PlaneShift
Development => Unreal Engine => Topic started by: Rocfeather on May 20, 2015, 01:58:29 pm
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Has there been any work yet committed to SVN yet for the transition? Or how do you imagine that work going? Going to try to encapsulate/isolate the Crystal Space stuff? Or will it be more of a ground up approach since I'd imagine the two engines would be fairly different in nature and not just something you can drop in and replace?
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We have a separate (currently non-public) SVN with all the work which has been done on editing PS code to work with UE4. Talad is working on producing all the base functionalities necessary for PS to work, with help from a few people who are interested in helping getting the code ported to UE4. Last I heard he was working towards setting up stable client<->server communication which is a basic block of PS.
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Ah ok. There is a fair bit of Crystal Space stuff that is not necessarily engine related as well. Stuff like the smart pointers and some of the collections stuff would have to be cleaned up as well.
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People interested in contributing to port PS over UE con join #planeshift-prospects where you can join the effort and eventually get access to the not-yet-public SVN.
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I think the Unreal Engine 4 port should be on a public SVN. Why? Because then everyone who wish to contribute to the UE4 port can do that, and everyone who want to play around with it can do that too in order to get interested. There could be some issues with this like things does not work and the project feels "broken" in general. I however would like something to work on and test without having to reinvent the wheel again.
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I think the Unreal Engine 4 port should be on a public SVN. Why? Because then everyone who wish to contribute to the UE4 port can do that, and everyone who want to play around with it can do that too in order to get interested. There could be some issues with this like things does not work and the project feels "broken" in general. I however would like something to work on and test without having to reinvent the wheel again.
Vote for it - be more open, PS!
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I think the Unreal Engine 4 port should be on a public SVN. Why? Because then everyone who wish to contribute to the UE4 port can do that, and everyone who want to play around with it can do that too in order to get interested. There could be some issues with this like things does not work and the project feels "broken" in general. I however would like something to work on and test without having to reinvent the wheel again.
Vote for it - be more open, PS!
^^^^^
This
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A private branch? ::| Are you kidding?
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Yes, a private branch, very observant.
As for the why, simple, it doesn't work, you can't use it to connect to the Laanx server, and most likely, you won't even be able to compile it. Now no matter how many times you write that in big letters next to the link to a public repository, people are still going to go there and try to compile it, and then come back disappointed or asking half a dozen questions that have no answers yet. So the choice was made to make it a private repository until it at least is a decent working demo.
Also notice however, that private does not mean you cannot get access to it. It is not public, but if you want to work on the code, you can contact Talad, and he can give you access to it.
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Also notice however, that private does not mean you cannot get access to it. It is not public, but if you want to work on the code, you can contact Talad, and he can give you access to it.
And what if I simply want to read the git history and check by myself how the porting is going instead of wasting developers's time in the forums?
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That is unfortunately not possible, one of the downsides of the chosen solution I suppose. Though in all honesty, I don't believe much could be learned from those logs without also knowing the roadmaps/etc. But either way, unfortunately, no. :)
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Though in all honesty, I don't believe much could be learned from those logs without also knowing the roadmaps/etc.
In fact roadmaps/etc should be public too.
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Does anyone now how to make a box blocking property and make it form onto the static mesh, like the SPHAT on DM anchorhead?
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http://forums.sandcrawler.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=h5bimqctlrev010mm9dp89mff5&topic=1239.msg6242#msg6242
Now, if you will, please stick to the topic on hand :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic: :offtopic:
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Year 17.
People still believe that PlaneShift is open source.
There is a difference between publishing your source code and making a stand for FOSS software. PlaneShift is, and always has been, proprietary. Access to the source code is only granted for the sole purpose of tricking developers into working for the project for free. Stop expecting this project to have an open source vibe to it. I know that they're saying it's open source, and pretend like this entails all the things you would expect from an open source project. And I don't even want to say they're consciously lying. Maybe they truly believe that. But if they do, they have no idea what FOSS software is all about. They don't fully understand the difference between "free as in beer" and "free as in freedom," and they never will. So stop expecting them to act like PlaneShift was Free (as in freedom) and Open Source, because it's not. It's a proprietary, freeware game, that allows access to its source code. No more, no less.
Edit: Yes, I realize I suffer the RAS syndrome. Sue me.
