PlaneShift
Announcements => PlaneShift News and Rules => Topic started by: Talad on April 09, 2015, 07:11:47 pm
-
(http://www.planeshift.it/element/%7B%22width%22%3A304%2C%22height%22%3A600%7D/Site images/News/unreal_kran.jpg)
We would like to present you a new project we are starting, which may change our future.
During the last 15 years we have gone through some amazing technology changes and we have increased the quality of our models, nearly doubled the complexity of our characters, added bump maps to all levels, added reflections, improved NPC dumbness...ehm, I meant intelligence, created new importers for latest 3D tools, refined the UI and more. That's because we love technology and we love to make PlaneShift look as good as we can.
Since the beginning, PlaneShift has had Crystal Space as its 3D engine and they have been a great partner to bring PlaneShift to life. But this year the PS team has been considering the possibility of an alternative. We reviewed all options such as Blender engine, Ogre, Unity, and Unreal.
Unreal Engine 4 (http://www.unrealengine.com/) (UE4) is our choice. Just take a look at this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFpdx1wDOoU).
Now, don't get TOO excited. Yliakum isn't suddenly going to look like THAT. Afterall, the engine and artwork are two different things, but it gives you an idea of what's possible. It gives you a glimpse of the robust tools we'll have to work with, especially in the areas of animation, particles and effects. The entire tool chain will be greatly improved and we can have the support of a very active community with a lot of documentation and tutorials at our disposal.
This has the potential to take us to the next level, where forests are huge and mysterious, foliage is lush, shadows are dynamic and realistic, your clothes move at the rhythm of the wind, spell effects are as elaborate as magic is, where your character can make facial expressions, monsters realistically drop to the ground, objects bounce as you kick them, you can slice consumers in two pieces and see the inside, and where water looks real and you also swim in it!
So as of today, the PlaneShift team is starting a fork of the current code and we will try to port everything we have to Unreal Engine 4. This will be a long transition and it will not be easy, but aren't we the project that created a (nearly) complete MMORPG from scratch? We feel we are up for this new challenge.
To achieve this ambitious goal, we need help from our great community! If you want participate, contact us on chat (http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=planeshift-prospects), and together, let's build the best open source and free MMORPG. The more people we have working on this, even little things, the more discoveries and progress we can make.
As first demo, we are looking to port:
- Our database plugin
- Adding a console to the server
- The character creation windows and logic
- The basics of the in game UI
- The particles we have for spells and level effects
- Player movement
As a second demo, we would like to port:
- Combat
- Magic
- Crafting
- The rest of the UI
If any of you can focus on one piece and provide us feedback on how it's proceeding, it will improve our efforts to evaluate better how complex it will be to do the full port. We already made some tests such as importing Hydlaa and getting a Kran to appear and wave. Let's see what else we can do!
-
/me stops singing and hops down from her cross at this thread.
This is awesome >o) I will gladly help out if I can. I am not sure if I understand the request for help - does it mean that we will just try out our characters in the new UR world, and let the dev team know how it goes?
Because if so, it sounds like something that any of us can do with a bit of time (i.e. it does not take any computer skills).
/me :love: :love: :love: Yliakum, especially if it gets so fancy. [Talad, when we do the port, can we forget to port the gender check for marriage??]
Cheers, really looking forward to this O--)
-
\\o// Awesome. Can't wait for the transition to occur. If I can help on this I will gladly do so. :)
-
It sounds like this is a great way to get the game moving forward. I've been following for years but only just really got into it, but this has got me excited about the future.
I hope though it doesn't change the current upcoming features. I'm looking forward to brewing, would understand though if that took a back seat now.
Good luck with everything!
-
[Talad, when we do the port, can we forget to port the gender check for marriage??]
Agreed.
Also, while it's been made clear we won't look like a triple-A game on ultra settings, I look forward to the upgrades in graphics hinted at here.
-
I hope though it doesn't change the current upcoming features. I'm looking forward to brewing, would understand though if that took a back seat now.
We can emphasize that this is a fork. So while this project will understandably be getting a lot of attention, we will not be dropping everything. All the existing projects will move forward. That includes the new crafting being finalized: brewing, jewelry making, and weapon enchanting, the Shindrok crater project, and even the work on the new crafting UI will continue as planned.
It's going to take a looong time to work everything out...it will likely be developed in bits and pieces. In between that, we'll still focus on everything else.
-
This sounds great, but I'm curious about a few things:
1. Does this mean there will be a slowdown in the development of the current game? (division of man hours)
2. How different do you think the hardware requirements might be for the unreal branch?
3. Do you think the unreal branch is likely to run on Linux? ( either native or via wine )
-
A major undertaking: thumbs up! ;)
-
First I thought "You are 9 days too late"; but now ... hmmm. So CrystalSpace is really finally dead?!
-
This sounds great, but I'm curious about a few things:
1. Does this mean there will be a slowdown in the development of the current game? (division of man hours)
2. How different do you think the hardware requirements might be for the unreal branch?
3. Do you think the unreal branch is likely to run on Linux? ( either native or via wine )
1. This is an appeal to ask people to help especially with code and graphics. With no new help it can be expected that new features that require code changes maybe slowed or delayed. However if we gain new artists we will be able to move quicker with graphics development. Settings and Rules development so new books, quests, crafts(brewing & jewelry making) and enhance combat will continue at current pace.
2. The hardware requirements will (and always have) depended on graphics and effects we use (mainly). We will continue to try and maintain a balance between better graphics and limit increase in hardware requirements.
3. Unreal engine 4 is compatible with Windows, MAC and Linux. So should be able to run on all.
-
Please do not do this. Planeshift is the best Open Source MMORPG out there. If you switch to the Unreal engine, the support for Linux would be more limited. Also, the Unreal engine guys do not like Open Source or GPL so much.
Of course it seems tempting to switch to a such robust and powerful engine, and it is very popular. You have my fullest understanding if you still want to change engine. I am sure there will be huge improvements. But Unreal is not open source so it kills a bit of the spirit in this game.
This make me a bit sad, but you do as you think is the best.
-
For someone who is not familiar with the old code and is interested in the development side of it, what is the best way to get started? ( aside from getting a good pair of hiking boots for the steep slope )
I tried building the client on Kubuntu several times but kept running into problems with getting Crystalspace set up.... ( for me, this was the point where I said screw it, it's not worth the bother )
@CheatCat - you have to pay a 5% royalty after making the first $3000... but if its non-profit, then do they expect payment?
-
Right... I guess it is the best way. I am not sad because you switch to Unreal Engine, just that the Open Source engines become more and more inferior. Just look at Crystal Spaces home page, it looks like now news since 2012. Also Planeshift uses tools that have barely have been developed since 2008, I mean it is probably great tools but technology moves on, to not talk about software development (Linux).
As much as I want to see a great community based game engine, the options out there cannot even dream to compete with Unreal. Sadly.
My problem is that Unreal engine is a huge binary blob.
A sidenote is that another project I was following used the Ogre3D engine, but that is also hugely unoptimized. They was planning to change to Open Scene Graph, but I do not think it is an option for Planeshift. Just to tell where the Open Source engines are going.
