Author Topic: My idea about PKing  (Read 1266 times)

Lode

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My idea about PKing
« on: May 11, 2002, 03:03:17 pm »
I know that there will be no PKing in PlaneShift, but I\'d like to post my idea anyway :)

If I would make a MMORPG (which I can\'t), I would have added PKing to it.  The rule is simple: you can PK everywhere, except in guarded cities and on guarded roads, if you try to PK there, guards that are much stronger than you will attack you.

If you are very strong and kill a newbie, you\'ll LOSE experience instead of gain it (to avoid people PKing for fun).  If you kill someone a little less strong than you, or stronger, you gain experience.

You should be able to attack someone in group, for example 5 n00bs together could kill one strong guy.

If you lost enough health in a battle, and then succesfully escape or run away, you can\'t be attacked again by anyone for 5 mins.

And, some people can carry a \"non PK\" certificate that will expire at a certain date.  For example the king can give such a cert to someone who has to do an important quest and the king doesn\'t want PKers to interrupt.

And there should be holy places, where nobody can fight, not even against monsters.  These are places like churches, temples and the \"holy n00b city\".

stoiss

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« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2002, 04:23:28 pm »
I made a similar suggestion in this thread
how about a anti pking sever and pking sever???
about adopting the suppression/political zones idea form Anarchy Online.
I think there should be places where people could fight each other far away from any newbie grounds. Also people who do not like PvP should be able to rise to high-levels without being preyed upon by dedicated player-killers (yes, that kind of people exists  :( ).
Anyway I think we need do discuss this all the way through, preferable with the developers actively participating.

ParaSite

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« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2002, 06:24:02 am »
Why can\'t u guys just accept that some people don\'t want to be PKed? Not in towns, not in the willderniss, nowhere. Adding PK would make a lot of people leave because it\'s very annoying to get killed by a high level noob. Everyone would go running around and PKing (as with RuneScape). It\'s verry irritating if you don\'t like PK.
<Worf> These are the moments when my ego gets put back on the ground. I use linux for quite some time, and am soon 2 years maintainer of a linux distribution. I started to think I would be good at it. But then I tried to get planeshift running.

White Dust

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« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2002, 06:55:38 am »
Quote
Originally posted by ParaSite
Why can\'t u guys just accept that some people don\'t want to be PKed? Not in towns, not in the willderniss, nowhere. Adding PK would make a lot of people leave because it\'s very annoying to get killed by a high level noob. Everyone would go running around and PKing (as with RuneScape). It\'s verry irritating if you don\'t like PK.


I must agree with this, I have played Myth of Soma and there where many high lvl persons how where just killing nwbs for fun, even if there would be an exp decrese it would not stop the pk\'ing becouse with a little npc killing the exp wil be normal again....

Izzy*dot

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« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2002, 09:13:50 am »
I... HATE... PK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!
Every MMORPG i get in, i get pk\'d.
My only and best advice: Hunt them down and slay them off.
(but hey, since there will probably not be ne PK\'ing in Planeshift, this was not needed at all :D)

Ride the Maelström!!

Killz4Thrillz

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« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2002, 12:12:02 pm »
The only kind of PK there should be is in an areana, I Dont want to be walking between towns just to get stabbed killed just so someone can feel more good about themselfs.
Lasarath

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« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2002, 04:38:58 pm »
Maybe it\'s a good idea to make quests whintin supervision of cityguards or watchers or something.
This way you can lvl up whithout being Pkinged.
When you are strong enough you can go into the real winderness with the elite players  :D  

Killz4Thrillz

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« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2002, 04:23:09 am »
Quote
Maybe it\'s a good idea to make quests whintin supervision of cityguards or watchers or something.
This way you can lvl up whithout being Pkinged.
When you are strong enough you can go into the real winderness with the elite players


But you will always get them even more \"Elite\" Players with higher lvls and better armor sitting outside the world entrance killing people just to get there kicks and brag about killing off people that are not even close to there lvl.
Lasarath

paxx

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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2002, 07:18:32 am »
This is another great topic. I am beginning to love this forum just for the intellectual practice (how?s that for newbie suck up??)  

Anyway. PKing is great when the game is built for it, to date I have not seen a single really good implementation of it but the Race Wars servers in Everquest and Dark age of Camelot come real close.

To have a good PvP environment, there can be no loss to dieing except the hassle and faction must be enforced, if guilds are implemented in a PvP environment, you get a guild faction hit when you kill a member of guild X so after a while a certain guild wanting you dead. Also there must be a method available to all newbie and veterans to travel from city to city safely. And if you PK citizens of X city you become a target of the guards there when you try and come to the city.

