Players need more rights.

[Akkaido Kivikar]

Players deserve the right to scrutinize, pass judgement on, and tell GMs who are abusing their position to get out of their face and leave them to play.

Eg: the infamous Lhaa vs. Ingles example. GM warns player for something they did that is not even against the policy, player tells the GM to get out of their face and leave them to play, GM kicks them from the server.

The rule that on the PlaneShift forums, players cannot post any threads about GM actions, resolutions, etc. should be revoked. There are a few reasons to this.

1) The thread can then be used by GMs to inform the community of the exact reasons why the player was banned, and the community can express their opinions, rather than having tensions bottled up and spilling into other threads. By posting the thread, the player consents to all information about them in relation to the GM action/situation being released. Only the player who was on the receiving end of the GM action/resolution may start a thread on the subject.

2) Having such discussions on the PlaneShift forums means it is less likely that it will spill over into the wider internet community. This means less potential players from places like MMORPG.com, LinuxGameTome, etc. will be turned away by rumours of corrupt GMs, unfair bans/kicks, and so on. Isn't that a good thing?

Anyway, flame away. This isn't just to do with my brother's ban, I dealt with that by leaving the "team". This is about me voicing a complaint that players in PlaneShift deserve the above.

[Sangwa]

This has been discussed before, good friend.

So I'll give my version of why these things you want won't be implemented:
• GM's can kick players and so they will do it for whoever bothers them. It's a power they need to have;
• Players can scrutinize a GM. They can't just post it publicly or except the concerned GM to magically observe what they have concluded;
• Public flaming (rational or not) results in disruptive threads that hardly accomplish anything, since they turn into soap operas because everyone wants attention. Private discussion of GM related issues is a very wise decision from the team. Just be sure to contact with a GM 4 about your trouble.

And that's why players have enough rights as it is.

[Vakachehk]

Well depending on who you talk with, players are not players, but 'testers'. They are wrong.

Fair enough Lhaa should not of gotten banned. Someone really needs to do some sorting out in that GM team. I really don't like unprofessional, disrespectful, non listening GMs. Their job is to be all of those things. Not to piss players off more and cause disruptive threads.
This sounds like it is pointing towards GMs, when really it is everyone, sorry.

I like those ideas and unless someone takes more of a stand for what is right. Then honestly TA and CotH will take the players and developers from this game. Probably not the GMs though

[Xoel]

Lhaa wasn't banned, he/she was kicked by (OMG) In***s for... talking back. Even though he was really in the right given the situation.

[Vakachehk]

ohh my bad. Kicked from what?

[Geoni]

I think it is more along the side of getting rid of some of the GM's that don't help RP or do things like Ingles did to Lhaa, because that was an obvious sign of power abuse. 

[Knightspark9]

Hi Xoel! Play more. I miss you!

[Sen]

Someone really needs to do some sorting out in that GM team. I really don't like unprofessional, disrespectful, non listening GMs.

We must fire all and wipe them from the world! They make decisions. And, blasphemy, even ban players who don't agree with the ban!
(And force them to spread the complaint about it all over the forum)

Now, where is that wipe thread?

* Sen goes to vote with activated capslock

[Sangwa]

You're forgetting to respect the rule where we don't criticize GM's in the forums. This rule makes total sense, I repeat, because even with the rule we can see people getting all dramatic because a GM has a different opinion from the person and its friends.
It's also comprehensible GM's get annoyed when players bug them with every little thing, or when they disrespect the GM by being arrogant pricks.

I don't know the story you're mentioning and I don't want to know. I just know what my experience tells: I've played this for a long time without having troubles, so have most of the players I get along with around here.

If you don't like how the game is run, complain to the right people (GMs, Vengeance, whatever). If it doesn't work like you want it... *points at the door*

[Illysia]

hehe... Gosh, I knew Xoel would burnout and get as unabashedly grumbly as the rest of us... I just didn't know it would happen so soon... Darn, lost that bet! I gave you a year dude, you could have at least gone about 4 or 5 more months before you cracked. But at least I was right in that you wouldn't go quietly into that goodnight.


Players don't need more rights, the system just needs to be reworked. There was not enough planning and forethought in PS to account for the issues that arise from having so many people constantly in a multiplayer environment with this whole RP thing tossed in. Also there is not enough attention to the need to create a set standard that is player neutral and give everybody the same reference point.

Although I understand Devs some, I have little sympathy for their latest troubles. Sitting on your hands in the middle of the little wars doesn't help and there needs to be a definite vision imposed. And only a creatively dead person thinks that means only allowing one kind of RP... Get the visions of Nazis out of your heads… I swear people must be obsessed with them. It means things like what they started doing. I.e. no vampires, no outside references... things of that nature and no there aren't enough. Otherwise, nobody would have asked how to play a goblin. The boundaries are no longer clear.

Trying to go in all directions is what will keep PS at a mediocre level when it could be epic. Even if they choose to ditch the RP side, the game would drastically improve as at least they would have a more definite focus. Trying to do everything at once and as you can do it is not a very good system. This game is only propped up by Talad's stubbornness, as even willingness to prop it up from what devs and players are left is not enough.

Hat's off to Talad for somehow still pushing his way through the fact the game should have collapsed under its own weight after 18 year of being in development.

[verden]

I just know what my experience tells: I've played this for a long time without having troubles, so have most of the players I get along with around here.

Yep.

[RlyDontKnow]

just plain and simple: NO

there's absolutely no point in causing more flame threads about stupid things.
if you have an issue with a specific GM for real reasons (read: not "he stole me shovle, give it baaack! *cry*"), you're free to contact a higher up GM, the GM team leader (Hanix) or if that isn't enough some dev or even a director to get things sorted out. just keep one thing in mind: don't start flaming at any point, stay respectful and you're a lot more likely to receive a positive answer.

however, publicly discussing such incidents is just totally unprofessional and unacceptable.

[jaculapundactum]

It's a lost cause, get over it and focus on something else.

[Geoni]

Oh Jacula, your bluntness is always satisfying. <3

[Sillamon]

You have the right to stfu   

Seriously, a player is a player. They can be replaced just like that.
Its like filling an empty jar with marbles. If they all spill out then just
get more. No big deal, right?

If you dont agree with them and the way that they choose to run the
game then exercise your right to stop playing and find a more enjoyable
game.