Author Topic: Feelings and responsibility  (Read 8405 times)

gonger

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2016, 04:35:45 am »

Do you know what a progressive is?

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adjective
1.
favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, especially in political matters:

Progressives are the aggressive ones.

I fail to see the "aggressive" in your quoted definition. Without moving our fine butts, we are not getting out of the current situation. Progressive, not aggressive.

Please allow me to correct your assumption: All crime statistics show that speaking in percentages, the migrants / refugees commit considerably less crimes then Germans, and most of their crimes are minor, like shoplifting. Yes, there have been some rapes by migrants / refugees, but far less then by long-time residents of Germany, be they foreigners or Germans.

This is the exact opposite of what I've heard and seen. Care to back any of that up? As far as I'm aware, statistics haven't had time to be published.

Statistics are published regularly, and it is not that refugees are arriving only since yesterday in Germany. Some links:
http://www.morgenpost.de/politik/article207055921/BKA-Kriminalitaet-durch-Zuwanderer-moderat-gestiegen.html
http://videos.huffingtonpost.de/politik/bka-bericht-diese-zahlen-zeigen-die-wahrheit-ueber-kriminalitaet-bei-fluechtlingen_id_5290630.html
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/panorama/kriminalitaet-kriminalitaetsstatistik-von-zuwanderern-viele-bagatellen-wenig-gewalt-1.2867476
http://www.taz.de/!5277913/
etc

Please give your sources as well.

And, yes, there have been cases of sexual molestation and even rape, and these must be persecuted by the full strength of the Law.


Rigwyn

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2016, 04:51:42 am »
First off, we don't hate Trump because he "speaks his mind."  We hate him because he is a bumbling, megalomaniac xenophobe who has absolutely no idea how to run a country.

How many of the other candidates have experience running the country?
Zip.
This is a new experience for any candidate unless they are being re-elected, and with it comes a sharp learning curve.

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  He thinks all Mexicans are criminals and rapists and all Muslims are terrorists.

That is not what he's said and is not accurate. Replace the "all" with "some" and you'll be a bit closer.  As for what he thinks, it's not knowable and not really relevant.

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  His most concrete plans involve building walls, doing "something" about Muslims, and replacing Obamacare with "IDK something better."

What's interesting about this point is that when candidates spout off about specific plans, they typically don't carry through once elected. I suspect it's because they are not privy to the whole story until they are in. ( That or they are just spouting bullshit ). Given this, I'm fine with a rough idea and some history of competence in an executive position.

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Trump can't even maintain diplomatic relations with Fox News, who is universally recognized to have a huge bias toward his own side of the aisle.  Can you imagine him at peace talks between Palestine and Israel?  Things would blow up.  More than they already do, I mean.

You have a point there , but I don't think FOX news was interested in supporting him specifically. Remember, he's hitting for the Republicans but he's not bound by them like Cruz and Rubio ( who would be completely helpless without their money ). When a candidate is entirely dependent on their sponsor's money, they are their bitch ( or puppet ). Trump is neither - like Romney( who I despised for reasons not relevant to this topic ) he has his own money and/or means of raising it.

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As far as Socialism goes...that whole thing about the safety net (Welfare, Unemployment, etc) is complete hogwash.  It's often spouted by conservatives in favor of "trickle-down economics," which has been failing to work since at least the Nixon era.  People aren't fundamentally lazy--sure maybe a few of them are.

There are entire communities where people make a lifestyle out of living off of welfare and food stamps. Some kids grow up thinking that "EBT" cards are the same as "DEBIT" cards. ( They are plastic cards that are used to distribute money to poor people electronically - not the same as a card that gives you access to money you have earned. ) I would cite some references, but I really don't want people accusing me of being racist or anti-religious or anti-semetic or whatever. It's a sticky topic. If you want to know more about it, google it.

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But you'll notice the evidence for this is always anecdotal.  When arguing politics with a conservative friend after a few too many G&T's he will inevitably mention his uncle's friend's cousin's wife's roommate who lives in a shack and doesn't work so that he can get welfare.  I'm not saying that these people don't exist, but they are a statistically negligent minority.

Let's see... Bronx, Harlem, Kiryas Joel to name a few. We're not talking about some lazy college kid who found a way to beat the system. ( Not all people in these areas are on welfare, but many are. ) This is not anecdotal. Here's some details of the percentage of folks who are getting food stamps etc...  ( Mind you, these food stamps are paid for by people with jobs - many of which are struggling to feed their own families )
http://frac.org/pdf/ny_times_snap_poverty_formatted.pdf

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Most people who use the safety net want desperately to get off of it. 

