PlaneShift

Fan Area => The Hydlaa Plaza => Topic started by: Roled on May 14, 2015, 09:33:08 pm

Title: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Roled on May 14, 2015, 09:33:08 pm
Again as always, read or not, as you wish.

I have decided to reveal a few things about RR's player to address rampant assumptions.

Yet, really, I shouldn't have to. Really no one's business.

But sometimes truth telling is critical to change.  Open discussions are the only way hegemony can be addressed non violently. These disclosures about me, in my real life, are my choice to reveal.

If I am allowed to post these few revelations I will post one at a time to allow you to respond or question.

Relevation #1:
Roled Rolak's player is both in real life and in practice, a self identified heterosexual being. Always have been. No one in my immediate family that I am aware of is gay.  Some however are happy...  :woot:

me

Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Rigwyn on May 15, 2015, 04:27:14 pm

I think the days of black and white orientation have taken the back seat. There's a lot more talk now about people simply deciding for themselves what they like and don't like rather than conforming to a predefined norm. For those who fall squarely one one side of the spectrum or the other, that's certainly fine too. It's just one more possibility rather than the "right" or "wrong" orientation.

Kudos to you for exploring this with your character and making a statement at the same time. While there are many folks who are "out", there are still those who are not and would likely be comforted by your example.

Hmm... Four revelations, you say... Now that you got the elephant out of the closet, what else do you have for us to gawk at?     :p

What else could be behind those curtains....   



Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Donari Tyndale on May 15, 2015, 04:32:48 pm
Revelation 4: Roled is truly following Dakkru :D
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Roled on May 15, 2015, 08:52:54 pm
HeHeHeh Donari- how could you tell??-  But remember, these are clearly my real life revelations- I haven't found a death realm from which I can return with only 15 minutes of annoyance... yet...
And Rigster- you see exactly two of my real life motivations for role playing a gay character- partially as a question posed against the hegemonic coercion of normativity, and partially as one version- and only one version- potentially- as a voice for the voiceless and as an active ally to those who are bullied in the real world and in some gaming worlds like Planeshift.

So... revelation #2 in my real life. I actually - now please don't keel over Rig, Donari and others....  ::|  and sorry to break some hearts, my armrest (hehehe Celroc)

In real life I am married. With an actual license. 

In my mainstream marriage experience, my partner and I had to FIRST get a license at the county bureau of licenses (permission under the LAW,) then wait 3 days, then when we were married, YES, in a religious setting, ( there are secrets to reveal here too!! will these be revelation #3? or #4? or #5? Tune in and find out in our next episode!) the officiant had to take us aside after the ceremony and we had to sign the formal license attesting to our non-coerced marriage ceremony  :love:. With witnesses.

I don't know if folks know that religious clergy in the USA have to be licensed by the legal authorities to perform weddings that are legally binding.  This is another real world reason why equity in marriage is important- without this legal equity, spouses do not have access to shared property, to end of life decisions, to full parental rights with offspring, biological or adopted and, I hear, 150 some other rights that different gendered partners have granted through the legal sanctioning of the marriage, from city halls or cathedrals.

Donari's hoping Dakkru conducted my ceremony but alas, unless the clergy was role playing mainstream Christian, that was not my factual reality. And Xiosia didn't show.

Who wants to guess what revelation #3 might be?

 :woot:  :innocent:
me
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: lilura on May 15, 2015, 09:29:34 pm
Who wants to guess what revelation #3 might be?

Roled is actually Brad Takei
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Pierre on May 15, 2015, 09:45:54 pm
/me slowly lets out her breath between clenched teeth.

Those laser surgery people cost tria, Roled.

Pierrette heads off to the most thorough laser place she knows to get that "ETERNAMENTE ROLEDITO" tattoo lasered off her butt.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Jagzer on May 16, 2015, 01:58:43 pm
I am glad to see I am not the only one that is playing a charater that is not their orientation. The game is here for us to explore, as well as tell a good story.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Jiggs on May 16, 2015, 04:57:47 pm
The fact that you feel there is a need to reveal these things shows, at least in part I think, that people still assume that when you roleplay, you let your rl affect it. To me, roleplaying is about doing things that I know I can't do in real life, but would really love to be able to, as well as finding someone else to be, even for a short time, to help me get away from who I am. That said, I'll admit I let a good portion of my actual personality affect my IC actions. That doesn't however, mean that those actions are OOC, just that there are some things I can't push myself to experience, even in RP... Yet. Am I allowed to guess that revelation # 3 is that there will really be 5 revelations? :P
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Roled on May 16, 2015, 05:20:24 pm
Jiggs - good insight I think.  Our limited human brains can't come up with entirely fabricated realities- that would be gibbberish- if the binfuzzles are by nature jerantropicons..  so we take bits and pieces of experiential, philosophic and socially conditioned realities, and attempt to communicate using ever changing symbolic thought pictures we call words. So of course you're right that a good portion of our actual personalities influence our rp characters AND we get to experiment with other good portions of our characters in ways our real life beings do or never would or don't have the courage or the physical strength or the emotional desire to actually 'be'.  Nothing wrong with imagination!

