A Hated System - a good idea.

[Abemore]

damn, I thought I\'d considered everything, but I stupidly did not consider people creating 20 or more free acounts in order to abuse the system... unless accounts could somehow be limited, and i doubt they could be, this whole thread has been a waste of time... bah, ah well

thanx for posting everyone except link

[kinshadow]

Originally posted by Abemore
... but I stupidly did not consider people creating 20 or more free acounts in order to abuse the system...

Hmmmm......there may be a way around that.  If a person actually goes out and makes 20 accounts, it is doubtfull that they will actually play with more that 2 or 3 of those.  Thus, the number or effectiveness of your hate points could be tied to the character\'s developement (age, total skill points, etc.)  I know it was said earlier that veterans should not be given special treatment in this system, so the points could reach their max number/effectiveness after a reasonable level/time.

Also, as mentioned earlier, banning is not the only recourse.  Restrictions to areas, higher prices, etc. give enough of a deterent to push out the less hard-core griefers.  This could possibly optimizes the GM\'s time to \"banning\" (in whatever form) the ones that are the true problem.

[paxx]

Originally posted by Link
FMiddy, I know what I am talking about, the developers have told me that this will be a REALISTIC fantasy game. But I think they are smoking crack because there is a VERY big line between Fantasy and Reality, or maybe it was a thin line, I don\'t know.

The post about thanking everyone except link caused me to seek out his comment :-)

Note:* there are people who would disagree with me on this, and I am not in charge of anything so take this all as opinion.

Link, while we want to make the world as realistic as possible?the realization is that is a misnomer, mainly due to different uses of the English language.

This game will be as realistic as possible with realism being paper and pencil RPG realism as the gauge, and I don?t mean any particular game system, just it will try and have a gritty edge to it, but in no way will this be a simulation, with one hit kills and such being the norm.

This will always be a ?game? first and ?realistic? second, I say this based on the direction and wishes of many people of the development group.

What I think was meant by realistic could also have been immersive, minimal suspension of reality, and the such.

 Also as development goes on certain factors are considered in much more depth then they where at the conception of the idea.

Vision, is defiantly not lacking on the dev team, but vision is often stymied by reality :-)  

[Clover]

To Control the grief and hate points given out, why not have an elected group of people who get notified when a grief point is given.  One or a few people from that group may go to where the dispuit is (or teleport the people in the dispuit to them), then that individual may meet with the people who were disputing and settle the matter.  If they feel the offence is worthy of a restriction/ban then they can take the appropriate action.  The elected group of people could be somewhat like system moderators, or police, to control the Game and not let it get out of hand.  

Also, limit the number of grief points given out to 1 (per person in a time limit), and have them only be avalible in populated areas where there might be younger ones around, outside of cities i believe that you should be on your own though. IMO.

EDIT: If there is a constant dispuit i believe both parties should be given a strick warning/ban something because they would not be rping (for fun atleast)

Clover  :]  

[Link]

I was joking about my last comment (If you couldn\'t tell). Hitman, I have had my dot com for like half a year now.

[Aruneko]

Originally posted by Clover
To Control the grief and hate points given out, why not have an elected group of people who get notified when a grief point is given.  One or a few people from that group may go to where the dispuit

That just makes more hard work for people like GMs for a nearly useless system.  I really think that we should drop this idea.  If exploitation is at all possible (as I said before) its not worth it.  Tell me when you have a reaaaallly good idea.

Perhaps (as Paxx mentioned) this could be a GM / Dev only feature, so that if the GMs get pissed off at a character, they make his prices be more expensive permanently.  I\'m not saying people should go tell the GMs when someone\'s being an ass and get them punished, the actual players wouldn\'t be able to do anything.  This is a good alternative to punishment such as jail time and XP loss.

Lets say you curse off at a GM, he sets it so that your prices cost 5% more than everyone elses, permanently, or until you do something really nice or apologize or something.

[Clover]

That just makes more hard work for people like GMs for a nearly useless system. I really think that we should drop this idea. If exploitation is at all possible (as I said before) its not worth it. Tell me when you have a reaaaallly good idea.

