RMs

[Lanstri]

I like this idea of having an area where people can post their RP and that it is monitored to a degree.  OOC kept to a minimum is a biggie.

However, I am very wary of having individuals \"preside\" over others RP.  The feeling I\'m getting from all this is that, if your RP is unacceptable.. there will be consequences.  No arguing RP?  What a load of bull that is.  Who died and made this guy Lord and Dictator of RP?  Who is an outsider to someone\'s RP going to settle an argument he knows nothing about?  

What are we supposed to post everything related to our RP here for someone\'s approval?  Why would I want to spend days typing 8 pages of history, spend only 1 day RPing it, and turn around and post the RP on a forum?

I feel that having people who encourage Roleplaying is a novel idea, but to have them take control of it is a far stone\'s throw from encouraging.  

With that said, I can see the good to come of having these positions.  Petty arguments might be avoided, and people will have someone to go to with questions.

  I suppose only time will tell whether this is the greatest blunder in PS history or a marvelous achievement.

[Rerogo]

No, I think you got it wrong. This forum is for review and suggestions for people who have been granted GM powers for the purpose of creating dynamic quests and such. This is not an RP forum, and they are not the high lord of RP, just facilitators.

edit: \\o/ 50 posts! 3 stars!

[Lanstri]

I may very well be absolutely wrong in my assumptions, but it is within the realm of possibility.  I agree with you to a point, and I\'m not trying to bash or argue.  I\'m just trying to highlight the good and the bad in the situation.  As I said, I think this could be a wonderful idea and I am enthusiastic about the new features.  The dynamic quests are an awesome idea.  I just have some concerns.

[Kythag]

Let me set your mind at ease.  I am also very expectant of abuse from other games I have played.  However, everytime I have had issue with someone in game, it has turned out to be a misunderstanding.  This means players and GMs or RMs.  

One incident involved roleplay that got chaotic(therefore, very realistic) and poor dumb Kythag found himself fighting Rogues with one hand tied behind his back(a mine pick in shield hand and barefisted).  It turned out that I  missed some dialogue directed at me(in the confusion).

This will become a blessing instead of the curse you are expecting.  I rush to participate in these events because they are incredinly fun.  Sit back, relax, and enjoy the quests to come.

Kythag

[Karyuu]

OOC arguing over RMs, quests, or completely unrelated things won\'t be taken lightly here. But that\'s it :) Roleplay conflicts, if not encouraged all the time with glee, aren\'t frowned upon - for indeed there is no story without a conflict. But this isn\'t the forum section to post your random stories in - that\'s for the Roleplay Forum. This place exists for the reasons Rerogo mentioned, right now being mainly to discuss past and future roleplay events run by the RM team. No one is going to preside over any roleplay and judge if it is appropriate - unless of course it clearly isn\'t. Your style of roleplay, in anything, isn\'t going to be judged either - unless again it is offensive, not roleplay at all but OOC, etc. But such things don\'t need to be mentioned ;) RMs don\'t stand around in invisible mode, listening to people\'s conversations and deciding whether they are roleplaying \"correctly,\" whatever the heck that means :) During events, they may nudge players in one direction or another to help them, and they may \"possess\" NPCs every now and then, and they could generally make the environment a lot more responsive to players, but they\'re not judges - they do not deal out punishments, discuss consequences, etc. I think there was just a misunderstanding.

[Cha0s]

Let me clarify a few things:
1. There is no such thing as unacceptable role-play. The only exceptions would be if you go out-of-character, change the Planeshift setting, or do things that might be in-character personality-wise, but would be impossible for your character to do (this is just an extension of out-of-character, really).

2. Roleplay here will not be judged in any way shape or form. Roleplay in this forum is required to relate to an event that occurred in-game (not necessarily a RM event... it could be anything that happened in-game, really). In most cases, role-play here should take the form of some sort of reflection on a past event. In-character notices and brief in-character responses to those notices may also be posted here. However, this is not the place to role-play out a fight or argument that hasn\'t happened yet.

3. Roleplay in-game is judged to the extent that if you roleplay extraordinarily well, you may be rewarded (this applies whether you are in an event or not). You will never be penalized for \"bad\" roleplay, though; there is no such thing (see #1 ).

4. The \"do not argue\" issue refers to players differing opinions on events. One player may say, \"That event was terrible.\" Another may say, \"That was the best event ever!\" They can both post these opinions, but they can not argue over them. We will take what they have said into account and do the arguing for them. We just want opinions and facts.

[Verrliit]

Cha0s and Karyuu, et al:

I do not consider anyone who loves PS and wants it to be successful, to be an enemy, no matter how we might have disagreed.  And what I post is genuinely intended to be helpful.

I have not posted until now, because I have been watching, and evaluating what you have been doing here...

Before the praise, the problems:

1. To be blunt, the rules page is worded in such a way, that when it was first posted, I and many others were ready to take you folks apart, or leave the game in disgust.

I have deconstructed that page, and defined what has caused such a reaction.  I invite Cha0s to allow me to assist him with an editing that includes his clarifications here, and will deal with other things that might still be misunderstood.

