Four revelations and a ????

[Caraick]

It is a sad day when civil rights must be confirmed by a referendum to grant them.  The purpose of civil rights is that they are beyond the opinion of a government, or a majority of its people.  A majority of certain world governments believe that minorities and pluralities of its people groups do not have the right to vote, marry, or travel freely.  The majority should not have to confirm a right of a minority because, sadly, there are countries where the majority will not voice their opinion as the majority of Ireland did.

While I hope that other countries do not call basic human rights to a vote, I am glad that it worked for Ireland.  Happy day, indeed. 

[Wocib]

          
IRELAND! POPULISM!  HUMAN RIGHTS! LOVE IN ACTION!!

OK, now Roled should stop bothering us with the LGBT thing, just leave Hydlaa and move to Dublin.

YLIAN RIGHT !

OH btw  is there any one who really care about those revelations ? (tell the truth please), If not you must tell Roled...

[Roled]

Thanks Wocib-
a dozen or so folks have already told me personally they do "care" about the revelations. Several others even read the thread and say they appreciated the philosophic analysis.

 If you have the ability, you might read:

Online Games and Racism, Sexism, and Homophobia by Tanner Higgin, or

Institutional Racism: A Primer on Theory and Strategies for Social Change by Shirley Better, or

Gender and Feminism in Online Games, by Jennifer Jenson, Suzanne de Castell Abstract: "Online games vary widely and are often characterized by gender stereotypes and intense gender normative policing (by players, as well as developers)."  or

Sexism in online video games: The role of conformity to masculine norms and social dominance orientation by J Fox, WY Tang - Computers in Human Behavior, 2014 or,
 
"Performance, Masculinity, and Conformation: How Males Learn Manliness" by Keith Moore, Abstract: "This literature review will examine the ways in which scholars discuss the socialization of young males as they learn the notion of “proper” masculinity, specific gender expectations, and masculine performance. The literature included also examines the mechanisms of how gender expectations manifest themselves and are forced upon young men via adult male roles. Examining articles regarding different stages of male development, from adolescent to adult, scholars can evaluate how males construct masculinity in all-male environments and the portrayal of “normal” male behavior. The discourse surrounding masculinity as a learned social phenomenon is important as it holds strong implications for the influence of society in the construction of heteronormative ideals for gender, especially masculinity."

or "Griefing: Policing Masculinity in Online Games" by Staci Tucker, : Abstract: "Despite the rise in participation and economic importance of online games as a media phenomenon, ever-growing virtual worlds that seemingly exist as "third places" for social interaction and relationship formation, there is little research on the experiences of gamers with harassment, discrimination, and hate speech. Though changes in the industry serve as evidence of shifting attitudes about female, GLBTQ, and non-white gamers, harassment and use of hate speech based on sex and sexual orientation continue to flourish unchecked in online games. This study explores the prevalence of homophobia and sexism in online games as expressed through "griefing" behavior used to police competitive spaces traditionally dominated by white, heterosexual men. This thesis employs qualitative research methods to illuminate the persisting homophobia, sexism, and racism as experienced by gamers in online console and PC games."

Thanks for the congratulations Wocib and for asking your question so nicely!
/me

[Wocib]

Thanks Wocib
(...)
Thanks for the congratulations Wocib and for asking your question so nicely!
/me

You're welcome...

[Volki]

Keep your social justice away from gaming, Roles. PLEASE.

This thread doesn't belong in General .

This thread is already breaking several rules.

You have no idea what it is like to be a real man. You don't even play the games that feminists are currently attacking. You have no idea how damaging it is to spread this narrative of sexism in gaming.

And it has nothing to do with homophobia. So what is that last post about? Your agenda is becoming tiring.

[verden]

Political agendas do not belong in this game. All these posts across multiple threads and not one mention of Laanxian beliefs that might have bearing on the concept as applied in Yliakum. It would be nice to see posts about Planeshift in this forum again.

[Rigwyn]

This thread doesn't belong in General .
...
You have no idea what it is like to be a real man.

Currently, this thread is in Hydlaa Plaza.  It seems it was moved. That's fine. I agree that Hydlaa Plaza is a better place for it.

This is an interesting point and a good one to discuss. This is one of those things that one can come close to understanding via simulation and I believe that was one of Roled's intentions. To come a bit closer to understanding what it might be like to be a gay male in a gaming environment (well, a very small gaming environment in this case). This sort of exercise whether online or in real life should help a person to expand their knowledge and experience. I don't see how this is a bad thing. Sometimes to gain empathy or insight, it helps to try to see things from another person's perspective.