I applaud those who are caught by the net, get up and recover. That's one example of proper use. For those who are genuinely disabled or who need a hand temporarily, they too are using this resource as intended.

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Think also about how a wider safety net would likely increase innovation.  For instance, I would love to quit my current job and start a business, but I'm afraid of what will happen if my business fails and I can't pay my rent.

I don't think giving out more money is going to breed incentive. Rewarded behavior tends to repeat. Giving money is essentially giving a reward.

As for starting your own business, I would love to work for myself too, but similarly, I don't know how I would transition from from my job to self employment  AND ensure that I make the same amount of money and benefits or more. I don't think welfare is going to help with that. For that, you probably need to take some business classes or seek a mentor.

Calmus

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2016, 02:45:28 pm »
Of the likely US presidency candidates I don't really think Trump would be the worst choice as US president. Trump is often portrayed as quite radical but another republican candidate Rubio could be much worse in this regard.
I have the impression that Trump is more independent from the US war machinery, Goldmann Sachs and certain other lobbyist groups than Hillary. That might be the reason why much media and most of the other republican establishment doesn't like him.

(for German readers: http://www.heise.de/tp/news/Was-kaeme-mit-Trump-3126805.html )

cdmoreland

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2016, 04:05:24 pm »
Trump is more like Clinton than he is different.

Rubio betrayed the voters of Florida and that is the reason he is in trouble in his home state and is not running again for his senate seat.

Cruz is hated because he says what he believes and will do what he says he will do. Whether you agree with him or not, he is an honorable man.

The USA is different than any other government in the world. We are 50 independent states in a federal union and we are in a fight now to give control back to the states as is stated in the Constitution. I am a citizen of the State of Ohio which makes me a US citizen. The states have different laws and if I move to another state I can become a citizen there.

This election may decide if we remain a republic or lose what is left of our rights.

Eonwind

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2016, 04:35:30 am »
This election may decide if we remain a republic or lose what is left of our rights.

I will just post what I think so you US citizen can really think carefully what and where you would like to go.

I was raised thinking of USA as a paragon of freedom and opportunities, a model for the world to follow up in these moral values. Of course it was all but perfect, just like you would expect from any other human-made things, but it was a positive model.

Nowadays I think it's no longer true.

I will not go down writing in details the many reason why I had to change my mind (sadly) but I will tell you these thoughts are not only based on what I've read or heard from the media but it's mainly based on the experiences of a family member who lived and worked in USA for almost 2 years.

Sorry if the judgment seems a bit harsh, but I write it nonetheless because sometimes to be told by people who lives outside our country how they feel about us, can help us understand better ourselves for good and for bad.

Whatever you will choose, choose carefully!!!

Wocib

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2016, 10:44:08 am »
You can't stop the capitalism, so just accept it or leave...
Until it fails down itself, and I hope as soon as possible.
this world is not governed by government, but by the BANKS...
If you really want to change something... change the banking system,
President are just marionettes
:offtopic:

LigH

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2016, 02:52:38 pm »
Simpsons predicted it...


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MishkaL1138

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2016, 07:33:56 am »
Sorry to burst your bubble, LigH, but that scene is a fabrication. Notice the resemblances, too specific.

"It's all fun and games until someone stabs someone else in the eye."

LigH

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2016, 04:41:19 am »
Blessed be, summing it up in a picture:



People start wondering what could be worse: Electing Trump and letting him ruin the world he doesn't care about — or facing riots of his discipleship when he is somehow rejected... :o
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 04:45:09 am by LigH »

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Volki

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2016, 10:47:14 pm »
tbh I forgot this thread existed.

You're only making my love of Trump greater by spreading lies about him. Seriously. He used to be a joke to me. Now, look what you've done. I'm actually considering voting for the guy.

If progressives and the media didn't lie about him constantly, he wouldn't have as much support. You're repeating company-bought rhetoric and making people want to support him.
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

LigH

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2016, 01:39:18 am »
You cannot lie about Trump. He already does it on his own.

In the federal state Bavaria (south of Germany, somehow similar to Texas in the US), we have a very similar politician named Horst Seehofer. He uses to deny his own opinion twice a day on the average. He proves that the German term of denial/disclaim/repudiating (dementieren) is closely related to dementia. The only relief is that he is unable to rule whole Germany, not to mention the whole earth.