Jagzer, yeah- to explore and tell a good story. And I would suggest, sometimes to intellectually experience that story as if it were real for that character- something I think Roled does to the best of his player's ability.

Mia amorousa- sorry about the lazer surgery... can I still be Roledito?? I could have "my armrest" butt inked too, if mutual suffering would help!

HAAH #3 is not that there are #4 and #5... good guess!

SO for #3 would you rather I post the thing I think will surprise other players the most, or the thing I think may influence other players in their rp's with Roled, by knowing what I am about to reveal about my real life? These are of course my GUESSES about what you my fellow rps might think ... it might be interesting to see.  And no I am not Charlie Manson. Honest! Not Charlie Manson.... :P

What do you want first, most potentially surprising or most potentially influencing in your own rps towards Roled?

By the way I will throw another revelation in the pot. In real life I don't like pie all that much...
 :whistling:

/me
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Volki on May 16, 2015, 09:55:16 pm
Maybe this belongs on the off topic board? General discussion is meant to be related to the game, and I could not care less about identity politics.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Demagul Riwe on May 16, 2015, 10:01:36 pm
 ::| GASP  :o

H-how!? Why!? This pie revelation just broke Planeshift for me...
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Pierre on May 16, 2015, 11:20:54 pm
::| GASP  :o

H-how!? Why!? This pie revelation just broke Planeshift for me...

cracking up ;D and yes you are still and always Roledito, don't worry about that :love:  an armrest tattoo!!  Special Nina Nico Pierettina :)  I only got my tattoo modified, not lasered off, since I caught this message when I was at the parlor...now it says "INFERNAL ROLEDITO" and I really love it.

Keep 'em coming!!
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Rigwyn on May 16, 2015, 11:56:05 pm
Roled,

You know, I'm fine with the whole gay thing and the was-just-pretending thing, but the anti-pie thing is just wrong. I'm afraid that puts you in the "them" category. I'm sorry, but I don't want anyone to think that I don't like pie either. We should part ways.

(http://lovinglifeathome.files.wordpress.com/2013/04/life-lesson-6.jpg)

Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Roled on May 17, 2015, 12:34:31 am
OK revelation #3 I guess will be my choice- this is the one that I think will perhaps surprise some or most of the players who know Roled in game.

And again the caveat- read or not, as you will.  I do contend, in the discussion of what is OOC and what is IC- and since Roled has been accused of speaking OOCly, I am substantiating the point that Roled was being Roled then, quite different from me being me now. Similarities- of course. Off topic? - when game powers make accusations that are unfounded and inaccurate, well, perhaps something may be gained from examining some of the assumptions on which such accusations rely.

As if I need to justify this point to .. well never-mind.

So.
#3
I am 62 years old- by the Gregorian calendar not by Yliakum's cycles.  :o ?

[Me asks, Is anyone surprised? Me answers myself, maybe not... you old coot!  ::| It does however raise my curiosity if age will make any difference to the folks I've been rping with for the past 8 years in PS...  :detective:  But apparently the more shocking thing is the pie admission!  :sweatdrop:]

Corollary- After a 30+ year career as a live theatre director, touring performer and playwright, I moved on to teaching, writing and research.  Now I teach graduate seminars in philosophy, the history of social justice movements, directing for the theatre, research methods and interdisciplinary inquiry approaches as well as giving writing assistance and providing editing services to people writing undergraduate senior and master's degree papers and to playwrights. Oh and I've written a good handful or more of the newer quests in Planeshift- Venalan did the technical scripting part. I wrote the storylines and dialogues.

Perhaps these life experiences performing as characters in plays, writing characters in plays and screenplays and directing actors in full length shows has given me some confidence in my abilities to create and sustain nuanced characters.
Maybe. But heck I'm not a celebrity... just an artist.

Because of this controversy, I dropped out of the Shindrok project after writing several characters and quests and a long position paper on the world of the "bosses" and out of another full sequence of new quests in Amdeneir. I would certainly like to contine that work, but until I can feel that I am being treated fairly by the powers, I cannot support adding my work to their control.  I told  each of the people I was working with on these projects that this disrespectful treatment of me is the reason I stopped contributing.

But on to the last revelation....  as this thread perhaps nears its end...