-
An interesting decision, considering the strong relationship between AB and CS. This will take a lot of time and work, but I can imagine it will be worth the effort.
-
@cheatcat
In my personal opinion this was not easy to do or choose which engine staying completely OS would have been nice, but open source engines just don't compete. ORGE 3D is a renderer more than an engine and blender which I fell was best of Open source still requires much development and would limit us, ie using old shader version 2/2.1 instead of current 4/5 also other issues like problems with dynamic shadows. Apart from being non open source Unreal ticks all the boxes and more. Although not open source It is free for us to use, would only pay 5% above earnings of $3000 (per quarter iirc). Also it's code is free to view and download. It also comes with a extensive toolkit and there are lots of freely available tutorials to help people learn to work with it.
[Note this is just my personal opinion].
-
Let me answer to some of the questions.
CrystalSpace: the engine is not dead, and we will continue to use it for the current version of PlaneShift. But we feel CS cannot provide us the next generation of features. One of the major points we struggle with is the tools pipeline (easily importing/manipulating art). I agree it's sad CrystalSpace cannot be better than Unreal, I felt it could with more people working on it, but it's not happening.
Open Source: Unreal provides all the sources, which is amazing for such an advanced engine. Even if it's open source itself, it allows other projects like us to still publish our code with an OSI approved license (example Apache or BSD), so to me the spirit of PlaneShift doesn't change. Our objective has been always to have an open development, allowing contributions and ensure we build the game with the community. This is even more true with Unreal.
Win/Mac/Linux: The support of different platforms is way greater in Unreal than CrystalSpace. It's true Linux is not their primary goal, but I feel this is an area were the community will contribute a lot, and I'm positive it will become solid enough.
Hardware requirements: Unreal capabilities to downscale graphics are good, in developing the art , we will be conscious of keeping it reasonable.
Where to start to help: The best way is to connect to the chat channel mentioned above and discuss with me or other devs, as we are building right now a more detailed plan. In any case downloading the engine and installing it on your machine is the first step. Then follow the tutorials based on your area, art or code. Download some examples (there are plenty) and see how those are built. Some are just made of "blueprints" which are a UI-driven way of programming, and so accessible also to the less techy people.
How long it will take: My current guess is about 2 years, but I think we can speed this up a lot with additional contributors. That's why we decided to uncover our plans and ask the community to join.
-
I added a new picture on main site and here for the article, which is actually a picture taken from unreal engine, where we loaded hydlaa and a kran waving. It's a screenshot inside the game editor, notice the real time shadows. Graphics will anyway look much better when launched in game and with proper lighting. At the moment is blurry, not sure why.
(http://www.planeshift.it/element/%5B%5D/Site%20images/News/unreal_kran.jpg)
-
Great news! \\o// Hope this transition won't take long and we will enjoy brand-new PlaneShift un-realistic look & feel pretty soon. A big loss for CrystalSpace, though...
-
Aside from graphics, which aspects of the game would be affected by Unreal engine transition?
-
This sounds like a good system to use for PS, however can you help me with a few things I do not understand:
1) What is the minimum requirements for each system to play using this new program (for windows, mac, Linux)?
2) Will we have the options to hide details like grass or shadows if we would like?
3) Will this program allow for quicker updates in the future?
4) Will this program allow us to choose a "gore level" so it will not be too bloody for younger players or people that just do not want to see that sort of thing?
That is about it for now.
-
4) Will this program allow us to choose a "gore level" so it will not be too bloody for younger players or people that just do not want to see that sort of thing?
If you have an issue with gore, then this is probably not the right game for you. As of now there are no gibs or decals from combat. I don't know if the developers are going to put those in the game. I hope they do at some point, but most games with that feature give you the option to control the number of decals so your computer isn't bogged down.
-
This is exactly the game for you if you don't like gore!! There are so many full professions that have nothing to do with combat, e.g. cooking, alchemy, mage (non-combat spells, tons of them), adventurer, crafter, miner, metal-worker, fisherperson, many more. Any creature parts you need you can get from other players and you can avoid the aggressive mobs we have.
And your RP won't have any gore. I suspect that this game, even on Unreal and fully fleshed out, is not going to be heavy on bloody things, it's just not the Yliakum vibe that I get.
Look at that happy waving double shadow kran :love: :love: :love: Not even a stubbed toe in that screeny, see?
EDIT: Of course, there are plenty of ways to be a bloody limb ripping warrior, hunter, outlaw, etc. if that's your role.
-
While I am happy to see a decision to move to a more advanced engine…
This is exactly the game for you if you don't like gore!! There are so many full professions that have nothing to do with combat, e.g. cooking, alchemy, mage (non-combat spells, tons of them), adventurer, crafter, miner, metal-worker, fisherperson, many more. Any creature parts you need you can get from other players and you can avoid the aggressive mobs we have.
And your RP won't have any gore. I suspect that this game, even on Unreal and fully fleshed out, is not going to be heavy on bloody things, it's just not the Yliakum vibe that I get.
For me this is a critical feature of the game. If it would force me to see gore in order to play it, I know I am out. I am not into seeing blood or splatter for my recreational gaming activity and sooo many other games fail to address this need of mine. I also do not want to see the inside of a consumer or anything like this.
My chars don´t kill anyway, but I also don´t want to see it if some other chars kills a mob nearby.
So my plea is to have any gore as an opt-in for those who want to see it.
I am also concerned about moving to engine that is not free as in freedom software.
Has openscenegraph¹, Torque3D² and GodotEngine³ been considered?
[1] https://openmw.org/2015/announcing-switch-openscenegraph/
http://www.openscenegraph.org/
https://github.com/openscenegraph/osg/blob/master/LICENSE.txt
(based on LGPL)
[2] https://www.garagegames.com/products/torque-3d/ (MIT Licensed)
[3] http://www.godotengine.org/ (MIT License)
Thanks,
-
(4) OGRE has been discussed earlier, too...
-
Open Scene Graph would require building a own game engine. As I understand this game is based a lot on Crystal Space that includes much more that graphics rendering.
This sounds like a good system to use for PS, however can you help me with a few things I do not understand:
1) What is the minimum requirements for each system to play using this new program (for windows, mac, Linux)?
2) Will we have the options to hide details like grass or shadows if we would like?
3) Will this program allow for quicker updates in the future?
4) Will this program allow us to choose a "gore level" so it will not be too bloody for younger players or people that just do not want to see that sort of thing?
That is about it for now.
1) https://www.unrealengine.com/faq If you computer barley can run Planeshift now, you might need a new or a upgrade.
3) This have little to do with upgrades. The devs might be able to work quicker perhaps. I found the UDK level editor simple and fast to work with, compared to blender for example.
This is however just as I think.
-
RR is a technoresister to some extent... ::|
yet
By the Gods I hope my basic Windows laptop will run this other kind of engine... for those of us without supercomputers and with little interest in building or modifying the client- will we still be able to download and run this new system by pressing the download button, waiting a bit, then logging in?
