Improved help.xml

[Talad]

I think you are still reading the license wrongly, but I have explained the details above pretty clearly I think.

To go to the point, you can surely dual license it, so release one file under AB license and one under CC (with same content). We will get the AB one and add it to the game, you can keep the CC one and do what you want with it. So can we proceed?

One side point of this is that we should then see if you could really license it under CC as it may contain PS property data to start with.

[Aiwendil]

I'm slowly loosing my patience here. I'm not the one who wants to include this in the official data.

So, I should release it under ABC and CC and then get told a week later that atomic blue thinks that the CC version is void? So basically PS gets it's ABC stuff and I should just keep quit about how I want my work to be used?

Could be pretty interesting anyway to hear the reasons why I can't license my work as CC. The help.xml files is completely written from scratch by me. It isn't based on any previous work from PS. Yes, it might contain words like "Ynnwn" or "Enkidukai" but I seriously hope that nobody believes using words invented by PS will lead to the whole text becoming property of PS. Then it has some indirect xml references to PS art-work. Of course I'm not claiming copy-right on any of that artwork. But the references used in help.xml files are actually image-names that are defined through imagelist.xml. Every skin could have different icons/images there (In fact some of the standard PS icons are replaced by the BoNeeSkin I use as base...with CC content). I really don't think using references in a text will enforce the license of the "linked" content on that text. Otherwise websites would have a little problem...
Now to the last thing...the screeshots I took and included. This one is really a bit unclear as it seems to depends on the content of the screenshot, some nebulous level of creativity displayed there and if the the displayed content was protected at all to start with if a screenshot can be seen as derived work. But even if, what I really doubt in this case, the screenshots must be put under ABC this for sure is not true for the help.xml (and just as a side note..most of the screenshots are actually shots of the BoNeeSkin and not the PS own skin. And as said before...the artwork of that skin is CC). So sorry, I really think I am allowed to put work I created under the license I want it to be.

For the dual licensing. First I will only agree to this if that stupid claim that CC would be invalid for this work will be dropped. But it also raises another question for me. Does that mean than any future additions to the help.xml could be used in the CC version as well? As I said...I don't have much of an clue about multi-licensing. Never considered it for any of my projects before. It's no real option for me if the practical outcome is that only the ABC version is worth maintaining afterwards. Also not really an option if it means that all work done to the CC version can be easily included in the ABC version but not the other way around.

[Talad]

Man, you are making it too complex. I think I have explained the philosophy behind the license, and the possibilities we have. It is as simple as "the license is made to protect the work created for PlaneShift, for the benefit of its players". It seemed to me you were willing to help the project, and so including parts of your help in the game seemed a good idea, that's why I proposed it. Also I thought it could be rewarding for you to have it in game officially, as many people would automatically benefit from it. It's a good piece of work and it's a pity to have it wasted. If you want more clarifications contact me on IRC, which is faster than here.

[Aiwendil]

Updated and new version uploaded.

Main changes:
- Added a (very short) introduction to Crafting
- Did a lot of work on the maps. Included new ones and made the old ones actually useful.
- Removed the always-on-top for the Info-window...it annoyed the hell out of me.

Help.xml: http://minus.com/mp3gA8OaT/2f (Goes to data/help.xml an replaces the original file)

(I hope I don't run into a unicode problem with this one again...otherwise just tell me I messed up again and I will upload another version)

[Talad]

Maps are considered spoiler and so are not allowed.

[miadon]

I understand the no spoiler rule... but over the years and as PS gets older and older I just find it more amusing than anything.

A bit like if a 'Star Wars' forum kept banning spoilers on who luke's father was...  either  people know already.. or the ones who don't know.. don't care or have no interest.

[Aiwendil]

Okay, I give up.

It's no news that the current development version of this contained spoilers. Already the first version I made public contained some "maps". But as I said pretty early in this thread I would have made a spoiler free version available as soon as the basic structure is finished. Hate to quote myself...

