

As for Venge?who knows but I suspect similar reaction

Other devs on the forum, some are on, most look at it but keep to specific issues and not much other then that. Mostly the dev team uses the forums to laugh at some of the stupid comments from people who try and talk semi big, I am not big on it cause I over react to it.

PR?great question. We have mostly a few members, we had a large team that was more trouble then what they where worth because we tried to have them be useful, when we should of just had them mod the boards. The getting them to find new devs was pointless. So bad move on our part perhaps.

Also my feeling is this forum serves only two purposes, to find diamond in the ruff devs and tech support, the occasional really good idea pops from reading the forum, but it seems to happen less often of late.

The fan base is something I personally think is more trouble then it?s worth, but others disagree. The fan base is a weird necessary evil. Would the game be where it is without the forum, not at all. What has the forum provided of late, a couple decent devs.

But if we deleted 90% of the posts I feel we could still of had them :-)

Anyway I am getting pissed at myself for my incessant whining, stepping away from the forum for another long hiatus seem appropriate.

Thanks for the questions, allowed me to figure out some things.
-Paxx

Kinoss

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 203
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2003, 02:58:43 pm »
I\'m sorry, I am affected by this post I mean no harm to any devs. I dont want them to get mad at me or hate me for how I am and how I respond. I get angry and upset sometimes, but please dont take it too personally. Sure there are times when I have told the devs that they are ignoring us and all their replies are negative, but that is what I have seen so far im not trying to be mean or rude. I just want to see the lighter side of the devs, where are the replies that are light hearted and funny, the replies that say \"nice idea here is how it would work...\", where are the replies that say your a good friend? They are nowhere the devs havent responded like that in a long time, possibly never. If you dont like what we post dont spaz out and get angry at us because a spark becomes a fire that way. Just calmly say tell us the answer, whether it is stupid or not. Tell us that our ideas need more perfection and we are doing a good job at contributing our ideas. As for the members of the forums, Please try and go easy on them. They have worked very hard obviously and they need a lot of help. If a dev responds with a negative comment about you or your idea try and respond to that negativeness with kindness. I know, I know, It is hard sometimes because that negativeness is about you and how they think you really are. The devs have worked really hard and they deserve a good reply from someone just as much as anyone else does. They are human too you know! I suppose I am most guilty of being mean to the devs, and im sorry for it. Hopfully we can put aside our disputes and unkind words and start off again as more than just a fan:dev relationship, but more of good friends who help each other. I feel better now, I hope that I have done some good now. I will personally try and be more kind and gentle hearted to all people, whether they be the devs or a noob who is asking a stupid simple to ask question. I hope you try too.

Cyonamie

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 595
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2003, 04:36:56 pm »
The developers may be caused by stress to release a new version of game, but realize too, that the fans get stressed.  I sit in the IRC chat often as more and more planeshift fans come in with questions about how to fix their game etc.  Often I run into dense people who do not listen to my instructions and result in a head ache and screaming at the wall because it is the only thing that listens to me.  Stupid questions often get stupid answers, I guarentee atleast 6 times a day someone comes in and asks if they have to download all of the parts. I may not seem like too bright of a person on the forums, but my programming knowledge is pretty extensive and I understand the concepts of machine language and I have a vague knowledge of some assembly programming.  C++ has been my main interest in recent years but I struggle with math and often programming can confuse me.


cmhitman

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 505
    • View Profile
(No subject)
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2003, 01:01:42 pm »
*had to use online dictionary atleast three time while reading this thread  :)

here, let me break it down for the \"stupid\" people

1. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=petulant
annoyed
2. http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=facetious
kidding
« Last Edit: April 08, 2003, 01:09:18 pm by cmhitman »
PROUD [SOLE]    HITMAN CLAN WILL RISE AGAIN!