Twice in my 8 years ig I've had to buy different kinds of laptops without Intel just to try to run PS :(- resulting in months of not being able to get in game at all. X-/ :'( ???
I am sure you smart techie types have consider us non techie types? :woot:
Looking for reassurances, I am,
RR the techno avoiding elf
-
Hi, and thanks for all the feedbak, here are some answers to the questions above.
1) What is the minimum requirements for each system to play using this new program (for windows, mac, Linux)?
We expect to have all options needed to run also on lower systems. Unreal has options you can tweak to lower the resolution, shaders, etc... so I don't envision problems at the moment.
2) Will we have the options to hide details like grass or shadows if we would like?
Yes, we will take care of this aspect, also Unreal has good LOD (Level of Detail) management for all assets, and we can add some options for lower level graphics.
3) Will this program allow for quicker updates in the future?
Updates will still be based on the number of developers present in the team. What I'm expecting is to find more developers thanks to the updated tools we can use to add content to the game. Will surely help the speed of additions.
4) Will this program allow us to choose a "gore level" so it will not be too bloody for younger players or people that just do not want to see that sort of thing?
Not sure where this question comes from, there is no gore in PS and I expect to keep it similar in the new engine.
5) Has openscenegraph¹, Torque3D² and GodotEngine³ been considered?
We did a detailed analysis of different engines and Unreal has come out as the best one for our needs, also including the compatibility with an open source license. Changing the engine is a MAJOR effort, and requires a very robust and widespread engine, on which we can have support from their community. At the moment we are doing a proof of concept to see how complex this porting will be.
-
This sounds great, but I'm curious about a few things:
1. Does this mean there will be a slowdown in the development of the current game? (division of man hours)
2. How different do you think the hardware requirements might be for the unreal branch?
3. Do you think the unreal branch is likely to run on Linux? ( either native or via wine )
1.) Not a PS dev so that one I don't know about.
2.) For windows again I don't have a clue, but for linux you will need a 64 bit OS. UE4 can do opengl 3.2 and 4.2 level of graphics so if your system meets those requirements then you already have a good start, if not its time to come out of the early 2000's ;) On linux like any other game out there, you will have issues with amd cards, just let the people in #UE4Linux on freenode know and we can (try at best) help you through these issues, if not we can point you in the right direction to report the issue.
3.) You can compile and run the Editor in linux so you definitly run the games you make for linux on it, its more of choice and not technical issues that stop developers who are using UE4 to port their games to linux.
System requirements for the editor(not a game)
Desktop PC or Mac (or Linux, unofficial atm)
Windows 7 64-bit or Mac OS X 10.9.2 or later, (again Linux 64bit ubuntu based distor (centos7, opensuse 13.2, gentoo will also work fine but arch has some issues atm) , unofficial)
Quad-core Intel or AMD processor, 2.5 GHz or faster
NVIDIA GeForce 470 GTX or AMD Radeon 6870 HD series card or higher( an GTX 750 ti works fine, you will need to turn down some graphics stuff in the editor though)
8 GB RAM (on linux for development you probably want no less then 16 GB of ram, mainly because of shader compiliation)
UE4 will run on desktops and laptops below these recommendations, but performance may be limited.
https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Linux_Support
https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Linux_Demos (note these demos were cross compiled from windows to linux.)
There are a ton of settings that you can turn on or off in regards to level of graphics the game will use, all the PS devs need to do is to add the options to the menus ( hint hint hint), Seriouly UE4 can run on iOS and Android tablets(though I think they are arm Android tablets) so no one should really have any serious issues.
You have any questions feel free to post them on the forums.unrealengine.com or come to #UE4Linux or #unrealengine irc channels.
-
Please do not do this. Planeshift is the best Open Source MMORPG out there. If you switch to the Unreal engine, the support for Linux would be more limited. Also, the Unreal engine guys do not like Open Source or GPL so much.
Of course it seems tempting to switch to a such robust and powerful engine, and it is very popular. You have my fullest understanding if you still want to change engine. I am sure there will be huge improvements. But Unreal is not open source so it kills a bit of the spirit in this game.
This make me a bit sad, but you do as you think is the best.
1.) Epic fully supports games on linux, the editor on the other hand is still not officially supported yet, but runs none the less.
2.) There are tons of 'opensource' projects on github that use UE4, you can not opensource the engines code its self, but you can do what ever you want with your code. If there are changes you want to push upstream for the engine thats different matter. As long as the PS devs follow the EULA there should be no issues, and if they have any questions they can ask them on answers.unrealengine.com (just tag it with the appropriate tag)
3.) Because it does not follow a totalitarian ideology of opensoure dose not mean it will kill the spirit of opensource its self. UE4 is VOSS, virtual open source software, any one can get the source for any reason and only have to pay if they make a certain amount of money per quarter. If you have any legal questions please feel free to read the EULA its self and/or ask them on answers.unrealengine.com
-
Hi, and thanks for all the feedbak, here are some answers to the questions above.
[…]
4) Will this program allow us to choose a "gore level" so it will not be too bloody for younger players or people that just do not want to see that sort of thing?
Not sure where this question comes from, there is no gore in PS and I expect to keep it similar in the new engine.
Talad, just as an explaination here: I thought about this as I read "you can slice consumers in two pieces and see the inside" from the announcement, and cause I think lots of games made with Unreal have lots of gore. So I was afraid that as the Unreal may allow for it more easily it will be added without an option to opt out.
I am glad to hear that you have no plans of doing so.
I am glad that there are plans / ideas to switch to a different engine. I am still a bit concerned about that it is not free as in freedom.
And I think switching to another engine is sufficient and maybe not even necessary to attract new players.
But I like PS using a more advanced engine, even if that means a new laptop in some years, as I think Unreal engine could be too slow for Intel Sandybridge i5 at Full HD resolution.
-
Please do not do this. Planeshift is the best Open Source MMORPG out there. If you switch to the Unreal engine, the support for Linux would be more limited. Also, the Unreal engine guys do not like Open Source or GPL so much.
Of course it seems tempting to switch to a such robust and powerful engine, and it is very popular. You have my fullest understanding if you still want to change engine. I am sure there will be huge improvements. But Unreal is not open source so it kills a bit of the spirit in this game.
This make me a bit sad, but you do as you think is the best.
1.) Epic fully supports games on linux, the editor on the other hand is still not officially supported yet, but runs none the less.
2.) There are tons of 'opensource' projects on github that use UE4, you can not opensource the engines code its self, but you can do what ever you want with your code. If there are changes you want to push upstream for the engine thats different matter. As long as the PS devs follow the EULA there should be no issues, and if they have any questions they can ask them on answers.unrealengine.com (just tag it with the appropriate tag)
3.) Because it does not follow a totalitarian ideology of opensoure dose not mean it will kill the spirit of opensource its self. UE4 is VOSS, virtual open source software, any one can get the source for any reason and only have to pay if they make a certain amount of money per quarter. If you have any legal questions please feel free to read the EULA its self and/or ask them on answers.unrealengine.com
For me you sound a bit like someone from Unreal engine support department.