Basically some penalty for killing random PCs must exist and the reward should be limited, when you kill a person less then half your level then you take a big faction hit with your city or many cities?

Another idea is that if the game is made so that the most powerful PC with the best equipment can be overpowered by 100 just entered characters or recently entered characters, then a posse can go out hunting for the PKer but for what is adds and what it takes away PKing isn?t worth it. But I love Race Wars, and I would love a Guild war server.

You have Guilds.
 Guilds have 4 standings with other guilds, allied, indifferent, allied with enemy, and enemy.

You can PK any enemy or enemy ally, you gain guild points for doing so, the guild uses guild points to pay for houses, and other expenses. You can not be an enemy of a guild in your base city, and if you are allied with a guild that is the enemy of a guild in your base city you can not fight them.

The only thing is that the thief and assassin types will show as neutral unless seen by a equal or higher level thief type and or they have killed a member of your guild in the last 5 minutes. I think some type of limit must be set on your ability to attack enemies of X levels or skill points lower then you, say one third. That way as a higher level guy I can?t attack you until you attack me but if you do I suffer no penalty for killing you.    

I think that would be fun, and if I wanted no part of PKing I don?t join a guild or I join a guild with no enemies and no allies and that is their shtick.

Just my thoughts
Paxx
-Paxx

mistwalker

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« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2002, 05:04:05 am »
I think more people will leave if you do NOT have pk. In reality, you can kill people. Not being able to kill people takes away about 90% of the realism the game has.

\"This game is so cool! You can craft boots, you have to tan leather, and you can mine the materials to make chain mail, and sew it into the boots. It\'s so immersive!\"
\"Can you kill people?\"
\"No...\"
\"You mean, we can mine and smith and tan leather and do quests and a whole lot of other amazing things, but magically my sword will not collide with someone elses flesh when I swing it?
\"Thats about right\"
\"That\'s almost as stupid as zelda, when you need a special glove to lift a damn pot. And I\'m sure there\'s a great reason built into the game for not being able to do it, right?\"
\"I believe the FAQ said \"some people don\'t like it.\"
\"Well, some people don\'t like godamm Roleplaying games either, but we don\'t add a shotgun and a missile launcher as weapons for them, do we? And just what the hell\'s the point in having it massively multiplayer if you can\'t even kill other people? It might as well be single player.\"
\"Well, ther\'s cooperation...\"
\"Look, if you can\'t kill people, the only thing thats gonna be going on is people killing things to level, and bitching at other players for stealing kills.\"
\"...\"

Not having pking is a stupid idea.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2002, 05:08:50 am by mistwalker »
A fool and his head are soon parted.

Killz4Thrillz

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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2002, 02:35:37 am »
If PK is added there should be an easy Flee Option (If you are the victum)

Also somethings that could be added
If you PK Someone you have to hide the evidence or if a guard or someone on patroll, There will be a bounty for this PKer. that way depended on how much the player Kills the more Reward from the game you will get for finding and hunting this player. and ofcourse if there is a bounty on someones head you can PK Them and not be punished. Once the player finds a way to clear his name or dies he will no longer have a bounty on his head. [ This could be done by paying off someone twice the amount your bounty is worth ]

This would not only help prevent Obsessive PK but it would add sort of side Quest trying to find these players.
Lasarath

paxx

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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2002, 04:59:10 am »
Killz4thriz:
Your thought has merit though I wouldn?t go with the flee option, but here is how I would handle it.

You murder a PC the local justice puts a bounty on your head. No evidence no nothing (through scrying they know who you are)

The bounty system works like this.
 Equal combat level or there about, 5 gold (or whatever)
Weaker then you, 10 gold
Half  your strength, 20 gold
? your strength, 40 gold
slightly stronger then you, 2 gold
twice your strength, 1 gold

After 2 murders you get the title murderer to the front of your name when in the area controlled by the local justice and their allies. For every time somebody kills you as a bounty while you have the murderer title 2 gold is taken from your bounty (the bounty hunter gets 10% of the bounty gold unless they are weaker then you where he gets 20% per person (I an calculating group power not individual power)

In locations not allied you do not have the murderer title and if someone kills you for the bounty they are considered murderers in that location and the allied areas.