Who are the GM\'s going to be???

Are they the devs, cause i got the impression that the devs were going to make people GM\'s but thats the devs would not be the gm\'s ?(

[cmhitman]

i think the pr dept will become the gms later

[Abemore]

you\'re right kinshadow, this can still work...

It is now clear to me that this system is merely a reputation simulation, and as with any reputation players should also have the possibility of earning a good positive reputation as well.  \"Hate\" Points would be the equivilent of a negetive reputation.

Here\'s how i see the reputation system working...

• Players start out with neutral reputation
• Reputation can change automatically.  Positively by completing good aligned quests, or negetively by killing shopkeepers, townsfolk, etc.

In this way, it is possible for a player to choose how they would like to play the game from the beginning.

• A negetive reputation still slowly decays and is subject to all the terms previously discussed with \"hate\" points.
• It is possible to gain positive reputation points only after your negetive reputation points have decayed naturaly on their own.  This means, only a player with a neutral reputation is elegable for positive reputation points.
• Positive reputation points cannot be awarded by other players as it may be used too often.
• If a player already has a positive reputation, negetive points will reduce the players positive reputation.
• Positive reputations do not decay.  They can only be counteracted by negetive points.

discuss...

[Aruneko]

Nice idea, but there can be a difference between \"well liked\" and \"good.\"  Perhaps some snotty noble knight goes on a good aligned quest, how should that make him more liked?  And if society is evil, then it may make him less liked.  Less liked equals higher prices.

[kinshadow]

Originally posted by Abemore
It is now clear to me that this system is merely a reputation simulation, and as with any reputation players should also have the possibility of earning a good positive reputation as well.  \"Hate\" Points would be the equivilent of a negetive reputation.

Originally posted by Aruneko
Nice idea, but there can be a difference between \"well liked\" and \"good.\"  Perhaps some snotty noble knight goes on a good aligned quest, how should that make him more liked?  And if society is evil, then it may make him less liked.  Less liked equals higher prices.

I think you have a good start on a system there, but it may need a little tweaking.  I think that NPC and PC reputation tallies should be kept seperate.  As Aruneko said, the interpretations of your actions may depend on your society.  Thus, by completing quests and doing certain actions, then your aura/karma/good/evil/whatever is shifted more so in an appropriate direction based or your race/alignment/etc.  Likewise, your \'fame\' is based of people\'s like/dislike of you.  Togther the two numbers could determine your \'reputation\' in a specific area.

Perhaps another way to decrease the possibilty of exploitation is if someone shows too many people dislike (through hate points, lists, or whatever) they start to be disliked too (for being too judgmental).  Thus, if they move below the neutral line (or antigrief contributing threshhold), they can no longer effect anyone\'s reputation.

[david]

I add one to the hate meter for link.  he is such a grammer geek.

[Aruneko]

Give it up, david.  Link is always like that.  We all agree with him, he just expresses his opinions stronger than other people.

Just because he was the first person to insult you, it doesn\'t mean you need to make all your posts I-hate-Link posts.

On the internet, calling someone a geek is a compliment.  Remember that.

[Link]

He reminds me of DingoBoy or whatever he name was, and no, your posts don\'t bother me. They are just lame.

[Grey]

This may be going away from the topic of people not liking david a bit, but would it make sense to have a diffused fame system?  Think about this: Fame would come from doing quests.  The bigger the quest the more fame received in your current \'zone,\' but a small amount of fame would seep into areas outside the zone.  Fame, in this case would be a measure of the intensity of feelings towards you and the people\'s knowledge of you, whether that makes you a hero or a villain.  Other things could factor into this fame amount, like if you are caught sneaking around an aristocrat\'s mansion, or caught with a prostitute (okay, that wasn\'t necessary   ).  With this system, then, if you stayed in the same area to do everything, you may become well-known in that area, but your fame would be muted as you move away from that area.  Also, a decay counter would be added to the system, and you would fade into the woodwork after a time... whether in the game or in real life (or RL for those that don\'t understand english when reading on a computer).  This system doesn\'t really address the faction concerns, but those have already been well fleshed out by other mmorpgs.