NOW WHAT IN THE WORLD IS #4???  :whistling:

me


Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Volki on May 17, 2015, 01:04:47 am
You're actually a woman.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Rigwyn on May 17, 2015, 01:27:06 am
I think he's going to string us along and make us beg for the final revelation and when it's revealed, we shall crawl on our bellies and gnash our teeth.

(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b300/spacemonkey_fg/Blog%20Pictures/Seven3.jpg)

Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: cdmoreland on May 17, 2015, 07:49:16 am
Well, I for one would never hold your age against you, I'm 63.  ;D

I don't have the skill-set that many in-game have. I  was a truck driver until my heart attack and quadruple bypass and my sternum won't heal. I have never liked text-based rp and really don't want to read desc. that are pages long. I do enjoy the interaction with other players.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Pierre on May 17, 2015, 12:28:40 pm
 :love: all the revelations

cdmoreland hope your sternum will eventually knit itself back together...
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Demagul Riwe on May 17, 2015, 06:07:23 pm
With each revelation my mind is blown yet again. By now I'm pretty sure I'm one of the youngest active RPers in the game...  :innocent:
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Caraick on May 18, 2015, 12:48:57 am
Semester's over, so I've got more time to bug you all on the forums.  Just so happens that this is the first thread I've come across.  Hope I'm not giving anything away here, but I can insert a bit of fun into the game with Revelation 3.5!  Roled and I went to the same university!  :woot: \\o// :sorcerer:

Fortunately, I've still got another year or two until I've graduated.  Since Roled is just a few years older than me ( ;) RoRo), he's the only one of us who can say he's graduated from here.  ;D
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: KayKay76 on May 18, 2015, 01:56:36 am
Thank you for sharing RR. From these revelations, it was nice to discover, after the years I have played ps, that I am not after all the only oldest in real age here. I am not alone.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Candy on May 18, 2015, 09:25:14 pm
Don't be so sure, Demagul - I don't know about active players, but I'm told kids as young as eight have been on this game on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Roled on May 18, 2015, 09:44:37 pm

And so, to revelation(s) #4.

It has a few parts, including faith and phenomena. I think of it as the Truth Paradox.

In real life, I believe in the truths of paradox- both from philosophic studies and from manifested phenomenology. To state it more simply, because I've studied paradox a lot and because I experience it in my life and the lives of people I live with and love, I am convinced that there is no single truth to anything. I'm loaded with skepticism about the existence of truth and convinced that there are many utterly contradictory realities existing concurrently. My birthday is not Roled's, “fool” that he is.  “I am a Gemini and so am I.”

THE POINT(S): Why have I posted this series of personal revelations? To illustrate the parabolas and parallels between Roled's personality and story is to my experienced life. To clarify the “horizon of history” (Gadamer) that fashions my perceptions. To show contradictions AND consistencies, in light of this controversy about equity in the experienced real world, in the game ICly and in game's mechanics that limit equality. To point out that truth and belief are not synonymous. To affirm that individual's experiences are valid and cannot be said not to exist. In philosophy, it's referred to as agency. In game, we name it as a part of “godmodding”- telling other people what you think they think, or what you think they mean, as if your view were true.

PHENOMENA:  My life is full of paradox.  I typically describe myself as a straight, low income,  partially disabled stand-up comic, singer/songwriter and former summer league amateur first baseman, whose careers have been simultaneously as a producing and performing theatre artist and as an accountant and non-profit consultant – some of the phenomenology of my existence.  My hobbies are crossword puzzles, science, math, progressive social justice, music, history, writing, philosophy, comedy, opera, environmental activism, my dog and PlaneShift.  Roled's player is a racially identified Caucasian [thereby socially conditioned in white privilege] child of a biologically and self identified male Dad and a biologically and self identified female Mom, who grew up in the socially and economically privileged and segregated strata of a middle class subdivision in [still historically secessionist Confederate influenced] Northern Virginia six miles from Washington D.C.

FAITH:  By “faith”- belief based on paradigms and socialized world views- I'm simultaneously Roman Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, ecumenical, agnostic and Wiccan;. I was raised, baptized and confirmed in a High Episcopal [for you Brits think Anglican] mainstream Protestant church. I'm now an active member of a Roman Catholic Parish and think Pope Francis is terrific.  We were married by three “holys” we called them, [a Jesuit Priest, a Franciscan Father, and a Psychic Priestess of Divine Love] with a mostly African American gospel choir [of which I was a member] singing and a Native American friend who smudged and blessed and drummed our wedding.  I'm also a practicing American Buddhist who has been part of the sangha of several Wiccan and Gaian communities for most of my adult life. I read Tarot for my friends, talk philosophy of neuroscience with scientifically inclined folks, and think the big bang is a pretty good theory for now until and if “we” learn more. 