I share the concerns about Unreal not being free as in freedom:
- If you need to patch it, you need to follow their EULA.
- They could take it away from you anytime.
But Unreal also seems to be a very advanced engine.
-
Please do not do this. Planeshift is the best Open Source MMORPG out there. If you switch to the Unreal engine, the support for Linux would be more limited. Also, the Unreal engine guys do not like Open Source or GPL so much.
Of course it seems tempting to switch to a such robust and powerful engine, and it is very popular. You have my fullest understanding if you still want to change engine. I am sure there will be huge improvements. But Unreal is not open source so it kills a bit of the spirit in this game.
This make me a bit sad, but you do as you think is the best.
1.) Epic fully supports games on linux, the editor on the other hand is still not officially supported yet, but runs none the less.
2.) There are tons of 'opensource' projects on github that use UE4, you can not opensource the engines code its self, but you can do what ever you want with your code. If there are changes you want to push upstream for the engine thats different matter. As long as the PS devs follow the EULA there should be no issues, and if they have any questions they can ask them on answers.unrealengine.com (just tag it with the appropriate tag)
3.) Because it does not follow a totalitarian ideology of opensoure dose not mean it will kill the spirit of opensource its self. UE4 is VOSS, virtual open source software, any one can get the source for any reason and only have to pay if they make a certain amount of money per quarter. If you have any legal questions please feel free to read the EULA its self and/or ask them on answers.unrealengine.com
For me you sound a bit like someone from Unreal engine support department.
I share the concerns about Unreal not being free as in freedom:
- If you need to patch it, you need to follow their EULA.
- They could take it away from you anytime.
But Unreal also seems to be a very advanced engine.
And you think that can't happen with OpenSource projects?
-
Hey Salamanderrake, good to see you are answering some questions on unreal, we will surely need support pretty soon!
Helios about the open source I have the same feelings as you and it's still not a decision taken, but a proof of concept we are doing to validate the feasibility. I would love to have a fully open source engine, but seems these days it's not possible as there is no valid alternative. We could develop it ourselves continuing to expand Crystal Space, but bringing forward two projects can slow down our progress a lot. At the end we are making this project for the enjoyment of the players and we should keep this objective in mind when making any choice.
Keep the discussion going, ... and we need unreal developers! ;)
-
As long as the license does not inhibit you from using their code/products as required, the consequences of breaching the license agreement should not matter too much. You just don't breach it. The same goes for licensing agreements for commercial software.
Out of curiousity, is there a particular version of ms vc++ that needs to be used or will the one that ms is currently making available for free suitable?
-
Out of curiousity, is there a particular version of ms vc++ that needs to be used or will the one that ms is currently making available for free suitable?
Microsoft Visual studio 2013 community edition can be found here (https://www.visualstudio.com/products/visual-studio-community-vs). It is what is required for Unreal Engine and is free.
-
So I've been playing about with UE4's water support and set this up.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/hskguu.jpg)
I was running a local client in Hydlaa in Full-HD with water rendered in real time and I was maxing at 100fps, which I think is comparable to what I get in PS at 1280*960. The engine also feels much smoother while moving about. I was standing in the small map you get to beyond the lava cave and even in just that tiny room there was more input lag moving the mouse than I was getting in Hydlaa in UE4.
-
I'll ask again- will this new [what engine? something?] be usable by low grade USA Windows laptops? For people who don't and can't spend money on upgraded hardware and who don't understand nor care to learn all the tech?
RR
[mine is a Toshiba Satellite with AMD A6 but I am actually asking IN GENERAL in the hopes that my particulars and OTHERS can just download or whatever, and play]
-
This is a very, very good thing. But nobody is going to say what it can run on until something is available to run and someone has tried it. Unreal is the best choice. There have been many games using Unreal. Until there is a download available the best you might do is find other current games using the Unreal engine and see how the experience is on that computer. The stock graphic cards in portable computers can be problematic for running many games. But the Unreal engine will scale its output better. And many are familiar with it to some extent or another. Crystal Space has just never really taken off to receive the benefits of having an active, wide community of developers. Good show, best of luck!
-
Just curious - the specs for building state that the minimum card requirement is an NVIDIA GTX 470. That's an old card, but high end. I think the earliest models you can get now (new) are in the 700 series. Would a GTX 750 or 960 be sufficient?
-
So I've been playing about with UE4's water support and set this up.
http://i61.tinypic.com/hskguu.jpg (http://i61.tinypic.com/hskguu.jpg)
^ not available as deep-link image, because tinypic is ad-bloated.
-
I uploaded the same image to imgur, perhaps less ads there.
http://i.imgur.com/PANUHQS.png
-
I'll ask again- will this new [what engine? something?] be usable by low grade USA Windows laptops? For people who don't and can't spend money on upgraded hardware and who don't understand nor care to learn all the tech?
Long story short: we still don't know but I expect the requirements will be higher than now, even if we'll provide options to lower details, eliminate shadows etc. However the engine change project will require at least one or two years and in the meanwhile we'll be able to understand what the min requirements will be.
-
dang nabbit. now i'm going to have to redo all my postcard pics... again.
-
I would like to start this off by thanking our Dev's for looking into advancing this game into a better engine. This is a needed step so this community can advance and grow in the future. Also, thank you to all the people that are commenting, this helps everybody understand potential concerns and benefits of this new engine.
With that being said, let me see If I have this straight about unreal:
Advantages from what we have now:
1) Much better visual effects (backgrounds, characters, items, etc.)
2) Much better mechanical movements (smoother and looks more natural)
3) More potential Dev's available due to engine is easier to work with
In other words, this could be a much more appealing game, in the long run attracting more people to play. Also, with more people working on it, the number of man hours to work an update may be the same as now but the time can be shortened due to having more people working on an update.
Disadvantages from what we have now:
1) Computer requirements may be slightly more than it is now
In other words, the people that having been looking to play the game or comeback and play the game again but there computers will not play the game, still can not come back. The people that can barely play the game, will not be able to play the game now. Short run, we will reduce the amount of people that can play this game.
Unknowns:
1) A cost maybe associated with the new engine
Everything else, we should have roughly the same like; detail of landscape control and sound effects.
Is this right? Am I missing any significant advantages, disadvantages or unknowns?
-
...
Disadvantages from what we have now:
...
Unknowns:
1) A cost maybe associated with the new engine
...
Epic's UnrealEngine4 EULA (https://www.unrealengine.com/eula)
...
4. Royalty
You agree to pay Epic a royalty equal to 5% of all worldwide gross revenue actually attributable to each Product, regardless of whether that revenue is received by you or any other person or legal entity, as follows:
a. Gross revenue resulting from any and all sales of a Product to end users through any and all media, including but not limited to digital and retail;
b. Gross revenue resulting from any and all in-app purchases, downloadable content, microtransactions, subscriptions, sale, transfer, or exchange of content created by end users for use with a Product, or redemption of virtual currency, either within a Product or made externally but which directly affect the operation of the Product;
Gross revenue from any Kickstarter or other crowdfunding campaign which is directly associated with Product access or in-Product benefit (e.g., in a multi-tiered campaign, if an amount is established in an early tier solely for Product access, your royalty obligation will apply to that amount for each backer with the same access, but not on additional amounts in higher tiers based on ancillary benefits);
Your revenue from in-app advertising and affiliate programs;
Revenue from advance payments for a Product (from a publisher or otherwise); and
Revenue in any other form actually attributable to a Product (unless excluded below).
