PlaneShift
Gameplay => Wish list => PvP,PK and Thieving => Topic started by: Swartt on August 22, 2010, 02:55:49 am
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I'm pretty new at the game so I'm not sure if you can already do this or not but you should be able to do PVP on the roads leading to different locations without having to request a duel, it could promote a lot of different things like highway men, people actually hiring other people as "body guards" and such you could do RP's to where it's like a band of mercenaries trying to ambush a rich merchant, the RP'ing opportunities with it are just absolutely endless.
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From the dev perspective, there'd be more whining than the update would be worth. While I would enjoy having no-request-required PvP in certain areas, I can see it has baggage.
In any case I think this topic has been discussed many times on the forum.
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if it has once again sorry, but I do really like the idea of it, if your on a quest or just wish to not be bugged there could be an option to make it duel request only for those that are trying to get somewhere exc.
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Hi, there.
You can put your client on "auto accept challenge", which will do more or less what you asked for. :)
To access the ingame options, press "o", then go to "pvp" -> "confirmation".
Best,
Minks
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this has been brought up before, last time i heard it, they thought the idea best fit for the ezpc server, and not so much acceptable for the Rp server, there are several PVP zones in various places though, and you can try and fiddle with the bugs ;)
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Roleplay the fights, don't spam duel.
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Yeah Swartt, your objective could still be achieved using RP; yet you should keep in mind that there are different styles of RP on the RP server at the moment when it comes to combat. You may be interested to check out a thread created by me to discuss just that via:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37719.msg430529#msg430529
Regardless of which style is excepted by those who are stopped; it is my feeling that very few would simply ignore you and continue on their way without acknowledgement that a robbery is being attempted. Just try some tells to then using the square brackets to set things up. You may want to tell them in OOC that you would prefer to play it out PvP. You can also place your desired mode of combat in your OOC tab of your character's description. Mine explains that in the very least 1d6 dice rolls will be required. (And yes my character would gladly except your terms of a PvP; and she has before on the road east from Hydlaa.). ;)
- Nova
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I agree PvP open fully in the wilderness just to get more different types of RP going. I think that maybe having another PvP option in which the player can choose to allow PvP in the wilderness or in the city or whatever.
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Mine explains that in the very least 1d6 dice rolls will be required.
One experience I have had that troubles me is that some people will join an on-going RP and demand that the method of RP combat change -- in the middle of a fight -- to suit their particular styles, regardless of what the previous players had agreed to.
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Mine explains that in the very least 1d6 dice rolls will be required.
One experience I have had that troubles me is that some people will join an on-going RP and demand that the method of RP combat change -- in the middle of a fight -- to suit their particular styles, regardless of what the previous players had agreed to.
Depends what you mean by on-going Sluuph. My assumption is that you are referring to Venorel and Sluuph's disagreement at Ahriman's botched wedding? If that is the case then the bride, not you, invited me OOC a number of days prior. IC an invitation was left at the Keda bar for when Venorel next checked in from Oja. Venorel arrived at the location given in the invitation only to find that Sluuph and Ahriman has raced away with the wedding party because they wished to ignore the magic of Qata.
Upon finding them in the square at a certain point Venorel thrust both her longswords into Ahriman's back only to have him RP a paper cut. 1d6 rolls were then asked for ooc. That request can also be found in Venorel's ooc desc. That was rebuffed by Sluuph and ignored by Ahriman.
It seemed to me that game mechanics were the last resort so Venorel tried to challenge Sluuph finding she had that mechanic completely shut down. When asked ooc after the event Sluuph was then more than ready to except a challenge; in fact sounded like she welcomed it; claiming to be a great duelist.
Need I post the logs for all this or are we on the same page?
If you call what happened in the plaza RP then we are on different pages. It was a staged inprov storyline that had a fixed ending and anyone that got in its way was ignored or left behind. It is my feeling that it was staged by Sluuph and Ahriman to have him charged with slavery and thus perma death. Why, IC, Sluuph had waited more than a game cycle to bring it up is all too obvious.
It is my feeling as a player that the intent was to have Ahriman suffer the rath of some GMs and the community taking the flak off the real offender, Ahriman's player himself.
Sluuph's conspiracy in this made her look like a false Daughter of DoX in my eyes, brawling in the streets and defending one who had placed her into slavery and worse.
Step down off your drifter or whatever high horse your on at the moment and think about it will ya?