2.  For you to proclaim yourselves Role-play Masters, was  taken as incredible hubris.  

The responses were not kind, or respectful.

In an effort to help you compensate for this, I will attempt here to change player perception of the name, to something more friendly and positive.

I propose that from this day forward, you be known as RPMs, or \"Spinners\" (of tales and quests...)


Praises:

Why am I giving you my endorsement?

1.  I have been preaching this, almost from my first post: that players take the resources they have been given, and make the best fun that they can think of.

You Spinners are doing the same thing, and are trying to make more fun out of what you have, regardless of what it was intended for.

2.  I have also been saying, that there is no way a canned NPC quest can compete with actually interacting with a human.

You are attempting to use your resources to replace asking for a quest, with unplanned human interactions, and you are exploring how to deal with the unforeseen and unplanned events that follow.

3.  Those GMs who become Spinners will get to play, and have fun in their role as GMs, a lot more of the time.

God knows, you guys certainly need and deserve to have fun.

And if the person you are interacting with, is having fun, chances are, that you will too...


Conclusion:

I have spent hours at a time with Noobs, giving advice, training, and entertaining, but I have never gone to the advice channel, to play the role of user\'s guide.

And I have never wanted to be a GM.  

I have always believed it would make me cranky to miss out on so much of the fun with other players, cease to live the story of Verrliit, and become one who has responsibilities, duties, and is expected either be dealing with the ignorant, disruptive and ill-behaved, or waiting alertly until the next one shows up..

But...

I will be delighted to participate in the next event I can reach, and will give what aid I can during the event, and it\'s analysis.




The Dark Lady
Verrliit

[Keyaz]

They are Roleplay Masters hereafter known as RM\'s. like it or not.

the GM team work on the technical side of in-game, the RM team work on the fun and community side (excluding misbehaviour, naming etc.)

they are two seperate groups, work together under the Developers, like a double helix for instance, they inter twine.

the RM etam is only just being established, and if we can get a hold of the right people soon enough, will be completely official, commands and abilities will be set, people recruited, and thats when the fun really begins.

what cha0s has done is create an idea and work towards obtaining it, well, simply put, it\'s worked, putting much effort into the RM team, as with everyone involved in the work.

to set something straight.

GM\'s can be RM\'s if they so wish to be, fulltime, part time or one time only, they already have the access and abilities to do so, as long as the RM team is happy with their assistance.

an RM however, cannot be a GM in the same means, as its the more serious side (serious as in technical, not as in we work harder ) if an RM decides they want to be a GM they would go about applying the same way everyone does, and will be pout into consideration equally.

to become an RM is yet to be established, of which, I\'ve yet to hunt down and discuss with cha0s about.

as assurance to the safety.... and sanity of roleplayers, I personally will have very little to do with RM activities, unless somethign catches my eye, this is because I can safely say I suck at roleplay :]

*glances over the monologue more*

thats abotu it methinks

[Zan]

I\'m not certain where the whole misunderstanding is coming from. It seems that RM\'s are/were being considered as GM\'s but then for roleplaying instead of the technical ooc part.

The job that Roleplay Masters have is completely different from the one currently filled by Game Masters, however.
GM\'s are a sort of police force. They will watch over the people and make sure that everyone can play and live together decently. They are there to solve disputes and if needed intervene by taking measures against those that chose to disrespect the other players out of character. They also have to make sure the roleplay environment is maintained but this isn\'t always easy to do as an ooc policeforce.

This is where RM\'s come in. Roleplay Masters don\'t police like GM\'s, they don\'t use their time solving disputes, checking the names of players for anything offensive or negative, ... RM\'s simply try to create a better roleplay environment by making the world of Planeshift more interactive and dynamic. They host events or help players who want to host certain events with their abilities. RM\'s are the people that reward good roleplaying but they definitely won\'t punish those that choose not to roleplay or not to join their events. Everyone is free to do as they like as long as it doesn\'t harm others.

Players that purposefully disturb any ongoing events are another matter though but I am guessing those will still be dealt with by GM\'s.

[Cha0s]

Thanks Zan. Just one small thing that I want clarify: speaking out of character in public chat is not acceptable. If I see you while I\'m running an event nearby, or even just doing some NPC impersonating, you will be warned, and if you continue after repeated warnings, you will be muted. Things like \"progression points,\" \"47 slash weapons,\" and \"spawn-points\" do not exist in Planeshift from a character\'s perspective. If you use these terms in public chat after having been warned, you will get a mute. Stay in-character and all will be well.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Verrliit
1. To be blunt, the rules page is worded in such a way, that when it was first posted, I and many others were ready to take you folks apart, or leave the game in disgust.

Very strong emotions. If this is true and has affected more than just a few other players, perhaps we need to \"redecorate\" the sticky.

I have deconstructed that page, and defined what has caused such a reaction.  I invite Cha0s to allow me to assist him with an editing that includes his clarifications here, and will deal with other things that might still be misunderstood.