PARADIGMS:  In my view, each humanly debated 'truth' is valid only up to the limitations of human capacity for knowledge, experience, inclusion, understanding, insight, inspiration, community, growth and change. Humans are massively limited beings who often mistake our own particular lives as “proof” of “universal” truth. We on Earth experience ourselves through the lens of social conditioning, history, and unrecorded or hidden history.  In the USA, we are educated in a silo-ed institutionalized system that separates knowledge pools into disciplines that too often [imho] ignores the insights of interdisciplinary study. I think we humans really have no idea what, if anything, might be universal. If anything is actually universal, by definition of the symbol we recognize as the word “true,” it must be true throughout the entire scope of time, of expanding space, of the cosmos, with not one single anomaly. Ever.  I believe we can edge closer to experiential probabilities and never get there no matter how many arrows seem to be headed right towards the bulls eye. As Tom Stoppard the British playwright said in Jumpers, “Saint Sebastian died of fright.”

These are the particulars I planned to reveal. Oh, yeah, and I am biologically female. Three of my in-game friends discerned my real life gender within a week or so of role playing with me. Made me wonder why- and I determined to role play in a more nuanced and cross stereotypical way- addressing age, gender, sexual attraction, friendship, age, and motivations.  Most of my friends in game know.  If you read this far and didn't now I'm in real life a woman, well, now you know.

THE HEART OF MY REVELATION #4:  I care about equity and influence. This is the main reason I have played PlaneShift for eight years. The person, my friend, who introduced me to PS and sat next to me as I learned this arcane thing called a video game, left PS because they experienced a high degree of bullying, sexism and homophobia in character role play, in gossip comments and especially in dealing with the powers on the development and art teams. That person is extremely talented, was a developer and writer, a technical genius, and is yet another loss in the PS community.  I didn't think it was fair. So, I promised myself I would play a male gay warrior hero character who was emotional and philosophical. I determined to level stats so I could compete, make friends ICly and OOCly if I could, and see how deep the homophobia and sexism was embedded in this particular game's leadership.  I fear I have found the phenomenological answer.

Unless you have questions, this is all I intended to address in this thread.  I wanted to spread it out over time to see what might happen within the leadership concerning these issues of inequity. And because I hoped it might be more fun for some of us.

Thanks so much for playing with me. Thanks for reading.  For those who do, thanks for caring.  :love:

me
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Rigwyn on May 18, 2015, 10:54:59 pm
I hope this isn't a manifesto... or the prequel to an exit notice.

No doubt you have gleaned some biases and prejudices, but if you will let me put on the horns and play devil's advocate for a moment, at what point is the level of biases tolerable? We all have biases one way or another, so expecting sterility is obviously flawed, and so too is the expectation of a near-sterile environment.  On the other end of the spectrum, flat out bullying and harassment is definitely intolerable, but should there not be a middle ground where the level of undesirable bias and prejudice can be accepted as background noise?

"I fear I have found the phenomenological answer."

I'm curious about your findings with regard to players and non-players, but don't want to derail your thread.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Volki on May 19, 2015, 03:06:34 am
Quote
Roled's player is a racially identified Caucasian [thereby socially conditioned in white privilege] child of a biologically and self identified male Dad and a biologically and self identified female Mom, who grew up in the socially and economically privileged and segregated strata of a middle class subdivision in [still historically secessionist Confederate influenced] Northern Virginia six miles from Washington D.C.

White privilege doesn't exist. Rich privilege exists. White privilege does not. I was born where you lived, but moved to some very racist places. As a little white girl, I was picked on and beaten by other children. I didn't know it at the time, but it was because of my skin color. It made me very violent. So f*** that noise. Identity politics is a curse on humanity.

I agree with most everything else you said, especially in that paragraph titled "paradigms."

As a woman playing a woman, I don't see any sexism inherent in the game. Nor do I think the developers are sexist. I prefer a more realistic approach to dimorphism, but Planeshift offers perfect equality instead. Everyone is forced to defend the realm, instead of just sending the men and leaving the women at home. That would make for a boring game, though.

As for homophobia? I don't see it. I honestly don't think I've ever seen any OOC homophobia in this game. My character is not homophobic, but she certainly uses it as a means of slandering other characters. She wrote an all-caps poem about a dwarf she didn't like, with reference to Roled. There is a law against racism, but none against homophobia, and as same-sex marriage is not allowed I assumed same-sex relationships were frowned upon (at least publicly). The developers never commented on my thread asking about this, so I still don't know what the official IC stance is on homosexuality.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

edit: I forgot to address homophobia from the developers... Honestly, I don't think they are homophobic. I think they don't know what to do about it. I wish Talad would clear this up, because right now we're left to wonder, and not everyone assumes the same answer.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Siteya on May 19, 2015, 12:39:02 pm
Holy Mother Xiosia!!! I yelled out, "Yes!!!" with wild laughter after every revelation. Lhaa, who has a knack for figuring out everyone, was extremely floored, he could not even believe the first few revelations were real. Thanks for sharing and now I know who to send my writing to for review. :P  Oh how I love that energetic, passionate elf called Roled!
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Roled on May 23, 2015, 01:06:48 pm
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32856232

Very concise reasoning for including equity in Ireland's constitution from this article from the BBC.
"What 'yes' vote would mean

The Republic of Ireland has a written constitution which can only be changed by referendum.