- Nova
[ Edit - P.S. If you don't want other players involvement and their style of RP then have such events in an out of the way quiet spot; not in the middle of the bloody Hydlaa Plaza for the love of Talad! ]
[ Edit - P.P.S. Just to make clear my involvement in this ongoing RP - Leicace (the bride to those that don't know) and Venorel are agreed childhood friends. Agreed upon the day that Leicace was created. Their past goes back beyond Venorel's actual PS creation. Ahriman is the only other character, up till now, in PS which Venorel has a real grudge. She has already killed him once and had vowed to remove his manhood before sending him to Dakkru the next time. So whose ongoing RP was it exactly that Venorel interrupted? ]
[ Edit - P.P.P.S .... or who interrupted hers for OOC reasons? ]
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The Developers already came to the very wise conclusion that in a roleplay game all players involved in an action should agree to what is going on. If they don't, they can choose not to participate on said action.
So with fighting it's the same. Else you could have people simply killing you on the road for no apparent reason (with no engagement warning and no actual objective) which is a lot more unpleasant than having someone ignoring your challenge. Just persist until you find a good player and you should be fine.
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I haven't checked on Camp Banished in a while, is the PVP feature of that area no more?
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There is still PvP in Camp Banished. There is also another PvP area on that same map.
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Upon finding them in the square at a certain point Venorel thrust both her longswords into Ahriman's back only to have him RP a paper cut.
You have to remember that in an encounter with several people attacking one person, everyone involved needs to give that player the time to respond. What happens consistently is that people will just walk up to the dispute and start casting spells and thrusting swords, without even taking the time to understand what is really going on. Most of the time those actions end up making little sense because when the player being attacked responds to an action that was taken prior to theirs, it usually removes him from the situation that the latter person attacked under, as was the case with Venorel. Ven just suddenly attacked Ahriman as she walked up to the encounter, and he was in the middle of flying towards someone else, which he still responded to as a glancing cut that caused a lot of bleeding.
My point is just this: When someone is being attacked by a mob in an encounter, we all need to slow down and not just barrel into the frey with swords flying. Just give the person a chance to respond to each action, and not thirteen others while they are responding to the first. We should also make some effort to understand the situation and make our actions make sense for our characters in that particular encounter.
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It was completely clear what was going on in that little charade. It was to have Ahriman, the character, take the flak for the player. The goal was to have the guards arrest him for slavery and anything short of that was not going to be excepted. Why, otherwise, stage this in the Hydlaa plaza? Why have Sluuph suddenly decide to lay charges after a cycle and her having been out of his charms for months? Why have Sluuph defend him from getting his manhood cut off and sending him to Dakkru?
To have him arrested for slavery and perma killed to deflected gm and community hostility towards the player.
The quiet place that had been alluded to in my previous post would not have provided the biggest dupes to the charade.... the guards themselves.
It is simply not true about Venorel. She was brought into the action and stood in front of Leicace ready to defend her for many numbers of actions by others. After a number of actions; and with Ahriman turning his back to her; she thrust her longsword. The action was acknowledged almost immediately. We can simple post the logs if an attempt to twist what happened is the goal here. Perhaps on another thread?
- Nova
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We can simple post the logs if an attempt to twist what happened is the goal here. Perhaps on another thread?
I think we can agree on that. The summary was posted here:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37921.0
We can take this discussion there, as it seems to be a bit off-topic.
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Hmmm, an incomplete summary at that.
The points that novacadian makes which caught my attention, were those of a daughter of DoX not quite becoming of a DoX daughter and that of summarily excluding some good alternatives to the scripted plot.
Much of the violence and showcasing by Sluuph, not becoming of a daughter could have had an interesting alternative. In fact Qata did cast Magic Sleep on to Ahriman (omitted from the summary). This spell is a fourth realm spell not likely to have the natural resistance of the Diaboli as some of the basic spells (read the settings.) This would have at least caused enough drowsiness so that the others could capture him and call the guards while minimizing the violence. This scenario might have preserved the following of Xiosia's ways by the daughters giving a much more settings compliant RP.
I believe points make herein and by novacadian can productively add to the quality of any PvP scenario.
Oh and Venorel, enjoy your new blessed weapons.
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Hmmm, an incomplete summary at that.
Perhaps the moderator will move these unrelated posts to the correct thread, where I will be quite anxious to respond.
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I hope he does. No one cares about your silly disputes around here.
So there are areas where PvP exists without challenge? Hmmm. I gotta check those out.