However, no royalty is owed on the following forms of revenue:
The first $3,000.00 in gross revenue for each Product per calendar quarter;
Consulting fees or work-for-hire fees which are non-recoupable for services performed using the Licensed Technology (e.g., an architect-created walkthrough simulation or a contractor-developed in-house training simulator);
Revenue from non-interactive linear media (e.g., broadcast or streamed video files, cartoons, or movies) which is Distributed in a form that does not contain or, in order to deliver, rely on servers running the Licensed Technology;
Revenue from a Product which is only Distributed to Engine Licensees (such as through the Marketplace);
Revenue from ancillary products which are not software and which do not contain embedded information (such as QR codes) which affects the operation of the Product (e.g., comic books, soundtracks, apparel);
Financial winnings generated by awards for the Product;
Revenue from donations for a Product which are not tied to Product access or in-Product benefits; and
Revenue from interactive amusement park rides or coin-operated arcade games which use the Licensed Technology.
The royalty is based on gross revenue from end users, regardless of whether you sell your Product to end users directly, self-publish via the App Store or any similar store, or work with a publisher. The following simplified example illustrates the application of the royalty to gross sales: if your Product earns $10 on the App Store, Apple may pay you $7 (having deducted 30% as a distribution fee), but your royalty to Epic would still be 5% of $10 (or $0.50).
Royalties that you pay on an advance payment of revenue for a Product that is recoupable by the payer, such as a publisher, may be credited against future royalty payments that you incur under this Agreement for that Product.
Within 45 days after the end of each calendar quarter in which a Product earns revenue outside of the above-listed royalty exclusions, you must pay to Epic the full amount of the royalty due for that quarter and send Epic a royalty report on a per Product basis. Detailed information on royalty reporting and payment can be found at unrealengine.com/release.
The royalty will be payable under this Agreement with respect to each Product for as long as any Engine Code or Assets (including as modified by you under the License) incorporated in or used to make the Product are protected under copyright or other applicable intellectual property law.
...
-
Please do not do this. Planeshift is the best Open Source MMORPG out there. If you switch to the Unreal engine, the support for Linux would be more limited. Also, the Unreal engine guys do not like Open Source or GPL so much.
Of course it seems tempting to switch to a such robust and powerful engine, and it is very popular. You have my fullest understanding if you still want to change engine. I am sure there will be huge improvements. But Unreal is not open source so it kills a bit of the spirit in this game.
This make me a bit sad, but you do as you think is the best.
1.) Epic fully supports games on linux, the editor on the other hand is still not officially supported yet, but runs none the less.
2.) There are tons of 'opensource' projects on github that use UE4, you can not opensource the engines code its self, but you can do what ever you want with your code. If there are changes you want to push upstream for the engine thats different matter. As long as the PS devs follow the EULA there should be no issues, and if they have any questions they can ask them on answers.unrealengine.com (just tag it with the appropriate tag)
3.) Because it does not follow a totalitarian ideology of opensoure dose not mean it will kill the spirit of opensource its self. UE4 is VOSS, virtual open source software, any one can get the source for any reason and only have to pay if they make a certain amount of money per quarter. If you have any legal questions please feel free to read the EULA its self and/or ask them on answers.unrealengine.com
I have to clarify something, though there are projects that use UE4 that are opensource don't use the GPL because of the restrictions in the UE4 EULA (https://www.unrealengine.com/eula)
Non-Compatible Licenses
You may not combine, Distribute, or otherwise use the Licensed Technology with any code or other content which is covered by a license that would directly or indirectly require that all or part of the Licensed Technology be governed under any terms other than those of this Agreement (“Non-Compatible License”). Code or content under the following licenses, for example, are prohibited: GNU General Public License (GPL), Lesser GPL (LGPL) (unless you are merely dynamically linking a shared library), or Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Code or content under the following licenses, for example, are allowed: BSD License, MIT License, Microsoft Public License, or Apache License. You may not sublicense Licensed Technology under a Non-Compatible License.
Here (https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/197236/copyright-involved-in-opensourcing-a-project.html) is a good example of some trying to opensource their game, but mostly for a game jam, but still. Sorry for any confusing on this I may have started. The best place to get answers to your questions has always been direct comunication with Epic or on their Answer Hub (https://answers.unrealengine.com/)
-
So that means Planeshift will drop it's GPL licence.
-
So that means Planeshift will drop it's GPL licence.
There are other open source licences compatible with UE4, like BSD, Apache, etc. we'll prolly have to switch to one of those.
-
Thank you Salamanderrake,
We are not going to make over 12,000 per year anytime soon, so Freebie!!!
-
hello
"and where water looks real and you also swim in it!"
as a dwarf ( i havent test it for year ) i already" can 'swim"
(whit /testanim swim 90 90 )
and the result is one of the thing i have liked in game
but yes go for it (and perhaps "real flying " can be allowed soon ? ::))
-
This is really exciting. I can't wait!
-
These license things give me always a big headache.
-
If you are going to switch engine, will there be a character wipe?
-
If you are going to switch engine, will there be a character wipe?
There is no current plan to do a wipe.
-
Character wipe? :-\
That sounds like it could be annoying...?
-
OMG a Character wipe is the most horrible thing a game can do. I went through a wipe on a server I had been playing for a year or so.
Not only are the newbie areas full all the time trying to level. It is an opportunity to build a class system (surfs and lords).
In the wipe i experienced, group leaders and special friends of the game, where given several levels head start, many unique items and significantly more money than the normal people. All under the disguise, that the game will need groups and leaders so all can prosper. Due to a friendship with a "friend of the game" i got to see one of there sessions to give leaders items. Those items where elite items not obtainable before the wipe.
Needless to say, I left the game soon after that.
-
We all are going to die.
:-\
Panic.
:whistling:
:sleeping:
-
PS lost a shit ton of players years ago over the mere threat of a wipe. The wipe never happened but players left because of uncertainty. Yes, we had a quest wipe, but that only meant that you could quest for the same items like glyphs a second time. Stats, inventories, money and skills were not touched. Max skills were raised, but that's it. I highly doubt we'll see a wipe.
Let's not muppet arm over this like a bunch of retards.
*makes retarded facial expression and flaps his hands*
-
Well, I doubt I'd leave over such a threat. Only I might, maybe, after the fact.
More likely I'd start over from scratch.
-
If you are going to switch engine, will there be a character wipe?
NO.
-
If you are going to switch engine, will there be a character wipe?
NO.
HA! This is why Eonwind is awesome. SHUT that &*$?% right down.
So! Unreal looks gorgeous, and will go faster the more of us contribute, so we should download the engine and start playing around as Talad said.