If the proposal is passed, a marriage between two people of the same sex would have the same status under the Irish constitution as a marriage between a man and a woman.

They would be recognised as a family and be entitled to the constitutional protection for families.

Civil partnerships for same-sex couples have been legal in Ireland since 2010, giving couples legal protection which could be changed by the government.

However, if the vote is passed, married gay people would have a constitutional standing that could only be removed by another popular vote."
Today I am proud of my Irish heritage...
/me
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Tuathanach on May 23, 2015, 01:31:38 pm
Roled they voted Yes (bbc) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-32858501) by about 2:1. \\o//
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Roled on May 23, 2015, 05:10:39 pm
\\o//     \\o//      \\o//
 IRELAND! POPULISM!  HUMAN RIGHTS! LOVE IN ACTION!!
 \\o//    \\o//    \\o//
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Siteya on May 23, 2015, 10:23:41 pm
Yay!!!! Happy Dance!!!
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Caraick on May 23, 2015, 10:48:16 pm
It is a sad day when civil rights must be confirmed by a referendum to grant them.  The purpose of civil rights is that they are beyond the opinion of a government, or a majority of its people.  A majority of certain world governments believe that minorities and pluralities of its people groups do not have the right to vote, marry, or travel freely.  The majority should not have to confirm a right of a minority because, sadly, there are countries where the majority will not voice their opinion as the majority of Ireland did.

While I hope that other countries do not call basic human rights to a vote, I am glad that it worked for Ireland.  \\o// Happy day, indeed.  :)
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Wocib on May 24, 2015, 02:56:21 am
\\o//     \\o//      \\o//
IRELAND! POPULISM!  HUMAN RIGHTS! LOVE IN ACTION!!

OK, now Roled should stop bothering us with the LGBT thing, just leave Hydlaa and move to Dublin.
YLIAN RIGHT !

OH btw  is there any one who really care about those revelations ? (tell the truth please), If not you must tell Roled...
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Roled on May 24, 2015, 03:45:09 am
Thanks Wocib-
a dozen or so folks have already told me personally they do "care" about the revelations. Several others even read the thread and say they appreciated the philosophic analysis.

 If you have the ability, you might read:

Online Games and Racism, Sexism, and Homophobia by Tanner Higgin, or

Institutional Racism: A Primer on Theory and Strategies for Social Change by Shirley Better, or

Gender and Feminism in Online Games, by Jennifer Jenson, Suzanne de Castell Abstract: "Online games vary widely and are often characterized by gender stereotypes and intense gender normative policing (by players, as well as developers)."  or

Sexism in online video games: The role of conformity to masculine norms and social dominance orientation
by J Fox, WY Tang - Computers in Human Behavior, 2014 or,
 
"Performance, Masculinity, and Conformation: How Males Learn Manliness" by Keith Moore, Abstract: "This literature review will examine the ways in which scholars discuss the socialization of young males as they learn the notion of “proper” masculinity, specific gender expectations, and masculine performance. The literature included also examines the mechanisms of how gender expectations manifest themselves and are forced upon young men via adult male roles. Examining articles regarding different stages of male development, from adolescent to adult, scholars can evaluate how males construct masculinity in all-male environments and the portrayal of “normal” male behavior. The discourse surrounding masculinity as a learned social phenomenon is important as it holds strong implications for the influence of society in the construction of heteronormative ideals for gender, especially masculinity."

or "Griefing: Policing Masculinity in Online Games" by Staci Tucker, : Abstract: "Despite the rise in participation and economic importance of online games as a media phenomenon, ever-growing virtual worlds that seemingly exist as "third places" for social interaction and relationship formation, there is little research on the experiences of gamers with harassment, discrimination, and hate speech. Though changes in the industry serve as evidence of shifting attitudes about female, GLBTQ, and non-white gamers, harassment and use of hate speech based on sex and sexual orientation continue to flourish unchecked in online games. This study explores the prevalence of homophobia and sexism in online games as expressed through "griefing" behavior used to police competitive spaces traditionally dominated by white, heterosexual men. This thesis employs qualitative research methods to illuminate the persisting homophobia, sexism, and racism as experienced by gamers in online console and PC games."