Yeah...the spoiler section...was clear that this will cause some...commotion.
I discussed this with several players and of course I can understand if someone doesn't want to use any spoilers at all. But at the same time it appears there are many players who wouldn't mind to have a list of trainers available in game or maps with the positions of NPCs or mining places. So there was right from the start the plan to make one version with spoilers and a second one without them. But as long as this is still heavily worked on I prefer to work on the "full" version. Removing the spoiler-section at the end for a second version is easier than working on two versions already now.

Seems this was no problem until a few days ago...I wonder why.

So now the links to the skin are removed. Great, it's for sure fun to have a help.xml which main advantage should be the included images without the images. And of course I can imagine that someone accidentally downloads two files, puts them in the right directory within the PlaneShift installation, chooses the correct skin in pslaunch and then...OH No...my eyes, Spoilers!!!! Seriously, I never made a secret out of this being still a early development version and that it contains spoilers  for now.

Just wait until Talad find out that the help.xml which is still linked contains a trainer list in the text in it's current form....then that one will get removed too. So sorry, I'm fed up with this PS crap all the time. PM (or ask in IRC) me if you want links to the current version..but sorry, like this I won't put any more effort in this. Looks like it's either Talad's way or no way at all. I wonder who is the loser of this policy.

[Talad]

I removed the files who are breaking the policy. If you post a version without the spoilers it's surely ok.

About in game usage, considering the current file is released as "CC BY-NC-SA" we cannot use it or make modifications to it for inclusion in the game with other pieces which are not following the same license (even if the other pieces where GPL). So we will write our own enhanced help file, unless you release a version which is CC-BY or CC-BY-NC.

[Aiwendil]

Upon request the last release of my help.xml is already GPL licensed...so, as long as you are capable of following that license do whatever you want with it...I have no interest in continuing the work on it anymore..and even less if it gets in PS or not. Every single time I try to do something helpful for other players the PS team (yeah, generalization...I know not all of the team) manages to act stupid. Next I probably will get told that the gui data files I created that are already in the official client are under some restrictive license I never agreed on too. It's all just not worth the hassle...

And as said..better remove the remaining links too as the help.xml file contains horrible spoiler too.

[Talad]

Aiwendil, I'm sorry to see you over-reacting. The no-public-spoilers is a policy we have in place since ever, it's not something we did for you or we are going to change for you. I think your work is very valid and very useful also without the spoiler piece. All the command description and window details can be a good addition to the game. I mentioned this multiple time, praising your work.

If it's released under GPL it's easier, so we don't have to add another license to our codebase. I mentioned CC BY-NC-SA because that's what your original post says in this thread.

I will merge the current changes I did to our help file and part of yours, and add it to the client. I will add your name in the credits of the help as well. My suggestion is to then take that file and update it as per your guild needs. If you want to post it directly on this forum, please remove the spoilers first.

[Aiwendil]

Yeah, I changed the license for the last version as I said here some time ago GPL would be no problem for me and some people found it more appropriate for this work (And I have to agree with them).

And I'm well aware of the No-Spoiler stupidity around here...but the first post of this thread was made three months ago and the version there already contained the spoilers. It's not that I post any spoilers directly here in this forum...to see them people have to put a lot of effort in it...far more than joining a guild (Or visiting some other public webpages).

For merging...feel free to use whatever you find appropriate for an in-game version. That's what the license is for...as long as the helpfile remains GPL all modifications are fine. And I don't care about being mentioned in any credits...not the first work of me that made it in the public client. If you want to mention someone in the credits mention LigH and Minks for helping to test this, Bonifarzia and Neeno for their skin and weltall and Rlydontknow for answering technical questions. Also the people in #psde were very helpful with answering questions. I mentioned all those in the file but I guess the "Thanks" page won't make it in the client. But I will stop working on this. I won't go through all the effort to maintain two different versions just to satisfy some stupid No-spoiler policy and be able to get feedback here in the forums for a game I don't even play.

[Talad]

Part of the help has been integrated in game, it will be available at the next update. Thanks for your contributions.