Onward :sorcerer:
-
I wasn't really that worried, just didn't really quite know what exactly it was. :whistling:
And yes, Eonwind is awesome! :thumbup:
Unreal PlaneShift looks really cool so far. I like that it might eventually allow my Nolthrir to swim, and my Klyros to fly... And breath underwater. Both of them. Because they can do that.
On the topic of breathing underwater, Kran don't 'breathe' in the sense we're used to. They just pull the oxygen from whatever's around them... Allowing them to breathe underwater.
Nolthrir have gills... So... The underwater breathing is obvious.
And as for Klyros... It just says they can breathe underwater. So, do hey have gills or what?
-
And as for Klyros... It just says they can breathe underwater. So, do hey have gills or what?
They do. On the Klyros species page (http://www.planeshift.it/Klyros) in the section on vlax it mentions that you could "pin" your opponent in water by covering his/her gill slits.
-
They do. On the Klyros species page (http://www.planeshift.it/Klyros) in the section on vlax it mentions that you could "pin" your opponent in water by covering his/her gill slits.
Thank you. :thumbup:
Forgot about that. ;D
-
If you are going to switch engine, will there be a character wipe?
NO.
Sorry, was just asking... I have no understanding how hard or simple it is to move the planeshift databases over to whatever format Unreal Engine use.
-
Valid question in my opinion, CheatCat. The response was great, especially because I was worried about exactly what Rigwyn said, an exodus.
That was a very satisfying "NO" let's put it that way. Cheers. O--)
P.S. Download the engine and git to work everyone :detective:
EDIT: [Do you realize how difficult it is not to post a couple one liners in this thread, i.e. "Will the new engine wipe my hard drive?" "So I guess the new engine will invalidate my driver's license?" but I will refrain from wringing my hands, gnashing my teeth and tearing my hair in the forums (I'm afraid of the repercussions ;D)].
-
I totally agree a resounding "NO" to a wipe from an official is AWESOME. Simple easy no room for question.
-
Hi guys
I just went to download the unreal engine it says windows or mac.
I heard it's ok on linux.
<--- linux user
Regards Pete
-
Hi guys
I just went to download the unreal engine it says windows or mac.
I heard it's ok on linux.
<--- linux user
Regards Pete
it's supported for linux, but I think the tools have to be compiled.
-
*Miadon remembers the last full wipe*
(No one left then as it was just an accepted fact that there would be wipes. Been so long ago now that I think people forgot about it. Also so few people play now compared to back then. That unless the data is really corrupt it really doesn't matter too much about a couple of bugged level gains here and there.)
Anyway interesting to hear of this future game engine change. Do wonder about Hydlaa Maps.. will they be merged into one region. Will People be able to see the Winch from the tower?
-
Hi guys
I just went to download the unreal engine it says windows or mac.
I heard it's ok on linux.
<--- linux user
Regards Pete
First, the editor is not fully supported on linux, but we can 'build the game' for linux very easily so it shouldn't be a problem for our linux gamers.
*Miadon remembers the last full wipe*
(No one left then as it was just an accepted fact that there would be wipes. Been so long ago now that I think people forgot about it. Also so few people play now compared to back then. That unless the data is really corrupt it really doesn't matter too much about a couple of bugged level gains here and there.)
Anyway interesting to hear of this future game engine change. Do wonder about Hydlaa Maps.. will they be merged into one region. Will People be able to see the Winch from the tower?
Second, right now we are planning to export PS exactly like it is atm. So this would mean individual maps with join regions. Having PS more like an 'open world' would be more possible with UE4. But its not currently something we have planned.
-
with respect to land I only ask for 2 things
1) a way around Hydlaa so you can go by land from oja to gug without going through town.
2) a Dermorian home town
-
The main Dermorian settlement is Quintherion, and that's listed as level 1 so when it gets added it'll probably be a bit bigger thana town. It says that's in the Great Forest, thought, and I thought that was level 2.
-
It's been a long long time.. correct me if I am wrong but Ojaveda isn't even in the correct location. It's just in a "temporary spot".
I know map creation/alteration is out of the scope of porting to the new engine.. but I would love the sewers to be redone.. so that they actually make sense. They don't follow to any relation to Hydlaa above. They were made before the Library zone or Bronze Doors were made.. so the sewers don't actually go underneath those parts of Hydlaa. Would be quite a cool way to break into the bronze doors region.. some pick locked gates in the sewers. :P
-
I know map creation/alteration is out of the scope of porting to the new engine.. but I would love the sewers to be redone.. so that they actually make sense. They don't follow to any relation to Hydlaa above. They were made before the Library zone or Bronze Doors were made.. so the sewers don't actually go underneath those parts of Hydlaa. Would be quite a cool way to break into the bronze doors region.. some pick locked gates in the sewers. :P
There is a way to do it now :P
-
Hi guys
I just went to download the unreal engine it says windows or mac.
I heard it's ok on linux.
<--- linux user
Regards Pete
Here (https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Linux_Support) is the main Linux hub on their wiki.
Here (https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Building_On_Linux) is the wiki page on building the editor for Linux, please read.
There is a #UE4Linux channel on freenode that you can stop by if you have any questions. As for the Linux client of the game they can cross-compile (kinda like Unity3D's export option) a Linux client, or they can build it natively on Linux.
-
grazie Salamanderrake, even though I'm osx I looked through the linux instructions, it's awesome to have someone who knows UE4 point us in the right direction.
Would be quite a cool way to break into the bronze doors region.. some pick locked gates in the sewers. :P
There is a way to do it now :P
WHAT. Eonwind, hints please.
-
Again, being not very interested in learning to make the tech part of PS function myself, I wonder:
Why please do all the examples you have posted, Venalan and Talad, look so out of focus? The game on my computer as it is now is much sharper and cleaner and easier to see details. Am I going to have to learn some other tricks or options or go through the p-i-t-a of finding different drivers AGAIN just to be able to see the details?
Why are the videos and screenshots so fuzzy?
RR
-
I can't speak for Ven, but it may just be that the images are very compressed or the graphics settings kept low to reduce lag on their ends.
A quick Google shows me that some of the games I've played smoothly on a mediocre desktop use the Unreal engine, so hopefully playing with the graphics up to a bearable level would be easier going than what we currently have.
-
Sounds cool. I might get back into PS if you move to Unreal engine :)
-
Why are the videos and screenshots so fuzzy?
The videos are very low resolution. They look better once downloaded and played without being enlarged in Dropbox.
There is no low quality setting in existence which will make your game look blurry, Roled. :P
edit: All of this UE4 news is making me want to learn C++ again. >.<
-
Volki is right, the resolution is low to keep the files manageable. Viewing them in drop box is not ideal. I would also suggest downloading them and view them from your computer and not on the website. They should look MUCH better. I just massively reduce the video to share it.
When I record the video I'm using full HD with all effects on, I've not had a problem with lag playing the game not even when I try.
-
Why not upload the videos to youtube, it costs nothing so there is no real loss other then time uploading them.