Thanks for the congratulations Wocib and for asking your question so nicely!
/me
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Wocib on May 24, 2015, 04:12:08 am
Thanks Wocib
(...)
Thanks for the congratulations Wocib and for asking your question so nicely!
/me

You're welcome...
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Volki on May 24, 2015, 12:14:34 pm
Keep your social justice away from gaming, Roles. PLEASE.

This thread doesn't belong in General .

This thread is already breaking several rules.

You have no idea what it is like to be a real man. You don't even play the games that feminists are currently attacking. You have no idea how damaging it is to spread this narrative of sexism in gaming.

And it has nothing to do with homophobia. So what is that last post about? Your agenda is becoming tiring.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: verden on May 24, 2015, 02:00:31 pm
Political agendas do not belong in this game. All these posts across multiple threads and not one mention of Laanxian beliefs that might have bearing on the concept as applied in Yliakum. It would be nice to see posts about Planeshift in this forum again.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Rigwyn on May 24, 2015, 02:36:15 pm

This thread doesn't belong in General .
...
You have no idea what it is like to be a real man.

Currently, this thread is in Hydlaa Plaza.  It seems it was moved. That's fine. I agree that Hydlaa Plaza is a better place for it.

This is an interesting point and a good one to discuss. This is one of those things that one can come close to understanding via simulation and I believe that was one of Roled's intentions. To come a bit closer to understanding what it might be like to be a gay male in a gaming environment (well, a very small gaming environment in this case). This sort of exercise whether online or in real life should help a person to expand their knowledge and experience. I don't see how this is a bad thing. Sometimes to gain empathy or insight, it helps to try to see things from another person's perspective.

With regard to some of the behavior you see among late teen to young adult males, some of this is just characteristic of where they are in their mental/physical development at this time in their lives. Many will go through a very "masculine", power driven, awesomeness-seeking phase. Call it what you will. This does not excuse excessive behavior, but I think it does explain quite a bit of it. Expecting young men to act like anything other then young men is not going to work. It's like standing on the beach and telling the waves that they should be still and calm.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Volki on May 25, 2015, 12:12:09 pm
I also very much like young men. Most of my friends are young men, and my best friend is a young man. If a man wants to be masculine, let him. It's natural. He'll go nuts if he can't. Women should be allowed to be feminine as well. It's natural. Sometimes natural for people is not being what they are expected to be. I'm very masculine for a girl. My gamer friends love it.

Roled, a lot of those academic papers claiming that gaming is over-masculine, sexist, homophobic, etc simply exist because of political agendas and money generation. People take academia far too seriously. What you may call sexist, I call friendly teasing. I know you're female (and old, no offense), so you don't really get it, but when guys play sports or games together, they say horrible things about each other. It's all play, though. My friends and I call each other all manners of horrible words. We've been targeted by the media for decades now. Coming onto a forum for a game and saying that gamers is are homophobes and sexists is extremely naive.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Pierre on May 25, 2015, 12:24:03 pm
Ireland  :flowers:  And Roledito  :flowers:.  Keep sharing please.

Holy Mother Xiosia!!! I yelled out, "Yes!!!" with wild laughter after every revelation. Lhaa, who has a knack for figuring out everyone, was extremely floored, he could not even believe the first few revelations were real. Thanks for sharing and now I know who to send my writing to for review. :P  Oh how I love that energetic, passionate elf called Roled!

Ditto  :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Roled on June 05, 2015, 02:01:17 am
I REST MY CASE

6-2-2015
When a woman or man stands up for justice, the heaven's sing and the world rejoices.
When a woman or man stands up for justice and is struck down, the heaven's weep and the world mourns.
” 
Cesar Chavez

Dear Once and Future Friends: [as always read or don't, as you wish.]

Well, I did what I said I would do, which was to work for equality in the game as well as in the rules of the game. I promised to take the risk of standing up for justice [revelation#4].  Fortunately I didn't have to take that risk alone. Thank you PS community members for Justice and Equality!

\\o//  \\o// We've succeeded!  \\o//  \\o//

 And we, in our various ways, have undertaken this work of justice together.

Now I rest my case. A 'case' that has escalated well beyond buttons or whether Roled was or wasn't IC and instead reaches to the heart of many of the managerial systems of PS.

Players succeeded in:
                :detective: Raising issues of systemic inequality. Those who were threatened by discussing such issues reacted in revealing ways.
 
Players succeeded in:
                :detective: Allowing the embedded homophobia, sexism, anti-democratic perspectives and domination of the managerial tier to reveal itself.  The hostility toward those who questioned management revealed itself in name-calling, attempts to discount valid player concerns, attempts to shift blame, bullying tactics , censorship and snark. The authoritarianism used by management (and some players) against players with whom they disagree was exposed for all to read.