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Camp Banished has been in there for *quite* a while.
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I hope he does. No one cares about your silly disputes around here.
:offtopic:
The decision of the court is fully excepted by me. The trial made up for any complaint of lack of RP mentioned by me. My apologies... nuff said.
On Topic: Yes the Banished Camp and Platinum Mines are thought to be PvP areas.
- Nova
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Platinum Mines are thought to be PvP areas.
"Thought to be" <--keywords.
The platinum mines used to be the place where many powerlevelers gathered, their entire guild working together along with their mules for days on end in hopes of getting tons of platinum. Of course there were exceptions to the generalization. You could easily expect PvP to happen in such a place. Hence why it is "thought to be".
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You might find these threads interesting:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=29759.0
Corresponding feature request on flyspray:
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/flyspray/index.php?do=details&task_id=2538
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=34261.0
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=35249.0
These are very old posts and I think that they do not reflect the community's view nor the settings view anymore. But before you start the argument all over again, you might get some ideas and impressions there.
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I agree PvP open fully in the wilderness just to get more different types of RP going. I think that maybe having another PvP option in which the player can choose to allow PvP in the wilderness or in the city or whatever.
[reviving.]
I want to second this opinion, Id like to allow other players to attack me in unguarded zones - without kill confirmation and the need to challenge. At the same time i dont want autoaccept on duels since in towns im often afk or relying on the guards to protect me when moving around without weapons. Auto Accept on duels will never get a "default enabled" flair for such reasons - its just unconvenient to turn on and off every time you enter or leave a town. A general PvP-flag for such zones, maybe activated by default, could.
I read around a little bit and i didnt spot solid arguments against such an option. But maybe i missed them?
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I know I'm necroing this thread but I also think this should be implemented, it would add some needed substance to role playing evil.
Here's how it could be implemented:
- Players who wish to ambush others enable pvp(Aggressor)
- guards will be patrolling the main roads between cities and will attack an aggressor in combatmode
You can then add things like wanted status with rewards, good/evil points and so on.
By doing this you get both, relative safety for people who do not wish to be instagibbed or ambushed, and people who wish to create disorder and attract goody-two-shoes can do this too, you can adjust the amount of guards depending on players with history aggressive pvp behavior, there will always be 1 or 2 guards in patrol and more could spawn in case of combat to not give away if there are any of these players in the area. This way guards can be fought as well.
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Well, I don't know about implementing new guard NPCs, but there are open PvP areas in game now. They aren't just outside of city gates though. However there is one good place in particular for Evil/baddie players to hang out that probably doesn't get enough love, I think it still open PvP. :whistling:
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So if I read this right, given this solution, all players would be vulnerable to pvp. They would need to rely on guards (and hopefully watch towers) to protect them from getting one-shotted from a very long distance or gutted up close.
I'm not sure if you were still playing when the pvp server(ezpc) was set up, Peacer. The entire server was ooc open pvp. You could say anything you wanted and just chop people down willy nilly. As I recall, it did not exactly pass the test of time and was eventually retired.
Taking the pvp side of the argument: Yes, it would be good if as a well trained baddie, I ( and others ) could make *real* threats in game that people could not just walk away from. I could do road blocks and demand tolls for safe passage.... and not have people just walk through me like I wasn't there or say sassy things and walk away without consequence. Their options would be to fight, run away or log out if they didn't want to take the risk.
To be quite honest, if another player does not want their character to be exposed to the whims of my character, then I would rather not force it on them. When I play the game with fellow players, I want them to enjoy it too. I don't want to be an annoying pain in their ass ( Here I'm talking about the player, not the character). If someone is willing to take the risk of exposing their character to mine, then I will not need to force action on them with the game's mechanics.
While not everyone will agree with me on this, I want to point out something about mixing live-action pvp and text based RP. If I can't type an emote or statement because I'll get chopped down at the knees while typing, then I can't RP and that really sucks. If I need to spend all my time training HA and stats so I don't get tragically impaled from behind while typing, then I don't have time to RP. That really sucks too. If I can't quest for glyphs or needed skills because to do so requires crossing a pvp zone that is lined with players who oocly know where the boundary is and just want to skewer a noob, then that kinda sucks too.
I do see the fun in live-action pvp, but I really don't think having both pvp and text rp in the same world works very well. Rearranging all the NPCs and quests so that you can train within the city walls might help (assuming pvp is off in the city), but that would take a ridiculous amount of work and would eliminate the incentive for players to step into the danger zones. That's just my perspective and opinion.
