haters gonna hate

[Akkaido Kivikar]

If you wish to play on a roleplay server, you're in the wrong place. Players even get banned for roleplaying.






mod's note:  originally split from http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=37965.0

[Sillamon]

The Ten Nine Commandments of Planeshift

1. Thou shalt not duel lest ye be damned to ezpc
2. Thou shalt not role play well lest ye be branded a roleplay nazi
3. Thou shalt not know thy settings. Your memory was erased long ago cause we didnt bother to complete the background stories.
4. Thou shalt ressurect from death within minutes and act as if nothing hath happened.
5. Thou shalt not speaketh oocly in main without square brackets
6. Thou shalt not use square brackes in main at all when a gm is watching lest you be banned
7. Thou shalt not carry a farming tool into thy city if it could be loosely interpeted as a weapon
8. Thou shalt not talketh about false games in thy forum
9. If ye seeth a problem with thy commandments then just ignore it. These commandments are in pre-alpha.

Thou art subject to thy rules and regulations which may change at random without warning or notification. Though are expected to just magically know when they change.

[LigH]

@ Akaiddo:

That requires an explanation...

I might misunderstand the target of your assertion; but emptying guildhouses without consent - for example - is no kind of "roleplaying" we should encourage. There are differences between IC and OOC misbehaviour.

If you meant another example, point me there.
__

@ Sillamon:

You forgot the <Sarkasm Mark>...

We all are humans and make mistakes. Unfortunately, too few are able to accept that, to confess their mistakes, to excuse for them, to change their minds... Instead some seem to even consider to ruin the fun of everyone with another opinion, just go get proven right.

Among those who complain the loudest today are some of those who tried to become exceptional. Even in ruthless ways. Zero tolerance for other opinions.

[Aiwendil]

Okay, I get it...even if I try to help it will only lead to arguments. I will leave it to Maisant and Earowo then to help the new players. Then they can also push their views about reading being bad in the process and continue ranting about elitism of others.

[Akkaido Kivikar]

LigH: He didn't empty "guildhouses" that's a plural. He emptied one guildhouse, which was left open for an entire week. Thieves do that. He also did it on his evil alt. Upon being caught in a different guildhouse, he roleplayed a chase through Hydlaa.

The GMs involved weren't even open to the idea that he had taken his roleplay a bit out of hand, it was decided from the start, without any discussion with him, that he was suddenly an OOC griefer and must be purged from the community. For a roleplay. Sure, not the neatest and most well-conceptualised and planned roleplay, but it was an IC action nonetheless, and he was banned on all accounts.

And so, I have moved from the group supporting PlaneShift's GMs and devs, to the one saying that PlaneShift is not a roleplay game anymore, and should change it's website advertising to reflect this.

[Sarva]

There were three guild houses that were pretty much emptied of items. In one of those houses the vast majority of items taken had little monetary value ( common plants and herbs, cooked food etc). But in that same house several personal books were taken that couldn't be replaced given the new book system. Sorry but taking personal books ( like one character had 6 volumes of their personal journal taken) just screams griefing to me. We have banned players for causing less total amount of grief in the past so in this case given the number of people who suffered grief I think the penalty is well deserved.

[Akkaido Kivikar]

And through this amazing thing called ROLEPLAY, the stolen journals could have been returned.

It's pathetic and stupid to decide that when someone leaves their house unlocked, and their stuff gets stolen, that whoever robbed the place should be lynched. And anyone of the same star sign as him.

[Sarras Volcae]

There were three guild houses that were pretty much emptied of items. In one of those houses the vast majority of items taken had little monetary value ( common plants and herbs, cooked food etc). But in that same house several personal books were taken that couldn't be replaced given the new book system. Sorry but taking personal books ( like one character had 6 volumes of their personal journal taken) just screams griefing to me. We have banned players for causing less total amount of grief in the past so in this case given the number of people who suffered grief I think the penalty is well deserved.

how is that griefing? i don't get it

[Akkaido Kivikar]

Because the people who lost their items, rather than roleplaying that they had lost their items and working IC to get them back, decided to OOCly complain and whinge to the GMs to find and ban the robber OOCly.

[LigH]

@ Akaiddo:

What you don't seem to understand is:

The *character* (IC) may be a thief, looking for open doors, stealing on opportunity. That much could be roleplay.