The same lack of concept (even less clue than Bush jr.) together with the position of the president of the USA, instead, is a risk to the whole earth for sure. A lack of concept won't "make America great again". It will be the end of reason. Germany is already joking about preparing for millions of American emigrants...

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Rigwyn

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2016, 05:16:29 am »
LigH,

Which of the current presidential candidates do not lie?

If Trump's "lying" disqualifies him or makes him unfit for election, then does the same logic apply to all the other candidates?

Hillary Clinton lies.
Ted Cruz lies.
Bernie Sanders is full of crap.
Kasich, I don't really know much about to be honest, so I won't brand him as a liar.

The rest of the candidates are far to unpopular to have a chance at this point. They simply won't get enough votes.





LigH

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2016, 11:19:36 am »
If a politician told the truth, he would be unpopular and miss votes. Of course, they all lie to some degree, or don't talk about the whole topic at least. But that's not my main concern. What I find even more disturbing are politicians who do not even seem to have any goals besides being different, unusual, popular. Either getting power or keeping power, depending on the current state. And anything that promises a step into that direction will be said, no matter whether they share the opinion they tell or not. The mind changes with the direction of the wind coming from the people. Until they have the power. Then the wind comes from the lobbies.

One is known to be ultraconservative. Fine, so you know his position. Another says to be socialist. Fine, so you know his position. And then there is one who has a different position for every possible elector...

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Volki

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2016, 02:20:07 pm »
abloobloo

You're your own worst enemy, Ligh.

Who do you want us to vote for? Sanders is probably going to lose to Hillary. Trump has a good chance of becoming the Republican nominee.

If it's Hillary versus Trump, and you think she's less of a liar than him, then wow. You really know nothing about American politics. You have more hate for Trump than I have for Hillary, yet you can't actually explain why Trump is so bad. Hillary has actually gotten innocent people killed. Hillary has completely destroyed prosperous countries. Hillary has paid social media sites to hide negative information about her. Hillary has defended criminals not only with the law, but with her own (im)morality. Hillary has flip-flopped on almost every major issue.

To me, she's the antichrist. At least I have reasons.
Lace dark dreadfull power inside him awakens now fully resultin his former self comin back lord of dark noble house shantae of mevango family lacertus shadowone mevango also knowed as darkblade of shadows

Rigwyn

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Re: Feelings and responsibility
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2016, 04:30:38 pm »
They all have plusses and minuses. I was liking Trump initially, but some of the things he has said lately have seriously dulled my enthusiasm for him. His comments about NATO and nukes are scary and to be honest, your depiction of him as the Joker was pretty good. The other candidates while less comical, are pretty bad too.

If you watch some of the interviews of Ted Cruz, you'll see that he's slippery as an eel - rarely giving a straight answer. He's also a dirty politician and a rather inexperienced one at that. His party committed fraud during the primaries when they mailed letters out to voters in an attempt to manipulate them to vote for him. ( this isn't election fraud technically, because it's only the primaries). Between that and the recent horse shit over Trump's wife ( Cruze's party tried to smear his wife, but it backfired terribly), you have to wonder what kind of dishonest crap he might try to pull as president.

Did I mention that Cruz is a Southern Baptist? These folks are known for dismissing science in favor of their religious beliefs. I don't know if he's as crazy as Ben Carson was, but this is a red flag for me.


Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat, he's a Socilaist - which is rather alien to American politics. He's labeled himself as a Democrat only because he knows he would never get elected if he labeled himself as an independent or a socialist. It's a lie just like his lies about free education, free medical insurance and so on. He wants to raise taxes significantly to pay for these services which means that people who already pay for these services out of their own pocket will now have to pay the govenment for these services instead and use the government's crappy version of these services. This is what happened with "Obama Care". It benefits people who are on welfare ( people who get public assistance from the government like money to live off of ) the most and to everyone else, it's more of  a burden. ( people on welfare do not pay income tax, so for them, it's free )

Hillary is just what you described - a chameleon. She will say anything for your vote and then go off and do whatever she wants. She also has a long long history of questionable business transactions that she and her husband should probably be investigated for. Given the Benghazi incident where people died as a result of her not doing her job, I don't think it's prudent to give her greater responsibilities. ( She is still being investigated by the FBI over the Benghazi incident )

*cough* WATERGATE  *cough*

Anyway... they all kinda suck in ways, but we need to pick one.