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People still believe that PlaneShift is open source.
[...]
They don't fully understand the difference between "free as in beer" and "free as in freedom," and they never will.
Unfortunately your post does not help understand the difference (if there is one) since you make only statements, without backing them up with any facts.
Mind you, I am not saying you are right or wrong, just because I know that I do not know enough about this. But your post is not really helping understand what this is all about.
Greetings,
Gonger
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Gonger I suggest to ignore the previous post whose only purpose is to try to re-kindle futile polemic ;). Like you said it's not really backed up by facts and I think it also lacks a minimal understanding on how the videogame world works and it's :offtopic:.
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@gonger, you are right. Of course, this is only my conclusion, and it's up to anyone to reach their own conclusions, but with a lack of information, I admit this is not too easy.
So let me explain a few points.
License taint
It is true that the source code is freely available. It is true that in the Free Software movement, source code is freely available. However, everything else in the PlaneShift project is protected by proprietary licenses. I am not saying that this is a bad thing or that PS authors are criminals for that, but this means that PlaneShift is not "free as in freedom." And that it means that it can't be put up to the same standards as other software that calls itself open source, because they usually imply the Free Software aspect of it.
To get a better idea of what I'm talking about, I recommend checking out the Free Software Foundation (https://www.fsf.org/), especially the part about licensing. Again, my point is not that PS devs are evil, just that this is not, and never was, the spirit that the open source movement is following.
Cover company
In the FOSS community, everything is about not-for-profit organizations. There is no "working for" the organization, no sense of "employment" or "becoming a dev," everyone who wants to help just does that. While PS doesn't pay the team, the structure seems - for an outside viewer - closer to a traditional company than the openness of FOSS kinda organizations / foundations. You have to get in the team to be able to do anything. Their game content is secret and protected. They do not tolerate forks, and only even allow them because it's kind of impossible not to, with the source code being freely available. How is this not the very definition of "proprietary?"
And again, I am not saying that this means they are evil, only that you can't hold them to the same standards as "true" FOSS projects. For reference, check out the Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software) for the definition of proprietary. Keep in mind that a), Wikipedia is heavily biased towards the FOSS movement and doesn't hesitate to make the word "proprietary" sound like the most evil thing ever, and b) this obviously mostly implies to server-side, non-"free" (again, "as in freedom," that means: not freely available, rather than "as in beer," which means available at no cost) part of PS.
Anti-competitive behavior
This one you should take with a grain of salt. I have seen evidence of this, but since I'm not producing it here, take it as a personal opinion. The PS team does not want other projects to use their source code. It is disallowed to talk about certain things in this forum (so I hope this post won't get deleted), but suffice to say that the team, or rather the team lead, is of the opinion that people who want to work with the PS source code should work on PS. And I can completely understand that, there's nothing wrong with that. But doing that while also claiming you are an open source project just doesn't seem to make sense, in my mind.
And of course I respect people sacrificing their spare time to make a completely free-as-in-beer game. You just can't compare that to a FOSS project, and that is what people are doing in this thread, and have done so many times before. That's why people get angry and frustrated, because they believe the project to be something it is not, because that was falsely communicated.
@Eonwind: I hope at least the last paragraph showed a bit why I think that this is precisely on topic. People hold PS up to the wrong standards, because they see "open source" and compare it with free-and-open-source software and wonder why nothing matches. I think that this confusion wouldn't arise if the game was marketed as a freeware game that allows access to its source code, and allows avid community members to join the dev team and help build it. And I don't think you're doing yourself a favor by posting ad-hominem attacks against someone who is trying to clear up a confusion, even if my initial post lacked actual information and I see how it could be understood as mean-spirited. I apologize if that's what happened.
And about having no idea about how the videogame world works, well I know that there is one large commercial company called Valve, who allows other people far more access to their IP than PS does, and even offers a platform that allows others to sell games they made that not only take inspiration from Valve's IP, but actually use it and develop it. Imagine someone trying to make a PS fan game called Yliakum Stories: Boeden, you would just laugh at them if they'd ask you whether they can use some of your protected secret art for it. Late alone charge for it! But again. That is okay, that is your decision. Just don't pretend like you're the holy grail of freedom, just because people are allowed to look at your source code and maybe even submit a patch that will be ignored forever.
