Stat Tests

[Sangwa]

I think it'd be lovely if there was a tool that would allow players to test their stats amongst themselves. Stat tests would have 2 aspects: self tests and opposed tests. The results would be shown in all the surrounding players' system tab at the chat box, stating only what characteristic was tested, the difficulty of that task and its result.

I'd propose the following way of handling this system (considering maxed stats are 200 and that the system should be as simple to implement as possible):

Single Character Tests:
/test <characteristic> <difficulty> -> A 210 die is rolled. If the roll is bellow the characteristic tested then the test is successful.
(Since 200/210 = 0.95, than this means Maxed players have 95% success for normal circumstances.)

Opposite Tests:
/optest <characteristic> <target_player> <difficulty> ->Target Player gets the chance to reject or accept test; System rolls a 65 die for each player. The value of the roll is added to the characteristic's rank. The two sums are compared, the highest one wins.
(Since 65/200 = 0.325 than this means that luck influences 30% of the outcome.)

Test Difficulty:
Test difficulty virtually adds or remove "ranks" from a player's characteristic (the one that uses the command, always.) I've named them after the type of challenge they are associated with:
Trifle: +60 (+30% Single Test)
Very Common: +40  (+20%)
Common: +20 (+10%)
Normal: 0
Demanding: -20 (-10%)
Very Demanding: -40 (-20%)
Complex: -60 (-30%)

Test Outcomes
There should be 4 types of results:
Success (won by a margin larger than 10%)
Close Success (won by less than 10%)
Stalemate (Tie)
Close Failure (same logic with success)
Failure

This should help make evident that events that are less than trifle shouldn't even be tested, and just auto-accepted.

Why should this be implemented?
In a RPG game, there is usually a way of testing characteristics to decide the success of actions that are not predicted in any other system (like the fighting system and the falling damage system.) In PlaneShift it'd be nice to have this feature as well and I doubt it would be too hard to implement it as I've mentioned. The system I advise to use would still keep player's characteristics unknown (since only the result would be shown), while turning outcomes visible (which is what matters.)
Such a tool would greatly value the stat system, since players would start making more use of their skills and stats rather than walking around them all the time.

[Sarras Volcae]

interesting... but how could you know how difficult a task is? just by consensus?

[Sangwa]

Exactly. The other players will see which difficulty you chose. In PS roleplaying is done in a consensual basis (i.e. you have to agree to duels, to being stolen, to any player on player interaction).

[RlyDontKnow]

first: I don't see a point in testing others. they can just do /test skill difficulty themselves (given test would publicly announces what was tested against which difficulty and what's been the result similiar to roll)


second: could you better explain how that should actually work?

Self Tests:
/test <characteristic> <difficulty>
->System rolls a 210 die.  If a roll is bellow the stat tested then the test is successful (95% success for maxed players.)
->Information is displayed

that sounds very specific and as such I don't see a point in adding it at all tbh

[Sangwa]

I see what you mean, like opposite tests would depend on each player testing himself and then seeing which got successful and which didn't. The problem with that, is that it might take too many dice throws for levels that are too close. If your question was another, then I can say opposite tests need to exist in circumstances like arm wrestles, dexterity games, etc, challenges when two players' stats are challenged against each other.

I've edited (well, will right away) so you can better understand it.

I hope it's better explained now.

[RlyDontKnow]

hm, ok, got where your numbers are coming from now. yet I wouldn't make those static, but instead definable by some mean (first because the maximum for stats is 400 and 200 for skills, second because people may not want to use that hard limit)

[Sarva]

Couldn't there be a very simple way of doing this? I have though about the example of arm wrestling before and had a system set up. To improve the system I had it would have been nice to have something like a /show command where you could show another player what your strength is. So the two players who are going to arm wrestle show each other their strength then each player rolls  a die based on their str. so if my str is 100 and you are 200 str I would roll a 100 sider and you roll a 200 sider and who ever gets the higher roll wins.

[Sangwa]

Well, that would be nice as well, Sarva.

The only problem is that it still incites people into forming even more niches (as in what type of rolls they use). And while we're at that, the answer is the same for rlydontknow. The statistics don't have to be the ones I've mentioned, since you Developers are the ones who set relativeness throughout the game (like it's done with fighting, crafting, etc). Still, the way I see it, it's better to create an universal system rather than a "Choose your own", so as to generate as little noise between players as possible.

I do agree it's a whole lot better to have it as Sarva said than to not do it at all. (Though in that example both should roll a 100 sided die, or Luck has too much weight )

[verden]

Here was my take on this concept, if anyone is interested:

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/flyspray/index.php?task_id=2767

[Sarras Volcae]

Couldn't there be a very simple way of doing this? I have though about the example of arm wrestling before and had a system set up. To improve the system I had it would have been nice to have something like a /show command where you could show another player what your strength is. So the two players who are going to arm wrestle show each other their strength then each player rolls  a die based on their str. so if my str is 100 and you are 200 str I would roll a 100 sider and you roll a 200 sider and who ever gets the higher roll wins.

arm wrestling isn't based on luck. bad example.

[Sangwa]

Everything is based on luck Sarras. Two Arm Wrestlers in the same level can go at it and witness different results each time they arm wrestle. Like in any other game.

Verden, your example seems to be even more extensive than mine. This extensiveness is what is being criticized by the Developers here.

Also, if Max is 400, it's a simple matter of doubling the values I presented there.

[verden]

What I posted there was an extensive spec of the concept, as I think its better to reduce an idea down to what is minimally necessary, rather than start with too little. But the basic idea amongst all of these suggestions is that mechanical functions that support better roleplay in game would be welcomed by many players, whatever the final form of the implementation might be.

[RlyDontKnow]

Verden, your example seems to be even more extensive than mine. This extensiveness is what is being criticized by the Developers here.

don't get it wrong, it's not the extensive, it's too specific

instead, I'd propose something more generic - e.g. /test <stat/skill> <difficulty> <cap> would be less specific as it makes it more open for the player(s) to specify how much luck/whatever would influence the test

then similiar to roll it could announce something like "character name succeeded/failed/whatever the test for some skill with difficulty x and cap y"

that way there aren't really any specifics implied making it usable for a wider range of applications imo

[verden]

Yes, boil it down and take what is useful. I think any effort in this area would be appreciated by many.

[Sangwa]

RlyDontKnow, it'd be awesome if it was done like that. I'm not sure what these different applications you have in mind are, but considering we have many players, I'm sure I'll find them out.

Like Verden said, any effort in this area is a great one.

PS: I've proposed a specific system mainly because the two P&P games I played seemed to use it. I think the Difficulty Modifier accounts for the place luck has in the action (higher modifier, less luck involved), but maybe I'm missing some other uses for the tool.