With regard to some of the behavior you see among late teen to young adult males, some of this is just characteristic of where they are in their mental/physical development at this time in their lives. Many will go through a very "masculine", power driven, awesomeness-seeking phase. Call it what you will. This does not excuse excessive behavior, but I think it does explain quite a bit of it. Expecting young men to act like anything other then young men is not going to work. It's like standing on the beach and telling the waves that they should be still and calm.

[Volki]

I also very much like young men. Most of my friends are young men, and my best friend is a young man. If a man wants to be masculine, let him. It's natural. He'll go nuts if he can't. Women should be allowed to be feminine as well. It's natural. Sometimes natural for people is not being what they are expected to be. I'm very masculine for a girl. My gamer friends love it.

Roled, a lot of those academic papers claiming that gaming is over-masculine, sexist, homophobic, etc simply exist because of political agendas and money generation. People take academia far too seriously. What you may call sexist, I call friendly teasing. I know you're female (and old, no offense), so you don't really get it, but when guys play sports or games together, they say horrible things about each other. It's all play, though. My friends and I call each other all manners of horrible words. We've been targeted by the media for decades now. Coming onto a forum for a game and saying that gamers is are homophobes and sexists is extremely naive.

[Pierre]

Ireland    And Roledito  .  Keep sharing please.

Holy Mother Xiosia!!! I yelled out, "Yes!!!" with wild laughter after every revelation. Lhaa, who has a knack for figuring out everyone, was extremely floored, he could not even believe the first few revelations were real. Thanks for sharing and now I know who to send my writing to for review.   Oh how I love that energetic, passionate elf called Roled!

Ditto 

[Roled]

I REST MY CASE

6-2-2015

“When a woman or man stands up for justice, the heaven's sing and the world rejoices.
When a woman or man stands up for justice and is struck down, the heaven's weep and the world mourns.” 
Cesar Chavez

Dear Once and Future Friends: [as always read or don't, as you wish.]

Well, I did what I said I would do, which was to work for equality in the game as well as in the rules of the game. I promised to take the risk of standing up for justice [revelation#4].  Fortunately I didn't have to take that risk alone. Thank you PS community members for Justice and Equality!

  We've succeeded!   

 And we, in our various ways, have undertaken this work of justice together.

Now I rest my case. A 'case' that has escalated well beyond buttons or whether Roled was or wasn't IC and instead reaches to the heart of many of the managerial systems of PS.

Players succeeded in:
                Raising issues of systemic inequality. Those who were threatened by discussing such issues reacted in revealing ways.
 
Players succeeded in:
                Allowing the embedded homophobia, sexism, anti-democratic perspectives and domination of the managerial tier to reveal itself.  The hostility toward those who questioned management revealed itself in name-calling, attempts to discount valid player concerns, attempts to shift blame, bullying tactics , censorship and snark. The authoritarianism used by management (and some players) against players with whom they disagree was exposed for all to read.

Players succeeded in:
              Exposing the culture of PS leadership: Which seems to be, to operate from a "we", "they" position of supposed inequality; to protect their "own" even when unjust;  to assume their power is unquestionable; to deflect criticism and questions whenever possible; to punish unnecessarily to scare off dissent; to limit community and democracy; to try to isolate people; to refuse to identify written procedures or manuals of conduct expected from GMs and other managerial representatives,  and to refuse to discuss publicly the effects of unwritten codes of conduct on players. Allow for no way unfair treatments might be rescinded. Try to make people shut up through intimidation.

Players succeeded in:
              Showing that when arguing for greater equality in PS using tools of logic, philosophy, personal experiences,  the management representatives (and some players) used censorship, disparagement and threats to avoid explaining why they thought their positions were valid. Logical substantiation was not offered.

Those who dared to join the discussion on the side of inclusiveness also were subjected to attempts to demean and discount their perspectives, I am so sorry that happened.

We players won by bringing managerial dysfunction out into the open, hopefully to be addressed respectfully and rectified.

Friends, I am sorry, very sorry, that some of you received the same bullying treatment here that I have received.    I thank you for your bravery.  And to those who privately sent me messages of support, thank you. I appreciate it. I still do.

Of course, idealist that I am, I still hope that management might engage in self-reflection, open feedback loops, realize the virtues of plurality, study successful contemporary volunteer management theory and practice, and choose to try to re-build an inclusive community where players have positive interactions with managers. I hope PS might join the ranks of progressive people, organizations and institutions worldwide in the work of inclusiveness and equity. It would be great to say, PS is an example of freedom and justice!