-
Pardon me waking this old topic with no important info, but the blurriness of the screenshots is probably due in part to Unreal's anti-aliasing.
-
Congratulations for choosing a new challenging path Talad, this will definitely enhance one of the best role playing experiences to date!
I have to admit it's probably one of the most exciting news this year. Good luck! :)
-
@Roled...silly elf...go back to your market! You've got a year or two worth of lead before there's a playable game on the UE4 engine. This port will take a while. Deal with hardware requirements then ;)
@All...as Talad alluded to, switching to unreal opens the door to thousands of game devs through their massive community. Same is true for other popular Indie engines. CS never had that. Try to separate in your heads the OS aspect of the engine, which is just a tool, and the OS aspect of PS's code that is the underlying game logic that drives the game play. PS team uses spreadsheets, but that doesn't mean Excel must be FOS. Is Maya or 3DS Max FOS? No, but they've been used to make a lot of the art. There's no promise in PS or any FOS project to never touch a non-FOS tool in content creation. Get over it, please?
-
There's no promise in PS or any FOS project to never touch a non-FOS tool in content creation. Get over it, please?
I know I should drop it right here but I could not just let it go.
I do not talk about what tools the developers use, proprietary or open source. The problem is that UE in not just a tool, it is an engine. It would be the core of this game. This forces every user who want to play this game to use (more) proprietary software.
Maybe I was the first one who started this discussion, but things moved on from there. I can accept the fact PlaneShift will use UE, but it does not mean I would like it. I think it is always good to reflect your options before jumping on the mainstream train. Is an engine that does not respect freedom really worth it? Perhaps, for the sake of the community.
-
I do not talk about what tools the developers use, proprietary or open source. The problem is that UE in not just a tool, it is an engine. It would be the core of this game. This forces every user who want to play this game to use (more) proprietary software.
You do understand that a player doesn't need to install the UE4 development software to just play the game, right? There will still be distributed executable downloads for all platforms and that's all that's needed...nothing external required like a flash player or some such. Building a client from PS's source would still require the UE4 software, true, but users aren't forced down that path to play.
Maybe I was the first one who started this discussion, but things moved on from there. I can accept the fact PlaneShift will use UE, but it does not mean I would like it. I think it is always good to reflect your options before jumping on the mainstream train. Is an engine that does not respect freedom really worth it? Perhaps, for the sake of the community.
I'm not sure what you mean by "does not respect freedom" since the source is available on GitHub (https://www.unrealengine.com/ue4-on-github) and reconstructing PS with UE4 won't cost the PS team a dime (at least not to Epic). Turns out that making and continuing to improve and innovate on a rendering engine and set of tools of this quality takes tremendous time, talent, and treasure. Epic invested millions in their people to do that, so there has to be a return somewhere. It would seem Crystal Space's current state after so many years makes it rather evident that a comparable product doesn't happen with casual volunteer effort. For someone to repackage UE4 under another name and sell it with no compensation due back to Epic would be financially devastating to Epic and all the people who depend on those jobs to feed, house, and clothe their families. Absent legal protections, the source would never come out, and absent the investment, Indie engines like UE4 don't exist.
-
I'm not sure what you mean by "does not respect freedom" since the source is available on GitHub (https://www.unrealengine.com/ue4-on-github) and reconstructing PS with UE4 won't cost the PS team a dime (at least not to Epic).
There seems to be a misunderstanding here, FREE software does not mean that the source is available, or the program is gratis (free as in beer), but that it is free as in freedom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software). Software is free if it has the 4 freedoms:- You can run it any way you want
- You can study the sourcecode
- You can redistribute it
- You can redistribute modified copies
You can't run UE4 to make (1) for any gambling-related activities or Products (as defined by law in the jurisdiction of use); (2) for operation of nuclear facilities, aircraft navigation, aircraft communication systems or air traffic control machines, or for military use in connection with live combat; (3) in violation of any applicable law or regulation; (4) in which the Licensed Technology is rented or leased; (5) that misappropriates any of Epic’s other products or services; (6) in support of a claim by you or any third party that the Licensed Technology infringes a patent. However unlikeli it is that you want to run you nuclear submarine based casinos whit UE4, not allowing it makes it nonfree (regardles of how sensible these regulations might seem). There are other parts of the EULA that make it nonfree but I have'nt read it trough.
There will still be distributed executable downloads for all platforms and that's all that's needed...
People who are concious of their usage of nonfree software would (imo) never ever favour a binary to something with nonfree but available source.
For someone to repackage UE4 under another name and sell it with no compensation due back to Epic would be financially devastating to Epic and all the people who depend on those jobs to feed, house, and clothe their families. Absent legal protections, the source would never come out, and absent the investment, Indie engines like UE4 don't exist.
When a program is free it does not mean that it has no legal protection, ther exist many free licences such as the GPL's wich grant different kinds of protections for the developer. Wheter it is possible to make money working on free software have been discussed countless times, free software is not just for bearded hippies and there are people feeding families by working on free software.
I'm not happy that PS is moving to a propriatery engine, but having never touched crystal space or the PS codebase, I think it is a choice the developers have to make, whatever they cohoose I hope it makes their job easier, more enjoyable, and in the end makes PS better.
-
There seems to be a misunderstanding here, FREE software does not mean that the source is available, or the program is gratis (free as in beer), but that it is free as in freedom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software). Software is free if it has the 4 freedoms:- You can run it any way you want
- You can study the sourcecode
- You can redistribute it
- You can redistribute modified copies
Then I don't think PS is now or was ever "free as in freedom". I doubt Talad or AB would ever permit resale for profit, and to the best of my recollection, only the distributed binaries are allowed to connect to the PS game servers by policy, breaking your first rule. Other than a short-ish span of time years ago when the Linux binaries were bugged during which players were allowed to use built-from-source clients, I think that's been true since they started rolling out binaries. Of all the people to ever come in contact with PS, only a tiny fraction have contributed a thing to PS or CS, so for them, this was always free beer.
-
What can or can not connect to the server is not an issue, you can run the server on your nuclear submarine, and that is what counts. And no PS as a whole is not free the ABC is far from free, and what makes PS a real enjoyable game is the content under ABC. You are not allowed to sell the stuff under ABC, but if you made up new stuff to replace it whit gpl stuff or whatever, you can charge for it. (on selling free/libre code (https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html))
-
I'm curious about why the restrictions in Epic's license matter to those who object - specifically why, that is. If it's because you want to clone the game and sell it for a profit, then I think they have every right to protect their investment. They are sharing it with conditions. Just because its not technically freeware as Stallman might define it, it doesn't mean it's a bad thing.
If you are concerned that reading the source code might make you vulnerable to being sued in the event that you made a similar game and then Epic came after you with a claim that you used their copyrighted code without compensating them, then yeah, that might be good reason to not work on the project at all. If you are just playing the game, then what does it matter to you? Is the objection more about issues with reuse or with not being able to review the code and compile from source?
