Bad guys, good RP(!/?) [OOC]

[Sirial]

Hello All,
some time ago on the gossip channel started a debate about the RPing of the so called bad guys (i.e. rogues, cutthroats and so on), the restrictions to their "work" both ICly and OOCly for the game's sake and the best way to RP them without ruining other players' experience.
As suggested by Gonger I'm here to move the discussion on the forum in the hope to make some "Bad guys" guidelines to the good RP.
What do You think?

Greetings

[gonger]

Hi Sirial,

thanks for bringing this topic to the forums.

First and foremost, I believe we do need some bad guys to spice things up a bit.

But in the past playing bad guys has often been interpreted as "behave badly and piss people off", or something similar. This is not what we need.

What we do need are villains with style, class and verve. Villains with a plan they are pursuing, villains who can accept that others will work against them, and adapt to this, also accepting when parts of their plan went wrong.

The best example is the Kor Neka Mansa RP, that went on over months, and hopefully will be picked up again. I mean, Paajah is still on the run, and probably still has an ace or two up her sleeve.

A negative example is the annexation of the Platinum Mine by the Stillwater guild. This had great RP potential in the beginning, but it finally was wasted when some of the Stillwater members only took it as an occasion to kill off as many players as possible, without RPing it at all. (The mine was a PVP area at that time.)

But there is also the problem of how people would react to acts of mischief, to being robbed and blackmailed. Maybe we can find some way of indicating that a character would agree to RP with bad guys. Or just make some kind of rule that agreement / permission should be taken before engaging in acts of mischief.

It will be very interesting to read what others think about bad guys in PlaneShift...

Greetings,

Gonger

[Rigwyn]

This is just my two cents.

Figure out if you are looking to role play or to pvp.  The rules will be different depending on which way you go. Never mix the two.

If you are looking to role play, then just make sure that you keep the character and player well separated. Always treat fellow players as you would friends, but feel free to let your character be a complete bastard towards their characters. Yes, be nice your friends while your character abuses their character liberally. If you do it in an entertaining way, it probably won't be interpreted badly.


It's important that fellow players understand character/player separation. If they do not get this, then they are going to have a hard time coping with your character.

Good luck, and Whisper bless!

[feas]

As someone who does not like to PvP I have some concerns and questions on how this would work.

Concerns:
    Gear gets all beat up.
    Loose all the stuff I have worked hard to get (mine, fish, gather, farm drops...).
    The person will kill me and take all my tria and I am left to the Death Realm taking away my game play time.
   
So with that the following questions:

    How can someone opt out if they have no desire to participate.
    If I did decide to participate would they get everything or a token 10 tria or something trivial so as to not make a financial incentive for them to do so.
    Would a victory be declared at a certain health percentage like what is stated in the PvP guide?
    Would this happen anyplace or only in the wild?
    What are the repercussions for someone who does not follow the rules set?

I understand some people like this aspect of play and I do not wish to dictate to them how to play and enjoy themselves I just want to preserve what I like as well.

looking forward to the suggestions

[cdmoreland]

It is much better to rp a robbery than to PvP and if the victim doesn't want to play along there is no rp.

As a robber, I wouldn't expect more than a few circles from a victim and if they were a poor new player even that would be RPed.

[Sirial]

I agree on the fact that a robbery taking place IC via RP (in case of a previous agreement) is a very good way to make a bad guy, moreover is my opinion that the possibility to make duels via RP and/or fighting is good leaving both parts the choice to participate or not in it, personally I would like to see more RP duels instead of the camping near PVP areas just to be able to kill someone passing by for his own tasks.
The chance to surrender during a duel is a very good way to get out of it without too much damages.

About the bad guys i would like a more strict distinction between the mastermind and the simple rascal, RPed accordingly to the character.
Obviously the problem with the bad guys is much more linked to the fact that players take the single aggression OOCly, this doesn't mean that someone can prosecute someone else just to annoy the player.
Even when there is no agreement between the parts a well RPed "bad guy" can pursue his activity if the other doesn't act in a way to prevent it (i.e. moving toward guards when in the city or running away when in the wilderness) but it's needed that the bad guy's RP starts much long before the other one.
An example:
B= Bad guy (Bandit in this case)
T= Traveller
Setting= wilderness, day, plain view
Incipit "B sees the traveller passing along the road and thinks he has found his next victim"
B carefully studies the target while slowly moves to approach him
-If T after looking at B (i.e. reading his desc) and hopefully receiving a /tell decides to flee than
T feels like being followed (or feels observed) and begins to look around while accelerating his own pace
Now B can decide to pursue the following or give it up...
-if T after looking at B (i.e. reading his desc) and hopefully receiving a /tell decides that B is not dangerous or doesn't think that the risk is too high
T continues through the road relaxed...