You are free to post and discuss your deconstructions here, since I and no doubt many others would too like to understand what went wrong. This is what the forum is for - suggestions, constructive criticism. However, I myself have yet to come across someone beside you that has taken offence with the \"Roleplay Master\" title. If such others exist, then I welcome them to post here and make their presence known, as well as explain their feelings.

I propose that from this day forward, you be known as RPMs, or \"Spinners\" (of tales and quests...)

I do like the \"Spinner\" bit :) Perhaps it\'ll work as a nickname. But the \"RM\" stays, much like the \"GM.\"

I have always believed it would make me cranky to miss out on so much of the fun with other players, cease to live the story of Verrliit, and become one who has responsibilities, duties, and is expected either be dealing with the ignorant, disruptive and ill-behaved, or waiting alertly until the next one shows up..

Good that there is someone else to do that, then ;) Though many of us, me in particular, haven\'t given up our regular characters. I\'m very much attached to Karyuu, and besides - she has a responsibility to the Explorers Guild. We still have fun.

But thank you for your comments! :)

[Lanstri]

Guess I didn\'t have to wait long. -.-  

::QUOTE::
Chaos - Talking OOC in general chat is an offense punishable by muting.


  I\'ve never noticed a problem or anyone complaining about speaking OOCly in the general chat, so long as it was distinguished by () or [].  Sometimes it is much simpler to say things oocly in chat.  Especially when helping a new player.


  Ah well.. why do I even bother.

[Karyuu]

No no, OOC chat by itself isn\'t enough to warrant a mute! :) It just has to be designated as OOC, through parentheses or brackets. Explanations to new players would be quite hard otherwise. Cha0s, if you\'re muting players who specifically designate OOC chat as such, that\'s overstepping - and I hope that this is just another misunderstanding... This is not something I\'m bound to agree with.

[Verrliit]

Originally posted by Karyuu

Originally posted by Verrliit
    1. To be blunt, the rules page is worded in such a way, that when it was first posted, I and many others were ready to take you folks apart, or leave the game in disgust.

Very strong emotions. If this is true and has affected more than just a few other players, perhaps we need to \"redecorate\" the sticky.

Many approached me, to ask if your Improv Theater events meant the ending to players doing any RP at all.  What is needed is vastly more serious than simply redecorating.

Originally posted by Karyuu
You are free to post and discuss your deconstructions here, since I and no doubt many others would too like to understand what went wrong. This is what the forum is for - suggestions, constructive criticism.

I will take you at your word.  I will tell you what is wrong, in public, as you asked.  Just remember, I offered to do this in private, where it would not be embarrassing to you.

Originally posted by Karyuu
However, I myself have yet to come across someone beside you that has taken offence with the \"Roleplay Master\" title. If such others exist, then I welcome them to post here and make their presence known, as well as explain their feelings.

That will not happen.    Beyond Lanstri and I, no one who is not in your circle of friends has posted in this thread at all.  You have proclaimed yourselves to be Role-Play Masters.  Those tiny few who still bother to read the forums, and found this to be pretentious and offensive, or took the rule page as insulting micro-management, as well as those who no longer read the forums, gave up on talking to any of you, long ago.

And this is the big problem:

Originally posted by Cha0s
speaking out of character in public chat is not acceptable. If I see you while I\'m running an event nearby, or even just doing some NPC impersonating, you will be warned, and if you continue after repeated warnings, you will be muted. Things like \"progression points,\" \"47 slash weapons,\" and \"spawn-points\" do not exist in Planeshift from a character\'s perspective. If you use these terms in public chat after having been warned, you will get a mute.

None of you see anything wrong with this. [Edit- Spoke too soon.  Sorry, Karyuu.   ]



Let me try to rub your nose in it.

There is no conflict, no one is misbehaving, nobody asked Cha0s for help with a disruptive player, and yet here he is threatening people with muting, for something so trivial and common as OOC chat.

This is unacceptable behavior for a Moderator, for a GM or for anyone else for that matter.

\"But this is his job\", you say?

It is the furthest thing from it.

The primary purpose of all of you, who serve the players as GM and Moderator, is to help if we say we need you, and stay the heck out of our way, unless we ask.

If you do not do that, you are an enemy of play, and of the player.


\"But the rules are sacred, and all must obey.  And we serve the Devs, and not the players...\", you say?


Why do you think that so few players talk to you?

Why do you think that those in your circle of Moderators and their friends, are responsible for almost all of the posts?

Why do you think that not even a tiny fraction of the owners, of the 48,000 characters that were created since the wipe, have posted, and swamped the forums so badly that you need twenty more moderators just to read them all?


The players are the whole point, and the only point.

Everything that is built by the Devs, and everything you do in PS and in this forum is done to serve them.

And you are very badly missing that point.

You serve the players.

Say otherwise, behave otherwise, even while giving it lip service, and you will lose what little authority and respect you have left, in the community.



Again, I volunteer to help.  PM me.



Verrliit

[Lanstri]

*shrugs*  I\'m done trying.  I\'ll leave it to you three.  Least I\'m not the only one Verrliit, glad to see you agree with that at least Kayruu (it gives me hope), and shame on you Chaos.