Author Topic: Some clearing up.  (Read 2687 times)

paxx

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Some clearing up.
« on: June 01, 2003, 03:35:02 am »
PK, or player killer is when a player for no real reason is able to attack another player (this will not be in the game) except in very limited areas of the game

PvP, or player Vs player, is when a player can attack others for some reason and he is also a target to the other player. Many games today have this as the primary motivation for their game and as such not only encourage it, but make it mandatory. We will not make it mandatory, but optional to partake.

Now the current line of thought among the people who want PK is that it can be done and enforced easily. In reality the only way this would be done is with very extreme penalties, and thus make it a moot point.

Some have said that extreme PKers can be banned, well I?ll ask you for a full proof way to ban people on a free game specially when IPs are can be random. We don?t have the luxtury of credit card name or address banning. There are ways yes, but it would require our intervention in an extreme way, and no one from that household will be able to play until they change ISPs or hardware configurations depending how it is done.

And as the story line of the game as it stands now, such anti-progressive activity would be viewed as treason, we would then have to have secret police investigating such activity and rendering the character unplayable.

As such it would be poor game play.

And I think it is much better to simply say this activity will not be in the game at all.

Now that said.

I think it would be a great game if we where all part of one side or another all fighting for control of some type and each looking after number one (ourselves) and that the game focused on our actions and we where both friend to some and foe to others.

But the simple answer to my much longer proposal then that with explanations to many areas of that was this ?Sounds like a great game, but it will not be Planeshift?.

So while I am one of the most sympathetic to the PK and PvP areas, it is not planned to be in this game as wanted.

Don?t think that I got this subforum started to have people accusing me of  not having the foresight or grey matter to understand the possibilities and many positive things both these things can bring to the game. If anything it is the opposite. But sadly it is not me you must win over, or even other people who frequent these boards.

And to date I have not seen a system of PK that I really like that would fit our game. Taken to an extreme I can tell you that if this system had PKing at this point, it will suck badly. As people would not really know who is who and there is no real way to con people at this point. So there really is no low level person we can protect well from high levels. And so even trying to balance would be really hard because progression is much more 3 dimensional in that just because someone is supposedly more powerful does not mean he can?t easily be killed by some not so common method that he just does not have the defenses for.

As such it is very simple for someone to have your number and become your bane. This may seem cool, but it is not, it simply means anyone may have the potential to take you out, and at the same time be immune to anything you can do to them. Guilds would be able to rule areas for a given amount of time just by laying claim, or as suggested charge a toll for using that area.
 This is by far against everything this game is about. But nothing is stopping any of you, or me for that matter from making a game where this activity is encouraged. Most of this game will be open source and as such, you can apply the rules and models you want and start a game of your own. But it will not be Planeshift.    
-Paxx

audioaxes

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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2003, 02:03:56 pm »
how about tribe/clan/kingdom wars where if u enlist in a certain kingdom\'s force, u are given their protection but also suseptible [yikes; spelling] to being attacked by other players in opposing forces IF there is a war waged between the two kingdoms


-and the wars can be declared by the ruler of each kingdom [who is a NPC]  -allowing the devs to cook up conflict between kingdoms every now and then....




-just alittle nothing i just thought of

paxx

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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2003, 02:54:27 pm »
Ummm, kingdoms???
-Paxx

Skain

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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2003, 03:05:19 pm »
would i be right in thinking there is only 1 kingdom in this world (Yliakum)??? IE all citys and places within are singally ruled
« Last Edit: June 01, 2003, 03:10:07 pm by Skain »
-Skain-

audioaxes

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« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2003, 06:30:38 pm »
i used kingdoms for lack of a better word....

just a group of many players versus another group
-both led by npc\'s

Darkanan

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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2003, 10:48:00 am »
I will compromise and give you this new system that I was thinking of in response to all of the ideas and responses you gave me on that long as hell 20 point system I put in that other post.

First of all.

You know and so do I that you can ban IPs from playing your game. A lot of other games (MUDs, and MMORPGs) do it. It prevents you from logging in from your IP address which the server must read in to allow you to play. Yes there is the effect that someone who is IP banned can go out and get a new IP address and there are some that will do it just to play a game such as this but you are looking at a small 2 percent and chances are they will just get IP banned again (something that takes you Devs only about 20 seconds to do)

1.) If you don\'t want to allow people to decide if they can be peaceful or fighter on creation thats fine whatever its your game but in response to what you said most people would probably go the fighter route. It would be cool to see what people choose.

2.) Forget the outlaw tag you don\'t like the idea. and the NPC police.

2.5) Safe Places: ALL towns, temples, and a few other places are completely safe from PvP fighting meaning there can be no guild wars and no PKing done inside of these areas. However, there can be duels inside of these areas.

3.) Anyone IN A GUILD has the option of attacking another person at any time.
    However there will be two (or more) different guild classes and they can only attack people in the same guild class. There are the fighter and the crafter guild types. This way fighters cannot attack bakers/crafters and they can also not attack neutrals (people with no affiliation as of yet). THus neutrals cannot attack anyone in a guild (unless in duel which I will get to later).

Crafters can only attack other crafters.

4.) There is no penalty for attacking and killing someone of the same guild type. Leave that to the people in the guilds to decide. This will most likely begin guild wars. Guild wars only have to be declared by one party.

5.) Dueling: Anyone can Duel with anyone at any time however it must be accepted on by both parties. Death will constitute a real death.