You lose the bounty on your head when your bounty reaches 0 or you pay twice the bounty, but the money paid goes to the people you killed (with a little message of why they got it)

What this would do is create a game within a game, PKers would be both PKers and PK killers in most cases. The reason for not giving the full bounty out at once is, If I make a PKer and I kill a ton of newbie?s then I hide out in some corner of the lands and log off, later I get on my second computer with my ?Paladin Type? and head out to the location where my PKer will Spawn, I log him in on my first computer and kill my PKer with no attack coming from the PKer. My paladin just made big bucks that he will share with the now non-murdering PKer.
That is an extreme example but in general it is too easily exploitable without spreading it out, and I would have it where you can only take in one bounty of one person at a time (meaning I can only take one of your heads I can?t have 8 of them at a time, but I can have many different peoples heads)

Over all this would give the PKers some fun but they would end up fighting themselves only 90% of the time and trying to raise their bounties as much as possible. But it would not be a good environment for them, it would be a game within a game.

I can imagine PKers banding together to raid villages?this in my twisted reality would be fun if 2 things are put in place, if a PC stronger then me kills me and I don?t have a bounty anywhere, I don?t suffer major penalties from death. No Pking in very newbie areas, like around a starter village or something, and you lose no items from death.

What PKers can do is trade in heads with certain out of the way traders (demons or something) and based on the heads level you can get gems for money or magic with other far out of the way merchants (devils or something)

This I could deal with and I think may add to the game instead of subtract as PKing usually does.      
-Paxx

David_HD

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My thoughts...
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2002, 03:42:03 am »
I really like the idea of loss of experience for anyone who\'s a (noticably) lower level... It punishes people who prey on the weak, but at the same time, if some little bastard is being annoying enough to be worth the EXP hit... This means you still have to avoid pissing off people who are vastly more powerfull than you, even though they\'d rather not waste their time with you. It allows for inter-player conflict, but doesn\'t reward it too much... The scale should be roughly (what it is for monsters) / (some constant) - (some other constant)....  It\'ll always be a better application of resources to kill a monster of a given CR than to take on a player, and \"dedicated\" PKs won\'t be getting experience as fast as people who go slay some monsters, which means others can kick their ass for it if they\'re picking on people. Also, guards should definately step in where it makes gameworld sense for them to. It\'d be rediculous for them not to. However, that\'d only be if they see it or hear it or hear about it. They shouldn\'t be omniscient (I guess scrying is an option... but do PCs have any way of viewing what happened in a specific location at a specific time in the past?), nor omnipresent. It should also, in certain instances, take the guards a while to get there... Oh, and the idea of an Arena is a good one... Normal exp values would apply there... Oh, and maybe you could get the normal exp value if there\'s a bounty on someone\'s head... (Bounties would additionally discourage PKing... and those with a taste for it can have fun killing the bounty hunters coming after them :P) Oh, and if a group teams up on a more powerfull character, it should IDEALLY calculate exp based on the overall strength of the group, not of the characters individually... They should all get exp, and should all be taken into account in determining how much there is.

A side bonus: This method would alow for magistrates... possibly a detective skill or something that helps you figure out whodunnit... Then you could place bounties, if you\'re in the right social position... The idea of dispersing bounties gradually is a good one, too.


I think the key point is that it is a roleplaying game. Having characters PK when their characters actually would shouldn\'t be a problem. The problem is when people don\'t get into their character and just kill other players randomly, or with too little provocation. The problem is that they are not in character, or if they are, society has come up with ways to deal with those kinds of people that work very nicely... The key element is to focus on allowing society to take it\'s course. The occasional psychopath or whatever probably should exist. The thing is that pretty soon someone will come along with a bigger gun and better aim, and put a stop to them. What we need to do is to make sure that those who follow the rules can more easily improve their characters, such that there are always strong people available to deal with those who can\'t see their way clear to actually playing fair. I think that the reduced EXP system does this nicely, if scaled properly. It ensures that, if two people have been playing the game the same amount of time, the player who has been following the rules will be far more powerful. The problem should deal with itself. I think ultimately most PKers of the variety that detract from the game are more interested in power (and exercising said power) than anything else, so making it a quicker climb to observe proper etiquette will quickly convert them into constructive members of society. The few that don\'t can make interesting sidequests, but shouldn\'t be a major problem.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2002, 04:08:30 am by David_HD »

David_HD

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« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2002, 04:57:19 am »
Also, if you include the idea from the \"Hardcore Roleplaying\" thread about not necissarily being able to judge how powerful another person is, (except by reputation and such, unless you have a skill, etc... ) then mindlessly PKing should really go away, because unless you\'ve been paying attention to what people have been saying or you\'ve burned skill points in something that doesn\'t help all that much if you just want to kill things, you don\'t know whether that player will stomp you into the ground or if you\'ll lose experience for killing him.