But the *player* (OOC) is part of the community. A player who allows his chars to steal property without being social to the other players by warning them about their open door and a possible / planned loss of property is an associal bnehaviour of the *player* - and that is not at all related to roleplaying, that is the real-life character of the player.

And if I can't trust the player, how can I trust his characters in the future? The lack of players in Ojaveda might be annoying for the Enki Alliance - but that one was a suicide move for Kore Irka Clan.

I would prefer a lot to be "roleplay-robbed" e.g. by any Outlaw or Cutthroat - or what Kull currently does in the Tower of Knowledge - in a clearly roleplayed style over being robbed in my absence without any interaction between the characters. This is a roleplaying game. It has to stay a game. Good or bad luck have to stay roleplayed. Making them persistent moves them out of the game into real-life.

[Akkaido Kivikar]

but that one was a suicide move for Kore Irka Clan.

I'd long thrown in the towel there. People in PlaneShift don't role-play, there was nowhere near enough people interested in KIC or the Enki Alliance because they'd rather not role-play on a role-playing server.

The grade of role-play on PlaneShift's "role-play" server now matches the grade of role-play on WoW's official "roleplay" servers. A few talented individuals here and there, but overall, it's sh--.

No exploits were abused, the reason such an action was possible rests solely with the guilds who were robbed. And everyone thinks "Oh my God! We'll never see these items again!" which is also a load of bull. The character who stole them was a throwaway alt. Vakachehk had no problem with that character being brought to an untimely demise and in the process handing back the items. He didn't intend to keep the items for his own OOC benefit. He had no OOC use for those personal journals Sarva mentions as the source of so much "grief"...

Also, before a thief robs the house you left unlocked, he doesn't send you a quick cellphone text message saying "[Hey dude, your house is unlocked. Okay if I rob it? I'll give it all back later.]"

The fact is, the guilds involved (except one) don't give two flying sh--s about role-play. But they happily take up space on a role-playing server. And GMs back them over role-players. So PlaneShift isn't what it claims to be.

[BoevenF]

you are heavily  and now I understand much better the reason why the gameplay is stalling. the dude probably is running away, playing something less complicated. He didn't knew that a working client implies a knowledge of the dynamics between angry players.

[Aiwendil]

Didn't this thread serve a purpose then? It help a poor soul to safe him/herself a lot of troubles.

[Sarva]

Let's examine the claims of RP in the case of the house thefts.   To justify the house thefts as RP the claim was made that the thief was hired by someone in Oja to make people feel less safe in Hydlaa so that they would want to come visit Oja more.  So after almost a month in RL what actions were taken by the thief to support this claim and make any kind ofRP out of this?  Were any posters posted in Hydlaa talking about the house thefts anything to the affect talking about how dangerous Hydlaa has become? No not that I know of and none that the thief could point out. Any IC  conversations between characters talking about the house thefts  and talking about how much safer other cities are? Again none that I know of and none claimed by the thief. In short after almost a month since the first robbery  can you point to a single act done by the thief to forward this so called RP other than to continue robbing houses? I know the thief was looking for a 4th house to rob since I followed him checking every GH door in Hydlaa and Gug as the first thing that happened after that character logged in.

One of the things I learned when I first started playing this game is that it is bad form to force your RP onto others. You should invite others into your RP if you have something you want to do that will have major affect on another player. I would say stealing items of great value ( be they of real value or just personal value) is something that has a major affect on lots of players.  In this case it seems this so called RP was forced on a lot of people with no invitation

[verden]

Forcing actions upon other players in roleplay has always been verboten in PS. It would have been proper to inform the players concerned through OOC tell, to see if they wished to participate in your roleplay or not. Or to simply allow them to roll against you for the chance of discovering the guild house open. Using the guise of roleplay to simply abuse an OOC mechanism is not well thought out. To then use the completely expected and logical response to this to then take a political activist position regarding the advertising of the PS project, is a reach. They can call this project anything they want to, there is no contract, implied or actual that exists between the developers of a private game and the players, outside of the actual terms of the EULA for the software.

To be honest, the behavior of the "roleplayers" and the proportionality of their replies of the last couple of months, and actions concerning the state of roleplay in PS, don't make them look very good at all. I understand the development team's position on this: the roleplayers blew it in PS.