6.) Arenas: Arenas will exist in the towns (the only place that people will be able to fight inside of a town). Watchers will have the option of betting on the matches. Also there can be two different types of arenas. The everyone for themself arena in which as many people as want can enter into the  arena at the same time. THe last person standing is the winner. Deaths are fake in that no experience or items are lost unless wagered before hand. Also there can be the one on one arena. One player vs. Aother. Same rules with regards to the death.

Finally, there can be the monsters arena and you can have some special monsters in there like supped up versions of monsters so that people can show off their strength. Deaths will result in a minimal skill loss or soemthing like that. If they win they will get something too.

This with some of the other good points in my other PKsystem I think would work great.

paxx

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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2003, 03:15:52 pm »
As far as kingdoms?we won?t really have them, the movement is more like a representative system with many factions represented. Each level will have a supreme ruler but he is not very powerful all in all, it might be like a parliamentary system in a way but it is not that either exactly. Ah in the end we will see how it works out, much of it will change as we try and implement it I am sure.

As for guilds and their influence, I am sure they will have it to differing degrees.
-Paxx

audioaxes

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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2003, 04:22:20 pm »
i dont think that \"last man standing\" arena is a good idea

-unless its team survival with two diff guilds going at it


a free-for-all wouldnt work cuz the player hiding in the corner wins

Nadius

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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2003, 09:46:31 pm »
id like to see pking.....   and an easy way to ban someone is by getting there mac adress which if there connected you your server its pretty easy anyway if you ban someones mac address you ban there nic card or modem... the mac adress is hard wired in the card itself
so it cant be faked or  changed without changing the nic/modem

mac adress is also known as phsyical adress and every nic/modem has a diffrent one

paxx

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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2003, 10:53:28 pm »
In reality the MAC address banning is the most likely way we will ban people, at issue in this case is mac spoofing (can be done not easy in my view at least the one method I am familiar with, but doable) and the banning of a computer from our game, no matter the number of users on it.

If this person who offended is really malicious, he will repeat whatever the offence is on more then one machine just to prove a point and get people pissed off at us.

In a truly perfect game system we would not allow a single bannable offence to take place.  

The other issues that I am not familiar enough with is MAC address acquisition for the banning, will the player need to be logged in to ban him as such. Will we logg all MAC addresses  that each character uses and bann them all??? Like I said there are many issues I am simply not qualified to answer in this area, you can thank your lucky stars I am not programming this :-). I am familiar enough to say it will work and it is not too hard to do, the issue here comes down to the best way to do it. Are we going to ban all the places this guy had played his character? His friends house where he introduced a ?good ? player to the game and showed what his character could do. Or just his most common location.

Back to the perfect system.
Now if we could have a perfect system where characters could never do things that are considered bannable and we even had probation of some sort (my mind is spinning with possibilities)  but pking allows a bannable offence?we would have to say stop no more. Some players might be following a very good ethic others not, how do we judge. But in the end it is quite simple?No Pking.

This was drilled into my head today as character creation was being discussed?well not drilled but mentioned. So while I?m the only one talking about it I am not the one to explain it to, I had a decent Pk system in mind in a weird and devious way?but no.

Mainly I have to agree, it does not fit the story or ?vision? of the game. I know more then I did then and have to say this is the best rout.
And you either get to trust my judgment, or seek another game, or wait in the dark for your opportunity to strike and say, well now is the time that Pk should be thought about and implemented.

For all the hard core pk types, you can guess my suggestion :-) but in truth this is not the game to pk in, there are many and there will be even more that it is, but in our current model it won?t be done.

If we are ever having 10 servers with different players sets (not merged in some way like zone servers) it will probably be considered and if there are devs willing to support it, it may happen.

At the same time it will be possible once we are functioning to insert art and rules and have a truly pk from the ground up game.

That is tempting, but in a weird way I have to think that it will be easier to do after we are fully functioning, then it is right now. A lot of the hard things will be done, instead of years and years?a few months and you will probably have a pretty decent game.
-Paxx

Nadius

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« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2003, 08:00:44 pm »
we could just delete the character!!  

anyways yea i agree i want to see this game up as quick as possible

pking or no pking im shure its gonna be a good game either way


and y do you all assum,e just cause we have a certain degree of pking wed make the game about pking??
anyways good luck on the game

paxx

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« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2003, 04:35:36 pm »
It is not about it being about PK or not. It is about what you want people to do in the game, what experience they have.

PKing is a polarizing issue, many people hate it, and based that the game is more about other things, it will not have pking.

As far as who what why and where. If you don?t allow something by not having it, then it is not possible to abuse.

That is the simple answer?if cocaine did not exist, then it could not be abused.

Now, in the certain degree of pking, what is a certain degree?if a game allows pking then it has pking and becomes about pking cause the people who do not want pking do not play.

We have seen in shadowbane some level of restraint in this and enforcement by the guilds. But that is a PvP game in that it?s focus is PvP.

I can?t say what the perfect answer is, but it is impossible to make everyone happy, and we will attempt to make what the game was initially about. Might pking gent added later?who knows but I doubt it at this point. Shadowbane has the best system I have seen and it is not great.
-Paxx

Yann

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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2003, 09:03:44 am »
Well, i am getting a bit confused....

No PK, ok then.

But there will still be duals, arenas fighting and guild wars, right ?

paxx

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« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2003, 02:47:59 pm »
yes
-Paxx

Nadius

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« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2003, 04:16:54 am »
today i cast a spell on this girl in tibia dint kill her just scared her alittle she ran away screeming and someone heard her and buroght me down to 3hp and made me pay the girl for her troubles and appoligise thats how the pking system should go .... not restricted by rules or regulations but restricted by players