Obviously this is just an example but it's my opinion that a bad guy has to make his own RP according to the character, always respecting the other and his tasks (perhaps the traveller is going to a place inside the bandit area of action so he should /tell him about his needs)

I hope to have been clear enough
Greetings

[LigH]

It takes more to be evil than just to act like mad.

Did I write that before?!...

Playing an evil character may require some more strategy, and sometimes even OOC conversations to ensure that IC actions are understood in the correct context.

[Sirial]

Oh well about the "Evil" character I totally agree with you, but not every "bad guy" has to be evil, they could just act that way because IC they had grown up having nothing but their pickpocketing skills to survive so now they doesn't know any other way to survive or their reputation is so bad that returning to the Lawful side of society would be impossible.
The shades of someone's alignment are much more than the classical 9 (Lawful good, chaotic neutral and so on), imho a well RPed character need a consistent past for other to discover, if we relate only to the classical concepts we could end having just flat chars living the moment without evolving.
This means also that a bad guy may have a code of honour or just be the most sick bastard you will ever met, as long as everything is kept IC (OOC everyone should act honourably trying to avoid to ruin the experience of the other players).

[estaga]

One day estaga was making bows over at the rogues camp on ojaroad1 because it was conveniently located to the resources used (wood and couchgrass). While she was there, some "bad guy" came by and made her pay her finest bow for the privilege of working there. The RP during that time was... FREAKING AWESOME!! :-D

Anyway, every once in while estaga will show up there just to see if the rogue "bad guy" is there again... but she comes prepared with some tria to pay the rent on the table now... ;-)

(ahem, bad guy... you know who you are)

Anyway, that particular location is, IMO a gold-mine type of location for "bad guy" interactions that don't necessarily have to turn into PVP. Extortion, blackmail, theft, bullying (especially if done well) would be completely IC for someone who would happen to play in that area. There are probably other areas that would lend themselves to similar kinds of situations (the store houses in Oja ?)

On another day, estaga was on her way into the arena, she goes there to collect clacker legs for making bow strings, make bows, sometimes to cook, or buy fish glue. On this particular day, another "bad guy" (see guard notes in another thread) intimidated estaga into leaving in a hurry... his last words were something like 'now SCRAM!!'. Again... a well played and unexpected "bad guy" to run into.

These are just two examples of what I found to be rather interesting situations to RP in. I submit them for consideration in your deliberations on how/when/etc to be a good "bad guy" and hope to see a bit more in the future.

That being said, "bad guys" need not abound in any given society there are always that 10% (or so... ) who don't quite fit the societal mores... if suddenly 80% of the PS population became "bad guys", that would take some of the fun out of playing... but a well placed one here and there...

- estaga

[Cairn]

People are sensitive.

Playing a bad guy is a lot more work.

[Sirial]

People are sensitive.

That's true, but is not possible to want a RPing community without taking every aspects of the society, if everyone will RP only people holding hands and jumping around this will likely kill the RP imho.
And even if people are sensitive they need to learn the distinction between IC and OOC, or even better between the character and the player.

The RPs mentioned by Estaga are a brilliant example of what it takes to make "bad guys" RP, thank you Estaga for sharing.

[feas]

Edited to prevent spoilers. Ball is in motion.

[Sirial]

That would be a really great idea, the bad would need some companions though, that would make a great group RP for both the parts

[gonger]

So I was talking with someone lastnight about player made quest and a suggestion was a merchant needing help moving supplies to another town. I think this would be a great opportunity for one type of bad guy/gal roleplays. Anyone interested?

A character by the name of Neraden had the very same idea a short while ago, but he has not been seen recently...
If several people have the same RP idea, it is often a good sign, so do keep working on it.

[Jilerel]

Contact me OOCly if you need baddies.