Currently I think there's three open pvp zones - Camp Banished, the Dlayo(sp?) pit, and the new Plat mine. (Maybe the arena in oja too?) Admittedly, simply having pvp zones like these does not really open up strategic opportunities for pvp as you had described.
( Actually, the new plat mine did provide this opportunity and was exploited by a guild. This worked because there were elements of both risk and reward. Once plat lost it's relative value, the reward disappeared and the dynamic dissolved. It's barren now. )
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I'm pretty sure Peacer hasn't played since before NotLaanx server was introduced and retired. ;) However, I almost never do PvP so this isn't really my sphere. Yet, would it work to run an event where everyone knows that open PvP is part of the story, set it either in an open pvp area or have all participants set auto accept on once in the right place, and then leave the RP mostly to before and after combatants engage each other?
You can technically leave the combat itself to mechanics, but use RP to determine who gets into combat and what happens after. If I remember correctly, you don't have to automatically kill someone at the end of a duel now. Not automatically killing should help leave room for RPing at the end of the duel and deciding where to go from there.
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So if I read this right, given this solution, all players would be vulnerable to pvp. They would need to rely on guards (and hopefully watch towers) to protect them from getting one-shotted from a very long distance or gutted up close.
I have no idea how the current pvp works with distance and all, but my suggestion was based on the idea that pvp would be *somewhat* balanced, if you can get one-shot the guards that are implemented should be able to stop this
I'm not sure if you were still playing when the pvp server(ezpc) was set up, Peacer. The entire server was ooc open pvp. You could say anything you wanted and just chop people down willy nilly. As I recall, it did not exactly pass the test of time and was eventually retired.
Nope I didn't play :) I heard the news of it opening, not the result or that it already closed though.
To be quite honest, if another player does not want their character to be exposed to the whims of my character, then I would rather not force it on them. When I play the game with fellow players, I want them to enjoy it too. I don't want to be an annoying pain in their ass ( Here I'm talking about the player, not the character). If someone is willing to take the risk of exposing their character to mine, then I will not need to force action on them with the game's mechanics.
that is why keeping to the main road should keep you safe, straying off of it there should be the risk of people wanting to chop you down (you take risk of a shortcut but travel faster) if you have to agree on setting up events with travelling merchants that gets ambushed sorta ruins it a bit that you know it will happen, spontaneous is better since you don't expect it to happen but you know it will happen which creates a better experience.
While not everyone will agree with me on this, I want to point out something about mixing live-action pvp and text based RP. If I can't type an emote or statement because I'll get chopped down at the knees while typing, then I can't RP and that really sucks. If I need to spend all my time training HA and stats so I don't get tragically impaled from behind while typing, then I don't have time to RP. That really sucks too. If I can't quest for glyphs or needed skills because to do so requires crossing a pvp zone that is lined with players who oocly know where the boundary is and just want to skewer a noob, then that kinda sucks too.
with proper macroing you can prepare some statements, and you can create events in the client that makes your character say something pre-defined on death/near death/battle initiation.
If you get chopped down as a noob you have an opportunity to get to know new players and ask them for protection, great way to start relationships with one another.
I do see the fun in live-action pvp, but I really don't think having both pvp and text rp in the same world works very well. Rearranging all the NPCs and quests so that you can train within the city walls might help (assuming pvp is off in the city), but that would take a ridiculous amount of work and would eliminate the incentive for players to step into the danger zones. That's just my perspective and opinion.
create guards where the npcs you need to speak with are, but having danger adds some much needed risk to the game and a way to make things happen in a way that the game more intuitively supports.
Currently I think there's three open pvp zones - Camp Banished, the Dlayo(sp?) pit, and the new Plat mine. (Maybe the arena in oja too?) Admittedly, simply having pvp zones like these does not really open up strategic opportunities for pvp as you had described.
( Actually, the new plat mine did provide this opportunity and was exploited by a guild. This worked because there were elements of both risk and reward. Once plat lost it's relative value, the reward disappeared and the dynamic dissolved. It's barren now. )
I think that's sad, the game need some kind of dynamics so the gameplay isn't that stale and for a way to make things happen that doesn't turn the game into a 3d chat game.
I see your points and I think they are good ones which can only make the idea better, and mold it in to a way that creates some dynamic game activity rather than chat activity.
