Fishing wish list

[Mordaan]

At the last Meet the Devs event, it was brought up that several areas are in great need of balancing.  So in a series of wish list forum threads, we'll provide the devs with a thread just on that area, laying out some ideas of what needs to be done.  Bottom line is, as with all these job skills, we should get things to the point where you can make just as good a living as you currently can with mining/metal working/crafting.

In the case of fishing, right now it is mainly at the beginning stages.  Many fish are worth the "default" amount of tria and some fish are extremely difficult to get.  So for all those interested, we can organize some ideas, make a list of things that need to be done, and lay the groundwork to develop and balance the fishing feature as much as we can.  We're players not devs, but certainly if we can organize these ideas in a single thread, we can make it a bit easier for whoever implements this to do so.  If it gets involved enough and makes sense to do so, perhaps we can even get the skunkworks project involved, or even get more people to join that in the process.

SPOILERS:
I'm not sure we can really do this properly without having spoilers all over the place (in this case, a current list of fish, their prices, etc.)  Since fishing is so early in it's development, it's not exactly ruining the game to have a list of existing fish.  :-)  But that's just my opinion, so I leave it to the mods to have the final word.

THINGS TO DO:
I'll use the second post in this thread to keep a summary of things discussed.
Off the top of my head I can think of:
- Coming up with a proposed list of prices for raw fish
- Coming up with a proposed success rate of catches
- Coming up with a wish list of other kinds of fish, where they might be found, descriptions, etc.
- A wish list of other fishing tools (i.e. small fish net, large casting net, maybe different kinds of fishing poles) and what skill levels should be required to use those.

Also, cooking/baking needs to be brought into this.  Just like miners can sell their ores to skilled metalworkers who can then improve quality of ingots/stock and sell that for profit or to crafters to make their wares, the same relationship needs to exist between fishing and cooking/baking.  More recipes for fish dishes can be added using existing fish and new ones that are proposed.  So cooking/baking can be further developed in parallel with fishing. (There will be a separate thread for cooking/baking).

Remember, things discussed here might not be implemented "as-is" but we can at least give the devs some ideas on how to proceed so they don't waste time starting from scratch.

So…discuss/deliberate/brainstorm. 

[Mordaan]

This post can be used to summarize all the ideas in the thread:

Ideas for further development
Bait and lures (can effect catch rates of different fish)
Smaller fish can be used as bait (minnows, sardines)
Also, worms? There is already a quest which establishes the existence of worms which invades Amakeer's space.
Different fishing tools for different kinds of fish
Relative position in body of water should effect catch rates (near shore, deeper areas, etc.)
Shellfish
Pull alchemy into play with poisons or oils from fish used for potions (once alchemy is implemented)
Pull magic into play with perhaps a fish catching/attracting spell. (Skilled mages can make the fish come to them.   )


List of fish, prices (current and proposed), catch rates (proposed):
...


List of fishing tools:
Fishing Pole (already in).
Small Fishing Net (low to medium skill level)
Large Casting Net (catch many fish-higher skill level)
Traps

[Aramara Meibi]

you touched on it and I want to second the point.

when cooking is further developed, and more recipes call for different fish, the value of the fish will increase, especially if the value of the dishes are increased. The same is true with alchemy. Potion recipes can call for some of the more rare fish, and if I'm not mistaken, a couple of fish already have alchemical uses in their description.

as with the implementation of various fishing equipment, nets, spears, etc. I'd like to see certain types of fish only catchable by certain types of equipment. For example, it isn't logical to be able to catch a crayfish (if crayfish are supposed to be anything like crawfish in RL) with a fishing pole. Nets or traps would be necessary. Also, in addition to poles, I'd like to see the implementation of bait and lures, each specific to catch certain types of fish.

In terms of types of fish I'd like to see added, umm, perhaps more shellfish? crabs, mussels, oysters, scallops, SHRIMP, lobster. Perhaps when the bottom levels are introduced, we can add bigger game to the fare, tuna, bass, sharks!, marlin etc. In line with the bait and lures idea, have some fish such as minnows, sardines, which could be used as bait fish to catch the bigger fish. Because, you know, big fish eat the little ones.

[Mordaan]

Great suggestions, Aramara!   
I hadn't even thought of different equipment for different fish.  Fishing traps is a good idea too.  As is shellfish.

But now we are getting into limitations of current areas.  Certainly as more areas are added, more options will be available.  With the current bodies of water available, how many fish can there really be (both in number and variety)?  Though unrealistic, perhaps for now (this is still beta afterall), we can cram lots of different fish in the small lakes we have and spread them out later as more areas become available.  But yes, the really big fish might have to wait for the lower levels.  Maybe in 50 years?   

But I will add some of these ideas to the summary post.   

[Earowo]

I hate to be the one to say this, but you CAN catch crayfish with a fishing pole, I went out on a stream a couple times, and they seem to like clamping onto slugs. I caught 8-9 both times.
Which makes me think of other fishing trips...You more likely to catch a perch or bullhead from the shore, but a trout or flatfish in the deeper areas..
Which leads me to believe, position in the water, should effect the fish you can catch.
also slugs or somthing like them should be usable bait >.>

[Zalya]

I'm happy somethings being done about this! Anyways, I agree that Alchemy will bring a huge increase to fishing. First things first though, I belive the skills should be balenced with eachother. Right now I need to catch over 100 fish to get 16-17. That's a lot of fish with little value. Lower level skills should level a lot faster, and higher level skills should level slower.  Since the maximum skill is now 200 I believe, 16 to 17 should be a low skill. It should be a lot harder to catch fish, and take only a dozen fish to level up.

[Catlemur]

http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/smf/index.php?topic=39713.0
My two cents.

[Aramara Meibi]

zalya, your issue persists across all trainable skills. what it boils down to is the fact that more advanced actions result in the same training value as less advanced actions. the same reason why casting an ingot (an easier task) nets the same training advancement as casting a stock (a more difficult task). the higher your fishing level, the more likely you should be to catch a rare fish, but at the same time, you should gain more experience for catching a rare fish over a common one.

this issue has been brought up in the meet the dev meetings and is on the bug tracker.

[Mordaan]

Yes, this is the BT report I think you are referring to.
http://www.hydlaaplaza.com/flyspray/index.php?do=details&task_id=5170

Gilrond has been trying to get dev feedback about that one for awhile.   
Some very good ideas in that thread.  But yes, that applies to ALL skills.

[Gilrond]

Yes, some real progress on that bug can seriously improve PS.