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Despite you try to justify it's not off-topic it still is.
I will only reply because there are some falsehood, some incorrectness and some presumptions that needs to be rectified:
1. Company:
In the FOSS community, everything is about not-for-profit organizations. There is no "working for" the organization, no sense of "employment" or "becoming a dev," everyone who wants to help just does that. While PS doesn't pay the team, the structure seems - for an outside viewer - closer to a traditional company than the openness of FOSS kinda organizations / foundations...
Your view of how companies working on or with OS software seems largely utopic and far from truth. One example for all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hat) has contributed to the OSS and there would probably be no OSS as we know today without them. Same can be said for many other companies... and they are structured like standards companies. Also speaking about committing patches try to get your own linux patch in the main branch...
Going back to PS it's important to highlight some facts:
- the team is made of volunteer, they are not paid nor they get money for the time spent maintaining and improving the game. This include devs, GMs and the Project Leader;
- the team accept contribution by anyone, they simply can join IRC #planeshift-prospects and speak with us to see how to contribute;
- patches from outside the team are often included in the game (see many in the bug tracker and many from PSExtended project), still remember that inclusion requires by the dev a specific pipeline: decide if the patch is worth for inclusion in case it's a new feature (many are), merge the patch and test accurately to avoid breaking other aspects of the game (this is no trivial task sometiems). Last but more important: remember devs are volunteer, they will work on it if and when they have time (so it should not be surprising patch inclusion takes time);
- while we appreciate all the help we can get not everyone is born to be game developer. Being a game developer requires a certain set of skills (depending on the area they work on) including the ability to work effectively in a team. Remeber (and that's true for every project in the world nowaday): a team working well together is hundred time better than a skilled solo. We, the department leaders, have the freedom to choose and propose people for inclusion in the dev team.
- even if people are not interested in joining the dev team but they just want to contribute a small piece to the game that is doable: many payers got their piece of art, book or the quest they designed included in the main game. Sure this requires cooperation with the dev team but the number of contents that reached the game that way shows it's not only possible but it's reality. Of course people pretending to include their own piece of content, quest or lore despite it doesn't fit PS lore or standards will not see their things included.
- freedom: I know the freedom "as in freedom" and the "freedom as in beer" topic all so well and I don't want to enter this discussion at all, I will just offer my POV on freedom since it seems to be all about this ... there is one aspect completely downlooked: PS will not try to get its players to spend RL money in any way. Now try everyone else [MMORPG] game out there, almost all of them even the ones claiming to be OSS from the one claiming freedom "as in free beer" will try to drain some amount of money from their users. Ways are different and ranging from speeding up your char advancement from trying to sell you cool things in game. Is it bad? Not at all, MMORPG (including PS) requires resources and making a living from it is not a crime. But PlaneShift is different.
- now, thinking about the previous point, I respect Valve's work and politic, but claiming it's more freedom than PS does... ;D
- at last, it's true we don't want a fork of PS (and for good reason too long to explain here) but you're not allowed to speak for us: if someone is willing to create a PS fan game called Yliakum Stories: Boeden (even using our art assest) is welcome to join IRC and come to speak with us. Since I am in the team I witnessed we always positively welcomed the use of PS art for fan projects.
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People interested in contributing to port PS over UE con join #planeshift-prospects where you can join the effort and eventually get access to the not-yet-public SVN.
Does this still stand?
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Yes it does, work is proceeding, even if slow. You can get access to the SVN contact me on IRC.
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Soo... Are there any progress? Screenshots? Any news? We must keep this forum alive to catch interests of people!
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Hi,
Over the last few months there has been progress, but it's very slow and inconsistent. Most recently Talad was working on code to 'set up' all of our characters to work within a UE4 client. I've not seen anything like screen shots for it though.
All of the videos and screen shots I posted earlier in the year were me importing and setting up Hydlaa 3d art, but this flow of images stopped as no new assets (other bits of hydlaa and other cities) were made available to use to load into the UE4 map editor, where the new world should be created.
Since then Eonwind and I who were looking at helping on the UE4 project are concentrating on adding content to the current game which will also be made part of any UE4 game.
Venalan.
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Was there any issues importing the current assets into UE4? For example all the cites in their current condition? Sounds to me they have to be remade?