You can technically leave the combat itself to mechanics, but use RP to determine who gets into combat and what happens after. If I remember correctly, you don't have to automatically kill someone at the end of a duel now. Not automatically killing should help leave room for RPing at the end of the duel and deciding where to go from there.
As I said before, you can add to the dynamics by having events on your character that go off on death, attack initiation, near death, adding with enemy spotted could be good too, you could implement that outlaws can steal trias from you when you lay there (spoils of war) and killing people would make you able to only get 25% of what you could get (you can just bank your tria). Guard npcs will come 5s after the outlaws leave and your character will automatically tell who it was to get them wanted (eventually bountys) if the character got killed guards could see the blood and determine that it was a brown stonebreaker (or whatever race) in the group of attackers
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Like Rigwyn said there are PvP areas where no challenge acceptance is required, this allow the players to choose whether they want to take the risk of being attacked or not. One is especially made for challenges (the arena), another is meant to be an outlaw area (camp banished) that support some line of quests as well (so most probably many newbies will ends up here anyway) there are also very challenging NPCs here; the last is a resource area (platinum is the highest priced metal and an essential ingredient to make platinum steel weapons [yes, weapons: platinum steel longswords are no more the only craftable plat steel weapons]).
At last I must mention some mobs (depending on theiur race and ecology) are aggressive by default in the wilderness area, and some of the hunting zones include mines like gold mine and such. This is to encourage the gathering of player to defend and protect the miners. As of now a good deal of mobs are aggressive and will attack, they no more stay idling until they're hit (unless they belongs to a not aggressive race).
We have also tribes, some of them gets particularly aggressive when someone step into their tribe home.
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If I need to spend all my time training HA and stats so I don't get tragically impaled from behind while typing, then I don't have time to RP.
It is actually worse than that, maxed out skills and stats don't have such a big impact as very rare equipment, which is near impossible to find these days. That does not necessarily mean that game balance is broken, but it implies that open PvP does not work quite well. I think PvP is fun if both parties agree on some fair rules in advance, else you might get one-hit-shot from a few kilometres distance.
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with proper macroing you can prepare some statements, and you can create events in the client that makes your character say something pre-defined on death/near death/battle initiation.
For some of us, this would reduce role playing to clicking macros. It would defeat the whole purpose of role playing. The use of macros like this would akin to me telling you to just hire someone to play the game for you.
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with proper macroing you can prepare some statements, and you can create events in the client that makes your character say something pre-defined on death/near death/battle initiation.
For some of us, this would reduce role playing to clicking macros. It would defeat the whole purpose of role playing. The use of macros like this would akin to me telling you to just hire someone to play the game for you.
I agree. Albeit some too verbose RPed actions kill my personal excitement and tension about the fight, those kind of macros are not very satisfying to me too... if I have to die I wish to do it in a spectacular and case specific way. :)
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with proper macroing you can prepare some statements, and you can create events in the client that makes your character say something pre-defined on death/near death/battle initiation.
For some of us, this would reduce role playing to clicking macros. It would defeat the whole purpose of role playing. The use of macros like this would akin to me telling you to just hire someone to play the game for you.
I agree. Albeit some too verbose RPed actions kill my personal excitement and tension about the fight, those kind of macros are not very satisfying to me too... if I have to die I wish to do it in a spectacular and case specific way. :)
Maybe I should have been more specific, with death I meant if you want your character to make a comment if your ally dies, if you yourself die you could get a gui box that waits for you to input something. ex.
I'll get you another time
character says: I'll get you another time
\/me glares at his killer with hatred (had to use the backslash to show the normal slash without activating the forum action :p)
character glares at his killer with hatred
you could also just press ok and it will output something you have predefined.
Making some after-match RP won't be hard to implement with this, it's more the pre-match RP that will be hard, implementing events is probably the best thing, and you can prepare it before you decide to rampage about the outlands.
For some of us, this would reduce role playing to clicking macros. It would defeat the whole purpose of role playing. The use of macros like this would akin to me telling you to just hire someone to play the game for you.
only in open pvp scenarios where you have to use the in-game battle system, as I said before the only hard thing will be to type out the before-hand battle scenario, although you could create a piece of paper which you hand to your victim if you decide to ambush him with guards around. That's the only difference you'll have with requesting duels and having open pvp, if you wish to roleplay the whole battle you probably won't need to do it in an open area anyway, you can make "imagine" that as well (did it before house of purrty got the in-game interior of the house they rp'ed at.)