Players succeeded in:
              :detective: Exposing the culture of PS leadership: Which seems to be, to operate from a "we", "they" position of supposed inequality; to protect their "own" even when unjust;  to assume their power is unquestionable; to deflect criticism and questions whenever possible; to punish unnecessarily to scare off dissent; to limit community and democracy; to try to isolate people; to refuse to identify written procedures or manuals of conduct expected from GMs and other managerial representatives,  and to refuse to discuss publicly the effects of unwritten codes of conduct on players. Allow for no way unfair treatments might be rescinded. Try to make people shut up through intimidation.

Players succeeded in:
              :detective: Showing that when arguing for greater equality in PS using tools of logic, philosophy, personal experiences,  the management representatives (and some players) used censorship, disparagement and threats to avoid explaining why they thought their positions were valid. Logical substantiation was not offered.

Those who dared to join the discussion on the side of inclusiveness also were subjected to attempts to demean and discount their perspectives, I am so sorry that happened.

We players won by bringing managerial dysfunction out into the open, hopefully to be addressed respectfully and rectified.

Friends, I am sorry, very sorry, that some of you received the same bullying treatment here that I have received.  :(  I thank you for your bravery.  And to those who privately sent me messages of support, thank you. I appreciate it. I still do.

Of course, idealist that I am, I still hope that management might engage in self-reflection, open feedback loops, realize the virtues of plurality, study successful contemporary volunteer management theory and practice, and choose to try to re-build an inclusive community where players have positive interactions with managers. I hope PS might join the ranks of progressive people, organizations and institutions worldwide in the work of inclusiveness and equity. It would be great to say, PS is an example of freedom and justice!

It sure would be nicer to feel proud to contribute to PS rather than to feel used and treated like minions in a couple of engineer's exclusive and secretive sandbox.

I rest my case.  Here I stand.

Where do you stand?

Our collective future is your choice after all.  Are you willing to be complicit?  OR????

Why, friends, do we level our strength, endurance, charisma, agility and intelligence, but to participate in the work of Justice and Equality?

RR's player bows with great respect to the heroic citizens of lands, virtual and oh so real,
/me

P.S.  Concurrently posted on FB and the PS forum.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Candy on June 05, 2015, 02:45:26 am
The team culture has always been a sore point with me -  I remember as a new player, I asked a simple settings question and was condescended to instead of answered. Years later I was "accidentally" excluded in an effort to volunteer for the project - the common response to "x is wrong with PlaneShift" is "Join the team and fix it". It's hard to do when you try and they say "Welcome to the team, now @#$% off". The team members have changed since, but this whole debate has proven that there is still too much of that negative attitude there. It'd be depressing to see a game that caters to such a unique niche of players fail. I hope something will be done to fix the dysfunction.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Volki on June 05, 2015, 02:29:09 pm
Phase do not use Chavez's quotes for your ridiculous witch hunt.

I am not a sexist, a homophobe, or anti-democracy. You absolute bully. You come to a community which you do not understand, label the demographic all these horrible words, and ignore the context of this game in the larger gaming culture.

You have been bullying me and others for far too long, Roled. I can't believe I am siding with the developers here, but I must. Your crusade is unjust. This is a game, a hobby. There is no room for your corrupted social justice here. You spew lies about so many people, and yet are allowed to continue for unknown reasons. The developers are very forgiving, perhaps too forgiving, but I might not still be around if not for that.

Pick your battles. Your efforts are better spent in the physical realm, not here publicly shaming hobbyists.

Oh, and it's quite telling that when you attack authoritarianism in a game, you must have no issue with it in the real world. If you did, you would realize what you are doing yourself is pedestaling your own authoritarian ideology over that of another. As a libertarian, I am disgusted.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Venalan on June 05, 2015, 06:34:29 pm
I haven't said anything publicly on this topic yet, but now feel I want too.

I only speak for myself, but I must say as a senior developer and therefore part of the management tier of PlaneShift Roled keeps talking of I am somewhat hurt with comments aimed towards me. When you were nice enough to inform me you had decided to step back from working on PlaneShift I had no hard feelings about it, you were spending your free time writing some very nice quests for PlaneShift and were free to start/stop as you pleased. I also decided that with all the craziness which had gone on if you ever decided you wanted to return to contributing I would, as I had been for a long time, work with you on adding content to PlaneShift. But now I would think twice about it.

I have had a lot of respect for you; personally, for your work in the community, and the content you created. However, the statements you have been making and things you have been saying, aimed directly or indirectly at me as a PlaneShift Developer, have gone a long way to knocking this way down. I don't feel your comments and opinions reflect me as a Developer in either the work I do or how I behave, me as a Player, or me as a Person.