-
Reuse is just one part of the EULA wich makes it nonfree I don't object to it any more than to any other part of it. For me it is personal preference, I would like as much of the software I use to be free as possible. If in the future UE decides that they are evil and they could change the EULA so it is no longer compatible with PS, and there could be many more hypothetical scenarios.
I'm not opposed to the change, I started writing here to clear some stuff about free software. It has a definition, some stuff fits it, some doesn't. So despite UE having many good qualities it is not free software, and as such it does not respect freedom. For people who care deeply about free software it is propably a problem. For less concious people it will be like the shame after eating a whole cake.
-
Keep in mind that PlaneShift may be a true pioneer of open source gaming history, but licenses have always been seperate for engine (client and server code, GPL) and for game content (art assets, lore, rules etc., ABL). If there's a move to an open source engine of commercial origin, I don't think it changes much about the free software spirit of the way the game is developed.
Ah, I realize this is addressed just 3 posts earlier ;D
-
For people who care deeply about free software it is propably a problem.
People who deeply care about free software would have never supported PlaneShift in the first place, at least as soon as they figured out that the claim "PlaneShift is an open source project" only applies to its source code, does not imply that any part of the project is free as in freedom, and really exists more because of some guy's idea that if you're going to make it open source, you'll be more likely to find people that will code for you for free.
-
People who deeply care about free software would have never supported PlaneShift in the first place, at least as soon as they figured out that the claim "PlaneShift is an open source project" only applies to its source code, does not imply that any part of the project is free as in freedom, and really exists more because of some guy's idea that if you're going to make it open source, you'll be more likely to find people that will code for you for free.
I care deeply about open source and I supported PlaneShift.
I always saw the art asset/code divide like the OGL d20 system vs D&D proper. That seemed like a good idea becasue it advanced everyone's technology and still let Planeshift maintain its identity. I don't agree with the idea that just because Unreal allows source access for its commercial engine that it is an acceptable alternative, however. The improvements that may come out of Planeshift after a transition to UE4 would be useless to any other open source project. It requires a buy in to a rather clearly proprietary system. It is a lot more akin to D&D 4e's GSL where the improvements are useless outside of that ecosystem.
To me, switching to use a proprietary engine will cease what made PlaneShift so special. Epic and others are on the verge of exploiting open source development by hacking copyright, which is interesting in and of itself (I mean, that's what copyleft is too), but in the end such work is being done at the expense of creating an ecosystem of tools that would allow for truely unhindered creativity. I think projects like Planeshift as it exists now are essential to the future of the video games medium so that we can remove any possible legal pressure on creativity. The terms of the UE4 licence could change at any time and the projects that can assist in ensuring that there are well developed alternitives I really feel should do so.
I don't disagree that finding an alternitive engine is a prudent course of action, but as others have mentioned there are many to choose from that do not carry with them the legal and cultural ramifications of UE4. I'd personally put my had in the Gedot engine rink as it seems the most likely to provide a user friendly GDK.
In any case, I'd urge the development team to not give into the temptation of a shinnier gratis engine over a solid libre one.
-
People who deeply care about free software would have never supported PlaneShift in the first place, at least as soon as they figured out that the claim "PlaneShift is an open source project" only applies to its source code, does not imply that any part of the project is free as in freedom, and really exists more because of some guy's idea that if you're going to make it open source, you'll be more likely to find people that will code for you for free.
I care deeply about open source and I supported PlaneShift.
I always saw the art asset/code divide like the OGL d20 system vs D&D proper. That seemed like a good idea becasue it advanced everyone's technology and still let Planeshift maintain its identity. I don't agree with the idea that just because Unreal allows source access for its commercial engine that it is an acceptable alternative, however. The improvements that may come out of Planeshift after a transition to UE4 would be useless to any other open source project. It requires a buy in to a rather clearly proprietary system. It is a lot more akin to D&D 4e's GSL where the improvements are useless outside of that ecosystem.
To me, switching to use a proprietary engine will cease what made PlaneShift so special. Epic and others are on the verge of exploiting open source development by hacking copyright, which is interesting in and of itself (I mean, that's what copyleft is too), but in the end such work is being done at the expense of creating an ecosystem of tools that would allow for truely unhindered creativity. I think projects like Planeshift as it exists now are essential to the future of the video games medium so that we can remove any possible legal pressure on creativity. The terms of the UE4 licence could change at any time and the projects that can assist in ensuring that there are well developed alternitives I really feel should do so.
I don't disagree that finding an alternitive engine is a prudent course of action, but as others have mentioned there are many to choose from that do not carry with them the legal and cultural ramifications of UE4. I'd personally put my had in the Gedot engine rink as it seems the most likely to provide a user friendly GDK.
In any case, I'd urge the development team to not give into the temptation of a shinnier gratis engine over a solid libre one.
The thing is the Unreal Engine IS solid. Gedot looks more like a "game maker" than an engine (UE also have a game maker like interface). I do not think Gedot have features like UE to create big forests and big worlds with many objects. Maybe 2017 Gedot have improve so much it could be a considerable alternative if the project lives so long that is. Such projects tend to be optimistic sadly and might end up to something none will work with. Then Torque3D is better option but again we do not know if all developers will lost their interest tomorrow.
This is basically why active minimal libraries should be used when making a game such as Open Scene Graph because then it is easy to switch the library if Open Scene Graph decide to give up. Heck, you could even make your own library. It will take time yes, but the whole game does not need to be make for scratch. Of course the whole game needed to be rebuild and all systems; graphics, physics, networking, UI, sound... need to be decoupled. So the UI could work alone for example. This is very difficult.
Simple games use game engines but more advanced games should make their own engine. This is because well, a already made engine can never cover up all different game types and at some point you want custom stuff that no engine can offer.
-
Is this project dead?
-
No I do not think so. What however I know is that very few persons works with this. I think help is needed from programmer dudes and people who knows something about UE.
-
It isn't dead, but since Eredin left the Dev team the only person working on the code side of the UE4 move is Talad.
-
the only person working on the code side of the UE4 move is Talad
I would not wish that on anyone.
-
Hello
Talad i think about you
http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/sculp/mythology/gr/atlas/atl001.jpg (http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/sculp/mythology/gr/atlas/atl001.jpg)
-
I wish I could help out in the ways that were listed, however I don't have such capabilities under my belt. Hang in there Talad and team, I'm rooting for you all to pull this off. Make PlaneShift Unreal :flowers:
-
I didn't follow this for a long time. How is the progress of UE port? Is there any playable client or it's still very far from ready?
-
Hello
Talad i think about you
http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/sculp/mythology/gr/atlas/atl001.jpg (http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/sculp/mythology/gr/atlas/atl001.jpg)
(http://ancientrome.ru/art/artwork/sculp/mythology/gr/atlas/atl001.jpg)
Hmmm... Hulla, I'm not sure how to read into that. ::|
-
Hello
when if i understand nobody in the past have take the time for making a better crystalspace engine rewriting
ALL the code of planeshift alone is a work for hercule an epic quest
-
Who said Talad will rewrite everything alone? Is there no supporting development team?
-
It isn't dead, but since Eredin left the Dev team the only person working on the code side of the UE4 move is Talad.