It sure would be nicer to feel proud to contribute to PS rather than to feel used and treated like minions in a couple of engineer's exclusive and secretive sandbox.

I rest my case.  Here I stand.

Where do you stand?

Our collective future is your choice after all.  Are you willing to be complicit?  OR?

Why, friends, do we level our strength, endurance, charisma, agility and intelligence, but to participate in the work of Justice and Equality?

RR's player bows with great respect to the heroic citizens of lands, virtual and oh so real,
/me

P.S.  Concurrently posted on FB and the PS forum.

[Candy]

The team culture has always been a sore point with me -  I remember as a new player, I asked a simple settings question and was condescended to instead of answered. Years later I was "accidentally" excluded in an effort to volunteer for the project - the common response to "x is wrong with PlaneShift" is "Join the team and fix it". It's hard to do when you try and they say "Welcome to the team, now @#$% off". The team members have changed since, but this whole debate has proven that there is still too much of that negative attitude there. It'd be depressing to see a game that caters to such a unique niche of players fail. I hope something will be done to fix the dysfunction.

[Volki]

Phase do not use Chavez's quotes for your ridiculous witch hunt.

I am not a sexist, a homophobe, or anti-democracy. You absolute bully. You come to a community which you do not understand, label the demographic all these horrible words, and ignore the context of this game in the larger gaming culture.

You have been bullying me and others for far too long, Roled. I can't believe I am siding with the developers here, but I must. Your crusade is unjust. This is a game, a hobby. There is no room for your corrupted social justice here. You spew lies about so many people, and yet are allowed to continue for unknown reasons. The developers are very forgiving, perhaps too forgiving, but I might not still be around if not for that.

Pick your battles. Your efforts are better spent in the physical realm, not here publicly shaming hobbyists.

Oh, and it's quite telling that when you attack authoritarianism in a game, you must have no issue with it in the real world. If you did, you would realize what you are doing yourself is pedestaling your own authoritarian ideology over that of another. As a libertarian, I am disgusted.

[Venalan]

I haven't said anything publicly on this topic yet, but now feel I want too.

I only speak for myself, but I must say as a senior developer and therefore part of the management tier of PlaneShift Roled keeps talking of I am somewhat hurt with comments aimed towards me. When you were nice enough to inform me you had decided to step back from working on PlaneShift I had no hard feelings about it, you were spending your free time writing some very nice quests for PlaneShift and were free to start/stop as you pleased. I also decided that with all the craziness which had gone on if you ever decided you wanted to return to contributing I would, as I had been for a long time, work with you on adding content to PlaneShift. But now I would think twice about it.

I have had a lot of respect for you; personally, for your work in the community, and the content you created. However, the statements you have been making and things you have been saying, aimed directly or indirectly at me as a PlaneShift Developer, have gone a long way to knocking this way down. I don't feel your comments and opinions reflect me as a Developer in either the work I do or how I behave, me as a Player, or me as a Person.

Please realise that public attacks, direct or shrouded in metaphor, aimed at the team or individuals therein are almost entirely counter productive. I would not be surprised if many in the team feel as I do.

Venalan.

[ecirtaeB]

/sigh

This is a game, a hobby.

This. It has already been pointed out in other threads as well, but please, let's keep in mind that this is a game. Not real. Yliakum is not the real world and obviously isn't intended to mimic it in everything in every way. It is a fictional world of its own built with its own set of rules.

If a storyteller were making up a tale, I wouldn't find fault with someone in the audience pointing out a valid inconsistency about an aspect of the story, something that should be this or that way. But I would find it rather annoying if someone keeps interrupting the tale and insisting that some aspect of it could be a certain other way instead. And sure, yeah, it could but it's up to the storyteller on how to tell his/her tale.

When it comes to same-sex relationship/marriage IG, if it were up to me, I would have gone with it being accepted in general throughout the history of Yliakum, or accepted only among certain races. And it wouldn't be purely as a show of support for homosexuals IRL. Now if the project leader/dev team decide to make it so that same-sex marriages aren't legally recognised IG, that's fine as well IMO. It doesn't necessarily mean that any of them are against homosexuals IRL. Again, I'd like to stress on this, Yliakum is a fictional world of its own. I understand that you have issue with the GM warning you received but frankly, I think you have gone too far with these accusations of homophobia and what-not against the PS team...

Game is meant to be fun in the shaping of it by PS team and players alike. Might not always allow you to play a character in a particular way you would like to but guess what, fun can be had in lots of ways.

Make up and kiss already! .-.

[verden]

What a load of tripe. You didn't play this game under the old GM team. You have no idea what oppression in a video game is.