Please realise that public attacks, direct or shrouded in metaphor, aimed at the team or individuals therein are almost entirely counter productive. I would not be surprised if many in the team feel as I do.

Venalan.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: ecirtaeB on June 06, 2015, 05:52:04 am
/sigh

This is a game, a hobby.

This. It has already been pointed out in other threads as well, but please, let's keep in mind that this is a game. Not real. Yliakum is not the real world and obviously isn't intended to mimic it in everything in every way. It is a fictional world of its own built with its own set of rules.

If a storyteller were making up a tale, I wouldn't find fault with someone in the audience pointing out a valid inconsistency about an aspect of the story, something that should be this or that way. But I would find it rather annoying if someone keeps interrupting the tale and insisting that some aspect of it could be a certain other way instead. And sure, yeah, it could but it's up to the storyteller on how to tell his/her tale.

When it comes to same-sex relationship/marriage IG, if it were up to me, I would have gone with it being accepted in general throughout the history of Yliakum, or accepted only among certain races. And it wouldn't be purely as a show of support for homosexuals IRL. Now if the project leader/dev team decide to make it so that same-sex marriages aren't legally recognised IG, that's fine as well IMO. It doesn't necessarily mean that any of them are against homosexuals IRL. Again, I'd like to stress on this, Yliakum is a fictional world of its own. I understand that you have issue with the GM warning you received but frankly, I think you have gone too far with these accusations of homophobia and what-not against the PS team...

Game is meant to be fun in the shaping of it by PS team and players alike. Might not always allow you to play a character in a particular way you would like to but guess what, fun can be had in lots of ways.

Make up and kiss already! .-.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: verden on June 06, 2015, 06:17:39 am
What a load of tripe. You didn't play this game under the old GM team. You have no idea what oppression in a video game is.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Pierre on June 06, 2015, 11:02:04 am
It's a game created by and played by humans.  So things happen that also happen IRL - some of us playing wanted gay marriage to be legal - team said (via Eonwind) that it wasn't legal and that any gay marriages were OOC.

Roled created an event and the character spoke of the illegality of gay marriage and wanting to bring the issue before the god(s).  His player was given a warning during his own event for being OOC.

The way the situation was dealt with afterward - no apologies, no retraction of the warning (after a warning you get a kick then a ban, warnings are not toothless) and from some few corners personally attacking RR - showed that we as a community have areas in need of improvement (let's say).

That's very clear from anyone following the threads.  Serious insults are left to stand.  The logs - which show an event totally derailed by the GM team - are ignored, and I say ignored because they show clearly that he was IC all the way through and that the warning was unwarranted.

This didn't get addressed or fixed by anyone on the team - so it is natural, even if not correct, to assume that the team as a whole suffers from the issues raised by RR and others.

I appreciate Candy and Venalan addressing the issues.

I'll do my best to stay off the thread since RR is my friend and the flamers and trolls are best neatly avoided  :love: :love: :love:

EDIT:  I better give credit though - in the threads from the event fallout, there was some seriously decent moderating.  Not all insults stood, I was wrong about that, apologies and gratitude to the team for attending to it.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: MishkaL1138 on June 06, 2015, 03:59:35 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/ES5owO7.gif)

Just go play the monday-sunday game, guys. I'm starting to smell the fried brains over here. For your own good, play the game. I don't want to pick up the liquefied brains from the ground when they start pouring from your nostrils.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Wocib on June 25, 2015, 01:20:54 pm
Well, in some other countries than yours (which isnt the world's center), Mariages can only be religious, so your post once again doesnt really means something.
Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Pierre on June 25, 2015, 01:53:22 pm
Ha, alarming and interesting short article Roledito.  I didn't realize that one of the US supreme court justices is quite ignorant about a topic he knew he'd be discussing that day.  Do your homework, creature.

/me shakes her head.

And Wocib, RR's post contains information about one part of the globe.  It's relevant.  The fact that many countries, particularly in the Middle East, do not have civil marriages, is another piece of information that could also be relevant if you have any articles that discuss the issues RR is bringing up in his thread.


Title: Re: Four revelations and a ????
Post by: Volki on June 25, 2015, 08:19:00 pm
He's saying Roled's point of view suffers ethnocentrism.

Roled's experiences are far different and opposite of my own, so it seems she is suffering from an ethnocentric bias even in her own country. I agree with many of Roled's opinions, but there are some extreme ones which I simply can't, due to my own lived experiences.

I fear this is becoming a subversive thread for discussing politics, not for debate but rather a pedestal from which one person can preach her views and ignore criticism. This does not belong on this forum.